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Opinions on Tales game incident.

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This lickspittle wants "input" but shuts down any suggestion he doesn't like and says deal with it.

:mjlol

Can't tell if he's legitimately daft and doesn't realize the futility of this or he just wants to try and herd people into a predetermined conclusion. Probably a bit of both.
 
1) The posts in question you linked isn't the kindest exchange but it's also not like, terrible, and I think if this is what you're digging up then it probably evidences overall improvement of our conduct if this is as bad as it gets.
I get that things have improved, but I still think we need to be more mindful in our exchanges to really move forward.

This suggestion is patently terrible. It's like you're trying to kill your own traffic and activity. Like why lol.
Again, it was simply a suggestion, and I’m not hearing any suggestions from you or anyone else in this thread, aside from personal reservations about any of the things said up until this point.

3) Evidently nobody is "taking out the trash themselves", otherwise these posts wouldn't be as readily accessible as they are would they? Blatant double standard.
They aren’t taken care of in this section specifically because they are immediately shut down as soon as they are reported and resolved as a “non-issue.” @Grammaton has done this before, and it really didn’t solve anything; it only forced a player to leave the forum. If you honestly believe the OBD doesn’t take out their own trash, then you haven’t really spent much time outside of this section, other than doing a bit of digging for receipts like I did.

To put it in perspective, when posts are reported in the OBD now, @Darth Nihilus or @Masterblack06 handle the situation and do what they feel is appropriate according to the severity of the issue.

To add to my point, I may not be entirely involved in everything that goes on in this forum, but I do take note when it starts to become a pattern, and we talk internally about these issues. Do these issues resolve themselves over time? Sure, but that’s mostly due to the fact that the damage was already done and the person or parties involved have gone elsewhere.
Let's put this another way. Aurelian is the person in question being complained about for his conduct, and in response to this, instead of him being punished, everyone else gets punished and threatened with more rules and guidelines.

This is particularly nauseating because if someone sees the above, why would they expect said new rules and guidelines to apply equally, if an admin can already shrug off said guidelines? You wanna lean more seriously into punishing conduct in games but you've already kind of shit on this premise by not putting the boots down on Aurelian. You can't have it both ways, either he gets a slap on the wrist and you accept the occasional bickering (preferred) or you can go full totalian dictator. But you can't have it both ways.
Dude, we have moderators here, so why haven't they spoken up about his punishment for his actions unless I'm totally blind here? I just said if y'all want to punish him for his actions and he can't play ranked games for a while, then I'm all for it. It's not like we haven't punished players similarly due to their actions, but the same needs to be said and done about other players too, especially staff members. So if you're bringing double standards into this, then it's the same way for me in this situation.
Are we censoring **** now??
Idk what’s going on lol, it’s weird

This isn’t the first time I’ve had to address stuff like this where apparently swearing is against the rules all of a sudden
This isn't and wasn't the issue; we were addressing the severity of the profane words being used, not them being used at all.

If y'all took the time to read through my recent tl;dr post, you'd see that I suggested creating a separate thread to address what profane words should and should not be allowed on our forum. I also added a point about simply allowing the visibility of such words to just logged-in users only. There should also be an option somewhere to allow users to enable censoring words themselves, and if there isn't, we can simply hire the same add-on developer I've been working with recently to add such a feature and avoid potential triggers for individuals going forward. Especially if y'all want to continue calling others cunts and whatnot, and the majority of the player base is okay with having such an environment. Like @Ultra said to me in his post, and I’m reiterating it in my own words, y'all can't have it both ways.

Ral is an Anglophobe

Based tbh
The English shouldn't have YEETED my ancestors from their own land! I will never forgive them for such disrespect... :sohard
tl;dr

Be more concise
If you have a problem with how tl;dr my posts are, I get it, but I’m not going to change how I post for anyone lol. I’m just saying what I feel needs to be said, especially since people had a hard time following my posts a while back. Now that I’m trying to express my thoughts more freely, I feel like my posting style is still being seen as an issue.

Why is this even a discussion about the contact of the Section when it was Aurelian causing the problems anyway?? He's not one of ours he's one of yours
Because this sort of thing has always been a split issue among smaller groups of people in this section, and it’s not just solely regarding what happened in the Tales game with what Fang said or insinuated. Honestly, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop instigating and let us hash this out instead of trying to add more fuel to the fire, like others have been doing so far.

Fang and Ratchet are both staff members, so it makes no sense for them to ignore each other and be unable to get along while being on the same team. That's not how a 'team' works, and it’s counterproductive, especially when we already have a hard time getting other staff members to contribute to internal discussions.

