edit: thinking about it more. You just need to be faster than that person can react so you might not need to be 20x faster than the person in order to statue blitz them
Misconceptions about VS. Debating
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Blade
Peace
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cuz i asked about it, it has good info, after all
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It is true, it's damn true.
I need to get started on my next part with WoG and Death of an Author today.
Derpmaster9000
Balor Béimnech
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This was probably brought up already, but the No Limits Fallacy cropping up really grinds my gears, and shows that people just don't give a shit and couldn't care less about why showings matter.
A prime example of this, which is recent and very well-known, is Yeehaw, AKA Yhwach and The Almighty ability. Can see into all possible futures and even after death, apparently, Yhwach can use it to come back and give himself the best possible outcome against his opponent, which a number of Bleach fanboys take to mean he can rewrite anything and can always score a W, despite that NOT being how the ability was ever presented in the manga. It had clear limits shown, and even if it was never defeated in the manga, and Yhwach simply won, that still wouldn't mean he could just snag an easy W from anyone with that ability.
He, just like anyone else with a seemingly 'broken' hax, can only be gone off of what it has SHOWN, not what the person THINKS it could hypothetically do, but has no proof of. Yhwach can solo his verse(He can't, but lets just say he can)? Great, his hax power is enough to overcome continental, potentially planet-level folks to get a win. Now, how would his ability fare for him against a galaxy buster? Someone who could one-shot or warp a universe to their heart's desire? Does he have any feats of getting over that with The Almighty? No? Then guess what, the best outcome his ability can afford him, is STILL gonna involve him getting steam-rolled, no matter your head-canon, because the showings just AREN'T there.
No character, no matter how busted their ability seems, and is within their setting, should have it treated like its something that could get them a W regardless of their opponent from another setting, where for all said fan knows, an ability that they preach to be 'OP' could be something more commonplace within the other character's setting, or that said character has dealt with something similar or more potent in showings.
I don't care how great someone's future sight is, for another example, or maybe time-based shenanigans either, if their opponent is so much faster than them that they get blitzed before the synapses in their brain even have the CHANCE to start firing off with a response, and they're dead before they even know what the fuck just happened.
A prime example of this, which is recent and very well-known, is Yeehaw, AKA Yhwach and The Almighty ability. Can see into all possible futures and even after death, apparently, Yhwach can use it to come back and give himself the best possible outcome against his opponent, which a number of Bleach fanboys take to mean he can rewrite anything and can always score a W, despite that NOT being how the ability was ever presented in the manga. It had clear limits shown, and even if it was never defeated in the manga, and Yhwach simply won, that still wouldn't mean he could just snag an easy W from anyone with that ability.
He, just like anyone else with a seemingly 'broken' hax, can only be gone off of what it has SHOWN, not what the person THINKS it could hypothetically do, but has no proof of. Yhwach can solo his verse(He can't, but lets just say he can)? Great, his hax power is enough to overcome continental, potentially planet-level folks to get a win. Now, how would his ability fare for him against a galaxy buster? Someone who could one-shot or warp a universe to their heart's desire? Does he have any feats of getting over that with The Almighty? No? Then guess what, the best outcome his ability can afford him, is STILL gonna involve him getting steam-rolled, no matter your head-canon, because the showings just AREN'T there.
No character, no matter how busted their ability seems, and is within their setting, should have it treated like its something that could get them a W regardless of their opponent from another setting, where for all said fan knows, an ability that they preach to be 'OP' could be something more commonplace within the other character's setting, or that said character has dealt with something similar or more potent in showings.
I don't care how great someone's future sight is, for another example, or maybe time-based shenanigans either, if their opponent is so much faster than them that they get blitzed before the synapses in their brain even have the CHANCE to start firing off with a response, and they're dead before they even know what the fuck just happened.
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People considering everything to be hyperbole. Like its good to keep an open mind about statements and lines cause there not always entirely true, but then there just ignoring whats being said.
For example the most used case for 'hyperbole' is a character being stated to move as fast as light. Now most of the time this can be the case, like Shalltear in Overlord being said to move at the speed of light being only a one-off statement that gets contradicted by feats after V3.
But then you stuff like Reid Astrea from Re:zero moving at lightspeed, where he isn't just said to move at light, he demonstrates it by cutting a Jiwald spell, which is a Yang(light) spell, said to be white light, and moves at the speed of light.
Meaning that it isn't a one-off statement without context. It is a statement with multiple supporting statements and a feat.
The same thing in black clover where light magic is explicitly stated to be lightspeed and you have Yami saying that he can move faster than light.
For example the most used case for 'hyperbole' is a character being stated to move as fast as light. Now most of the time this can be the case, like Shalltear in Overlord being said to move at the speed of light being only a one-off statement that gets contradicted by feats after V3.
But then you stuff like Reid Astrea from Re:zero moving at lightspeed, where he isn't just said to move at light, he demonstrates it by cutting a Jiwald spell, which is a Yang(light) spell, said to be white light, and moves at the speed of light.
