Transformers feats/discussion

[OtherGalaxy]

Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Primacron has only been seen in the Primax Alpha streams, though he has been referenced in others. Are there other versions of Primacron across the Multiverse or is there anything Multiversally Singular in his nature? Characters of some universes have sworn by him. Is their something greater to him on a universal/Multiversal scale than just being a scientist? How is his "creation" of Unicron to be understood? Did he simply build a physical body for Unicron's Dark Essence to manifest within?
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A: Dear Primal Person,

Primacron has been observed in Malgus streams as well. However, there is nothing of the singularity about him. Separate instances of him pop up occasionally, just as multiple instances of you exist throughout the multiverse. He does indeed possess a powerful intellect, so much so that some versions of him are able to construct that dimension's Unicron. Generally speaking, if a Unicron is built by him, it is not a part of the greater phenomena, though perhaps Primacron's mighty psyche is so in-tune with the cosmos that he draws inspiration from the nightmares of other realities.

The AVP bit about Primacronian Unicrons not being Singularities of course was published several months after Cloud's prose stories but there are two points I want to raise about this
1. I'm not sure translations of everything going on in Cloud were even available at the time that AVP bit was written?
2. Cloud is clearly establishing a Primacron created Unicron as a multiversal god in their story regardless of this

It's similar to why I initially considered Omega Point's storyline to take priority except this time there's no alternate universe business to muck it up at all.

 

[grillmaster]

This is technically talking about Primus but Ichikawa says the Grand Black Hole replaced Primus' "all-dimensional existence" which would of course make the GBH "all-dimensional", but I had some wires crossed and didn't remember the context 100%

wasnt this ramjets plan in balancing act actually

 

[Optimus Prime 654]

Something else really interesting on that note


And from Cloud's last chapter


Cloud is one of the few, if not the only, stories I'm aware of where characters both travel to the G1 cartoon timeline - American and the G1 cartoon timeline - Japan. In a very weird roundabout way, this would mean their multiversal Unicron statements would apply to both the JG1 and Sunbow timelines....

Although some events do differ from the main american G1 media. Optimus merged eventually with Vector Sigma, but came back in season 4, but the Japanese media proves Optimus being ressurected to Star Convoy and Headmasters or Masterforce cartoons even differ. Still despite all those, Superobot Lifeforms and the G1 cartoon including the original 84 and Beast Wars mirror alot and plus it is arguable most Cartoon G1 and BW even scale to their JG1 feats.

This is technically talking about Primus but Ichikawa says the Grand Black Hole replaced Primus' "all-dimensional existence" which would of course make the GBH "all-dimensional", but I had some wires crossed and didn't remember the context 100%

And from the final Cloud chapter


This seems like textbook singularity stuff honestly. Given Cloud's writers were aware of stories like Alternity (where Vector Primeis featured) I think it's safe to assume they were working off some of the western cosmic lore like Hirofumi Ichikawa was in both Alternity and World of the Transformers. It just doesn't really make sense to me to treat such an explicitly multiversal version of the character as a non-singularity instance.

Looking back to this, this is I think another evidence on Sunbow being a singularity, but is weird that AvP somehow retconned it which is weird.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

wasnt this ramjets plan in balancing act actually

Yeah I assumed he was directly referencing that (makes sense given he had Nemesis show up in Alternity after he gets captured at the end of Balancing Act), though it's a bit odd he speaks of it as though it was actually successful?

Although some events do differ from the main american G1 media. Optimus merged eventually with Vector Sigma, but came back in season 4, but the Japanese media proves Optimus being ressurected to Star Convoy and Headmasters or Masterforce cartoons even differ. Still despite all those, Superobot Lifeforms and the G1 cartoon including the original 84 and Beast Wars mirror alot and plus it is arguable most Cartoon G1 and BW even scale to their JG1 feats.

Looking back to this, this is I think another evidence on Sunbow being a singularity, but is weird that AvP somehow retconned it which is weird.

In this case I think it's helpful that Cloud is trying to be very specific about their timelines being the originals at least, so even with some discrepancies we know OG001 isn't a branch of the G1 cartoon timeline for example, because the story tells us it's the original.

I personally treat AVP as very useful and extremely accurate but if a plot point contradicts it in a way that we can't reconcile at all then I go with the established story beat. In this case, Cloud is stating a Primacron made Unicron is still pandimensional and exists beyond spacetime, and Megatron's motivations for trying to kill him in Cloud make zero sense if Unicron is anything but that.

Vector did say generally not "100% of the time" though

From what I'm seeing the Cloud prose Translations weren't fully available until 2021...6 years after AVP basically ended, so I don't even know if it counts as a true retcon in this case.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

there was a (terrible) machine TL of the first chapter in 2013 https://tformers.com/transformers-cloud-prolog-and-first/21896/news.html

The creator bit is also the only thing from Cloud directly referenced in AVP, so I can't help but wonder if this was all the writing team had access to at the time.