The reason we didn't discuss this internally further is that this isn't just a one-off instance of a dispute; it stems from previous pent-up drama and discontent with either member. To put it simply, I have always been on the side of providing full transparency, and I will always do so, with all due respect.

@Poyser @Ultra, I’ll reply to your other posts a little later tonight, so my apologies if it seems like I didn’t get to those, but I will as soon as I get the chance to play catchup lol.
 
:heston

Do you not see the irony of accusing me of being some no life loser while getting pissy your AUTHORITY as a forum moderator does not yield immediate respect and deference? You're a joke. You opened this thread to get "opinions" and then are mad I'm "complaining". Brilliant.

Actually I was annoyed you're too busy being insecure for some reason and caring about what I do and what my profile looks like to answer a question.

You are out here guffawing like a highschooler with his fellow soon to be dropout friends fam.

If I cared about authority I'd be throwing it around.

I don't know you, don't take jabs at me like I do. For some reason you confuse being respectful with adoration. All you have to do is be normal and not act like you're a sad 60 year old drunken divorcee in a bar.
 
What punishments were dished out for the posts ultra quoted, by the OBD mods, just out of interest?
 
Actually I was annoyed you're too busy being insecure for some reason and caring about what I do and what my profile looks like to answer a question.

You are out here guffawing like a highschooler with his fellow soon to be dropout friends fam.

If I cared about authority I'd be throwing it around.

I don't know you, don't take jabs at me like I do. For some reason you confuse being respectful with adoration. All you have to do is be normal and not act like you're a sad 60 year old drunken divorcee in a bar.

As far as acting "normally" goes, may I remind you that you're currently entertaining the batshit insane suggestion that the abbreviation "CP" is a charge of being a ****phile.

Which is already silly enough, but in addition to this, you have in this very thread admitted your forum avatar comes from digital pornography. And you don't see a problem with this, but the above deserves scrutiny, apparently.

:tupac
 
I get that things have improved, but I still think we need to be more mindful in our exchanges to really move forward.


Again, it was simply a suggestion, and I’m not hearing any suggestions from you or anyone else in this thread, aside from personal reservations about any of the things said up until this point.


They aren’t taken care of in this section specifically because they are immediately shut down as soon as they are reported and resolved as a “non-issue.” @Grammaton has done this before, and it really didn’t solve anything; it only forced a player to leave the forum. If you honestly believe the OBD doesn’t take out their own trash, then you haven’t really spent much time outside of this section, other than doing a bit of digging for receipts like I did.

To put it in perspective, when posts are reported in the OBD now, @Darth Nihilus or @Masterblack06 handle the situation and do what they feel is appropriate according to the severity of the issue.

To add to my point, I may not be entirely involved in everything that goes on in this forum, but I do take note when it starts to become a pattern, and we talk internally about these issues. Do these issues resolve themselves over time? Sure, but that’s mostly due to the fact that the damage was already done and the person or parties involved have gone elsewhere.

Dude, we have moderators here, so why haven't they spoken up about his punishment for his actions unless I'm totally blind here? I just said if y'all want to punish him for his actions and he can't play ranked games for a while, then I'm all for it. It's not like we haven't punished players similarly due to their actions, but the same needs to be said and done about other players too, especially staff members. So if you're bringing double standards into this, then it's the same way for me in this situation.


This isn't and wasn't the issue; we were addressing the severity of the profane words being used, not them being used at all.

If y'all took the time to read through my recent tl;dr post, you'd see that I suggested creating a separate thread to address what profane words should and should not be allowed on our forum. I also added a point about simply allowing the visibility of such words to just logged-in users only. There should also be an option somewhere to allow users to enable censoring words themselves, and if there isn't, we can simply hire the same add-on developer I've been working with recently to add such a feature and avoid potential triggers for individuals going forward. Especially if y'all want to continue calling others cunts and whatnot, and the majority of the player base is okay with having such an environment. Like @Ultra said to me in his post, and I’m reiterating it in my own words, y'all can't have it both ways.


The English shouldn't have YEETED my ancestors from their own land! I will never forgive them for such disrespect... :sohard

If you have a problem with how tl;dr my posts are, I get it, but I’m not going to change how I post for anyone lol. I’m just saying what I feel needs to be said, especially since people had a hard time following my posts a while back. Now that I’m trying to express my thoughts more freely, I feel like my posting style is still being seen as an issue.


Because this sort of thing has always been a split issue among smaller groups of people in this section, and it’s not just solely regarding what happened in the Tales game with what Fang said or insinuated. Honestly, I’d appreciate it if you’d stop instigating and let us hash this out instead of trying to add more fuel to the fire, like others have been doing so far.