Meaning that it isn't a one-off statement without context. It is a statement with multiple supporting statements and a feat.
The same thing in black clover where light magic is explicitly stated to be lightspeed and you have Yami saying that he can move faster than light.
Randomdude
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Eh to be more clear with this it's actually braine who had his attack mistranslated in the earlier translations of the novels as attacking at the speed of light with his martial arts. Shalltear caught said blade which is where I assume the idea shalltear is somehow related to it comes from.
The statement is even more patently ridiculous with context, even ignoring the blatant mistranslation brain is a level thirty character, he at best might be able to parry some bullets based on the death warrior. The idea someone of his level could do anything at "Light speed" is ludicrous. (Anyone in overlord moving at that speed in overlord would be ridiculous within the context of the novels but braine in particular is probably the worst possible character to make such a claim with)
Paxton
Marvelous
I mean, something twice as fast as you irl wouldn't be entirely imperceptible, so the 20x probably is correct.
I don't remember why the math specifically results in that number but w/e
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Going to add something to this,
in English using hyperbole uses like or similar before the phrase so people get that its hyperbole.
Idk if japanese language has something similar to those words though.
Flowering Knight
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Popping into this thread to post something a lot of other forums tend to misunderstand (while being related to the previously mentioned hyperbole topic) is high-end feats =/= outliers.
When a series gets new feats it's bound to get ones that will eventually upgrade it. Sometimes it'll have only one or two feats of that level and everything else will simply scale to them. Superman being a planetbuster makes sense since he has dozens upon dozens of feats of him being at that level, so when he gets a feat that puts him even higher, it makes sense, since he's no stranger to cosmic feats. Superman having solar system to galaxy and even universal feats makes sense since not only are there multiple feats of those levels that he scales to, but they're not that far above each other. (yeah I know there are massive dc gaps between them all that's not the point of what I'm saying lol)
An outlier is something so far above the rest of the verse's feats that also never has anything even remotely close to it happen again. A recent example would be the black hole feat that occured in JJK, which while there is some debate on it even being a real black hole (though it was stated it would destroy the world), the real issue is simple: there's just no other feats on that level in the series. The series has always been sitting at MCB/town levels and then suddenly getting a possible planet level feat is a bit much. If another feat occurs which is on that level? Then we can start talking upgrades.
I bring this up because this is often used not just as a method of downplaying verses, with places like reddit viewing 90% of Hulk's feats as "consistent outliers"(????) and limiting him to being only city level. Or characters like Spider-Man being only wall/small building level and supersonic because his higher-end feats are "inconsistent". On the other hand you have people taking the opposite route and wanking series based on outliers, such as the aforementioned JJK black hole, or more infamously Mundus creating a universe in Devil May Cry (which, even if it wasn't retconned into being an illusion, and even if it was a real universe, would be so far above any other feat in the series that it falls under prime outlier material).
I even deal with this on my own time since I know people IRL who try to wank Overwatch of all verses with this, saying things like "lol double jump physics makes Genji city level" or "Zarya's black holes makes everyone planetary and FTL" despite the otherwise best feats in the verse putting them at building level and hypersonic
When a series gets new feats it's bound to get ones that will eventually upgrade it. Sometimes it'll have only one or two feats of that level and everything else will simply scale to them. Superman being a planetbuster makes sense since he has dozens upon dozens of feats of him being at that level, so when he gets a feat that puts him even higher, it makes sense, since he's no stranger to cosmic feats. Superman having solar system to galaxy and even universal feats makes sense since not only are there multiple feats of those levels that he scales to, but they're not that far above each other. (yeah I know there are massive dc gaps between them all that's not the point of what I'm saying lol)
An outlier is something so far above the rest of the verse's feats that also never has anything even remotely close to it happen again. A recent example would be the black hole feat that occured in JJK, which while there is some debate on it even being a real black hole (though it was stated it would destroy the world), the real issue is simple: there's just no other feats on that level in the series. The series has always been sitting at MCB/town levels and then suddenly getting a possible planet level feat is a bit much. If another feat occurs which is on that level? Then we can start talking upgrades.
I bring this up because this is often used not just as a method of downplaying verses, with places like reddit viewing 90% of Hulk's feats as "consistent outliers"(????) and limiting him to being only city level. Or characters like Spider-Man being only wall/small building level and supersonic because his higher-end feats are "inconsistent". On the other hand you have people taking the opposite route and wanking series based on outliers, such as the aforementioned JJK black hole, or more infamously Mundus creating a universe in Devil May Cry (which, even if it wasn't retconned into being an illusion, and even if it was a real universe, would be so far above any other feat in the series that it falls under prime outlier material).
I even deal with this on my own time since I know people IRL who try to wank Overwatch of all verses with this, saying things like "lol double jump physics makes Genji city level" or "Zarya's black holes makes everyone planetary and FTL" despite the otherwise best feats in the verse putting them at building level and hypersonic