Regardless of any of that the story is pretty clear about Unicron's nature and why Megatron wants him gone in it, I think it's safe to treat at least JG1 as tied to "Bigger Unicron" because of this. Sunbow's less important to connect overall since nobody ever writes him as a multiversal character (unless you count 3H but again, that's a whole other similarly complicated mess)

 

[Optimus Prime 654]

there was a (terrible) machine TL of the first chapter in 2013 https://tformers.com/transformers-cloud-prolog-and-first/21896/news.html

The creator bit is also the only thing from Cloud directly referenced in AVP, so I can't help but wonder if this was all the writing team had access to at the time.

Regardless of any of that the story is pretty clear about Unicron's nature and why Megatron wants him gone in it, I think it's safe to treat at least JG1 as tied to "Bigger Unicron" because of this. Sunbow's less important to connect overall since nobody ever writes him as a multiversal character (unless you count 3H but again, that's a whole other similarly complicated mess)

yay more Matrix upscaling

 

[Claudio Swiss]

 

[OtherGalaxy]

if I had a nickel for every time transformers crossed over with evangelion, I’d have two nickels, which isn’t a lot but it’s weird that it happened twice

 

[OtherGalaxy]

sorry three times, I forgot about those tiny little figures of the Evas that turned into trucks

 

[Thirteen prime]

The power of Starscream's laser that Optimus tanked, now the question is how powerful was the subsequent explosion of the lens.

https://onelastforum.com/ubs/i-figured-i-should-post-some-zenass-blogs-i-managed-to-find-multiple-verses.363/

Bulkhead stands 35 feet tall and weighs 7-8 tons, and can also crush skyscrapers.

Arsi is 16 feet tall and weighs 2-3 tons.

Considering this table it's pretty funny

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I had no idea that calc got reuploaded here, it came out way higher than I remembered

 

[Thirteen prime]

I had no idea that calc got reuploaded here, it came out way higher than I remembered

If we take this into account, then this is already higher animated as I remember, the most powerful explosion they had was capable of destroying everything within a radius of hundreds of miles, although it is likely that for annihilations it will probably be even higher since these are antiprotons.

 

[grillmaster]

I had no idea that calc got reuploaded here, it came out way higher than I remembered

gah damn

 

[Thirteen prime]

@grillmaster
@OtherGalaxy

 

[Optimus Prime 654]

@OtherGalaxy

well some Unicron avatars are > Thirteen, and the Matrix is connected to the Afterlife

I mean weren't they already are? Like it is combining elements from multiple versions of the Thirteen. Prima's Matrix was resembling the Origin Matrix, Haslab Primus is likely being released in 2027 and the team wanted to do a "multiversal singularity" one because AOTP was full of that (Dreamwave Fallen with his POTP Requiem Blaster, G2 Liege, Cybertron Vector who is likely, Machanima Solus) and like AOTP is reusing stuff from POTP where each faction symbol represents the Thirteen with their abilities and artifacts and the Halo of Primus structure. One of Vector's abilities in the POTP were stated to access timelines, so there is that. However, yeahhh a comfirmation for Vector is needed, but since like the Pantheon is using the Cybertron version with his Planet Keys and Rhisling.

also

 

[Thirteen prime]

Apparently, the Shockwave's firepower in a single shot was enough to destroy the Dalian Oil Refinery in China.

Optimus rips apart Driller's tentacles and withstands a blast from Shockwave.

 

[Thirteen prime]

Apparently The Fallen can manipulate space and time to escape from the sarcophagus and the pocket dimension he was trapped in.

The Longshot rose, vanished into the rings of the gas giant that filled the sky. Inside the Nemesis, the pillar glowed. Time and space rippled, buckled. The surface of the artifact the sarcophagus-weakened. The black hand of the Fallen pushed out of his cons-old prison.

 

[Optimus Prime 654]

Apparently The Fallen can manipulate space and time to escape from the sarcophagus and the pocket dimension he was trapped in.

where does this source come from?

 

[grillmaster]

Apparently The Fallen can manipulate space and time to escape from the sarcophagus and the pocket dimension he was trapped in.

eons-old prison not cons-old but otherwise yeah

 

[Thirteen prime]

I keep wondering if The Fallen is talking about the population of one planet whose mental mass and power he absorbed, or about all the worlds and civilizations he devastated?

The Fallen used his telekinesis and teleportation abilities to transport the Constructicons and Jetfire to another part of the planet.

Primes are transdimensional beings, that is, beings capable of transcending time, space, and other dimensions, because of this feature they can travel between dimensions.

The Fallen can apparently open access to a sub-dimensional storage area from which it can obtain weapons.