Fang and Ratchet are both staff members, so it makes no sense for them to ignore each other and be unable to get along while being on the same team. That's not how a 'team' works, and it’s counterproductive, especially when we already have a hard time getting other staff members to contribute to internal discussions.

The reason we didn't discuss this internally further is that this isn't just a one-off instance of a dispute; it stems from previous pent-up drama and discontent with either member. To put it simply, I have always been on the side of providing full transparency, and I will always do so, with all due respect.

@Poyser @Ultra, I’ll reply to your other posts a little later tonight, so my apologies if it seems like I didn’t get to those, but I will as soon as I get the chance to play catchup lol.

People saying mean words to each other doesnt need third party intervention 95% of the t8me. Sooner we get away from that mentality, happier well all be.

Im not going to reply to the rest of the stuff youve said to/about me, but you start diagnosing my mind again and were going to fall out. I hope thats the end of it
 
It’s no coincidence that even T-Pein noticed this has been an issue for a while, and Emil brought it up in the Tales of Arise game too. @Emil, were you joking here or were you serious?
i am just pointing out how ive seen them complain about troupes or tribal feuds yet they r clearly spiting, unwilling to work with certain players based on who they r (for completely out of game reasons), and supporting/normalizing such spite behaviors. They don't think this stuff is bad for the game so i am telling them to not complain if it gets done to them in the future by whoever, and overall the game will remain divided with silly tribal feuds.
 
@Ral dont think u can stop people from cursing. ppl do it all the time irl. freedom of speech etc.. plus they think it makes them look cool and badass. we don't have laws that arrest people for cursing either. im personally of the opinion that a bunch of letters that someone says online behind a screen shouldnt affect who you are or what you think of yourself, but everyone reacts differently to this stuff. i think with time people try to become more considerate in knowing which players they can or cant curse, or use specific slurs against. like in the past game people were more respectful and considerate toward junk after she established her boundaries. every player can try to do the same. everyone's boundaries will be different and we'll get to learn them with time.

just let's not go full MU and use the lowest possible boundary and apply it to everyone. its gonna make the game very vanilla in a human sense
 
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In all seriousness though @Ral it does seem like we are on different wavelengths in terms of what the expectations of conduct are. I was wondering if it might not be somewhat of a solution if you basically gave the upper tier of control of this section over to @Dr. Watson and you yourself focus on other areas of the forum? Not trying to cause issues with you here, just think you might benefit from not being exposed to it and Watson does seem to understand both us and the game itself a lot better
I'm okay with that solution so long as she addresses issues and concerns from all parties involved, which she seems to be doing here on top of adding her own personal reservations.

Like, it’s not been quoted in here but during the latter half of the most recent game, me and Ekko apologised to each other and worked together. We are not each other’s favourite person but it’s not like we want to be at each other’s throats. Me and Ultra have talked on discord etc and both understand that there are no issues there. As far as I’m concerned, these issues are resolved.
Tbh that’s all I needed to hear lol.

I know I come off strong from the get-go, but if you had told me that sooner, I wouldn’t have brought those scenarios up. Admittedly, I did let my mind float around a bit, pondering if the issues you mentioned were resolved, and I should have asked myself before posting prematurely with my own assumptions. Honestly speaking, I also got caught up in my frustration with how the culture of Mafia works on our forum. I will try to be a bit more perceptive and understanding of both sides going forward, but I’d also like us to address the other issues I mentioned previously about how we handle in-game reports and what should be done to appease both parties if either or both are at fault.

So long as y’all are cool and so are others, we can continue having fun and move forward with the plans I have in store for the Mafia section. I dropped like three beans on hiring a developer to create a Mafia addon for us here, as well as one we can share with other communities that also run XenForo and similar Mafia setups. I’m going to make a new thread about it soon and invite the developer to gather feedback from y’all about what features make the most sense to add, so look out for that!

Additionally, I’ve been thinking about creating a centralized leaderboard and a way for other Mafia communities to connect and see who the top players are, sign-ups going around, etc. But it all starts with figuring out a solution to make things a bit more transparent about how we conduct Mafia games here. Once established players, and even new players, understand what they are getting into when they play ranked games here, I believe we won’t have many issues going forward, if at all, outside of the regular in-game and post-game drama that occurs. Some of that gets resolved, while some moves into newer games, and the latter is something I’d like to eventually address because I feel it throws off the balance and fun for even people like me who see Mafia as a way to test the art of deception and teamwork.

What punishments were dished out for the posts ultra quoted, by the OBD mods, just out of interest?
I'll have to get back to you on that, but I can see where you and @Ultra stand regarding the double standards in the OBD and this section as a whole. The SEO-related issue is a done deal that I resolved earlier, so I’m pleased to say we can move past that part that I keep bringing up when I have my reservations about things I notice while lurking or being active during games here lol.

As a form of a peace treaty, I’m going to sign up for the next game to see if I can have a bit of fun this time and learn a thing or two to apply my knowledge toward the development of the Mafia addon for the forum.
 
I'm okay with that solution so long as she addresses issues and concerns from all parties involved, which she seems to be doing here on top of adding her own personal reservations.


Tbh that’s all I needed to hear lol.

I know I come off strong from the get-go, but if you had told me that sooner, I wouldn’t have brought those scenarios up. Admittedly, I did let my mind float around a bit, pondering if the issues you mentioned were resolved, and I should have asked myself before posting prematurely with my own assumptions. Honestly speaking, I also got caught up in my frustration with how the culture of Mafia works on our forum. I will try to be a bit more perceptive and understanding of both sides going forward, but I’d also like us to address the other issues I mentioned previously about how we handle in-game reports and what should be done to appease both parties if either or both are at fault.

So long as y’all are cool and so are others, we can continue having fun and move forward with the plans I have in store for the Mafia section. I dropped like three beans on hiring a developer to create a Mafia addon for us here, as well as one we can share with other communities that also run XenForo and similar Mafia setups. I’m going to make a new thread about it soon and invite the developer to gather feedback from y’all about what features make the most sense to add, so look out for that!

Additionally, I’ve been thinking about creating a centralized leaderboard and a way for other Mafia communities to connect and see who the top players are, sign-ups going around, etc. But it all starts with figuring out a solution to make things a bit more transparent about how we conduct Mafia games here. Once established players, and even new players, understand what they are getting into when they play ranked games here, I believe we won’t have many issues going forward, if at all, outside of the regular in-game and post-game drama that occurs. Some of that gets resolved, while some moves into newer games, and the latter is something I’d like to eventually address because I feel it throws off the balance and fun for even people like me who see Mafia as a way to test the art of deception and teamwork.


I'll have to get back to you on that, but I can see where you and @Ultra stand regarding the double standards in the OBD and this section as a whole. The SEO-related issue is a done deal that I resolved earlier, so I’m pleased to say we can move past that part that I keep bringing up when I have my reservations about things I notice while lurking or being active during games here lol.

As a form of a peace treaty, I’m going to sign up for the next game to see if I can have a bit of fun this time and learn a thing or two to apply my knowledge toward the development of the Mafia addon for the forum.
For what it’s worth, we also don’t really want issues carrying over from one game to the next and we don’t really want long standing issues to be blighting games etc. Sometimes it will slip through ofc but generally that’s why we discuss it after the game and is also why some post-games can get a bit heated whilst people hash it out. Most of the time if it’s getting a bit too heated on here then we will try and move it to discord so that it’s at least being done privately. We will perhaps try and make this transition happen more quickly going forwards
 
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i am just pointing out how ive seen them complain about troupes or tribal feuds yet they r clearly spiting, unwilling to work with certain players based on who they r (for completely out of game reasons), and supporting/normalizing such spite behaviors. They don't think this stuff is bad for the game so i am telling them to not complain if it gets done to them in the future by whoever, and overall the game will remain divided with silly tribal feuds.
That's perfectly fine, especially since you made your stance on spiting in-game abundantly clear. If players see it as a non-issue, then that’s on them, but they shouldn’t ruin the game for others just because they feel a certain way about another player or how they are being treated overall.

I’m hoping that through us breaking bread in this thread, we can create a kick-ass queueing system in the near future where players can choose to avoid certain individuals and get matched up with players they can actually work with. It makes no sense to have two players on the same team who have ongoing beef with one another, as it compromises the integrity of the game tbh. This could happen or be overlooked because the host(s) either 1) didn’t know that two or more players had issues with each other or 2) were just too lazy to sort these troubled players into different groups.

It would also be beneficial in the future if the native warning system here could automatically modkill players based on their performance or lack thereof. We can discuss all these ideas in the new Mafia addon thread I’m brewing up, but I also hope that y’all provide feedback on the features I’ve thought of based on what I already know about how Mafia works. From that point, I can easily relay y'all's input back to the developer so he can put in some work for us!!
@Ral dont think u can stop people from cursing. ppl do it all the time irl. freedom of speech etc.. plus they think it makes them look cool and badass. we don't have laws that arrest people for cursing either. im personally of the opinion that a bunch of letters that someone says online behind a screen shouldnt affect who you are or what you think of yourself, but everyone reacts differently to this stuff. i think with time people try to become more considerate in knowing which players they can or cant curse, or use specific slurs against. like in the past game people were more respectful and considerate toward junk after she established her boundaries. every player can try to do the same. everyone's boundaries will be different and we'll get to learn them with time.

just let's not go full MU and use the lowest possible boundary and apply it to everyone. its gonna make the game very vanilla in a human sense
:bjpenn

Well said, Kekko! I wholeheartedly agree with that last bit. Consequentially, you’ve also addressed my main concern in fewer paragraphs than I used in my previous explanation, while also smacking and losing keys on my keyboard with my long-winded posts lol. I’m also working on the tl;dr part, but I can’t help it right now; it’s just how I’ve been doing things lately. However, if people need me to use fewer words, I’ll try to accommodate that going forward and keep my replies to a maximum of two paragraphs to be fair to myself and others lol.
Report post > quick staff discussion in report to assess the situation at hand > YEET or NOT YEET > RESOLVED ✅

Ultimately, the last resort for any issues on the forum will be met swiftly by my fist, respectfully speaking :onepunchpepe:
For what it’s worth, we also don’t really want issues carrying over from one game to the next and we don’t really want long standing issues to be blighting games etc. Sometimes it will slip through ofc but generally that’s why we discuss it after the game and is also why some post-games can get a bit heated whilst people hash it out. Most of the time if it’s getting a bit too heated on here then we will try and move it to discord so that it’s at least being done privately. We will perhaps try and make this transition happen more quickly going forwards
If we can also make the squashing of beef more transparent and obvious, especially in this section, I believe it would help me temper my expectations and frustrations regarding posts I catch wind of whether they are reported or I come across them out of pure curiosity while observing how different games and setups work here, as well as Mafia as a whole.

Btw, we can keep this thread open if y'all want, just to give others a chance to chime in on any concerns or issues they’ve had themselves. Otherwise, we can just continue these discussions in the general Mafia chat thread tbh lol
 
If y'all are okay with me locking this thread, let me know by liking this post.

Ultimately, I hope the time we spent here bore some fruit, and we can keep moving forward from these types of issues :catwink

I also want to apologize to @Ratchet for putting your concerns about what happened in the Tales game between you and @Aurelian out in the open like this. I meant no malice by it, but it ultimately became a topic of concern for me. I wanted to address it from a perspective outside of that PM because I didn't know how to appease both parties in determining a solution that worked for both of you in that scenario.

With that said, let’s get back to it and try to have some fun in the next game!!

:lfg:lfg:lfg:lfg:lfg:lfg
 
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Thread summary for those of you following along or are just now viewing this thread:
  1. Future use of words deemed unacceptable in this section (and society in general) will now follow a three-strike warning system. This will start as a trial here and could lead to expulsion from game threads, or an optional ban from future games for a set time, or even permanently if it comes to that.
  2. @Dr. Watson will oversee conduct and operations in this section, staying neutral in any drama or issues. Advisors and Moderators will follow her lead. If she designates someone else, they’ll act as an ambassador, representing both sides fairly.
  3. I'll look into why @Ultra was demoted, but I believe it was a personal choice. If not, I’ll confirm with him and staff.
  4. The Ranked Mafia section will continue as usual, but we’ll focus more on handling players sensitive to insults and personal attacks. If things get heated and hosts or mods don’t step in, @Dr. Watson will, with her eight-inch Admin heels, remind folks that poking and prodding is also not allowed here under any circumstances :catwink
  5. We’ll also address similar issues in the OBD, where things can get unnecessarily vulgar. While we don’t heavily restrict language there, we’ll work on toning it down as part of the improvements we're making across this section and the forum as a whole.
  6. @Poyser and @Ultra were just taking the piss out of each other, which is something they typically do, even behind the scenes here :cat
  7. @Poyser and @Emil have resolved their beef from the Tales game. Some of us missed those posts because the game was moving so fast, so we only saw what we could while skimming through the thread.
  8. The Mafia add-on development is moving forward. I’ll make a separate thread so y'all can give feedback to the developer I’m paying to work on this big add-on, which is gonna be a major glow-up for our forum and maybe others too.
  9. I’m also planning a universal leaderboard and Mafia queue system for future partner forums to connect to. I’ll address that in a separate thread later.
  10. I probably missed a few things, but it's fine, my hands are too tired from all the tl;dr I wrote in this thread, plus all the mouse clicking and smacking these new keys I just put on my keyboard lol.

It also looks like the majority has voted to lynch this thread, so that makes it a hammer, right? :cathehe:

/thread (officially lol)
 
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