What series are only truly strong in vs debates?

Flowering Knight

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
We had a thread about beliefs before getting into vs debating, this one's kinda similar to that. I'm talking about series that don't appear to be very strong by most people unless looked at in a vs debating context.

Starting the thread off with probably the most obvious example: Star Wars. Most people view it as a series comprised of peak humans with wall level laser swords, but in actuality even basic Padawans (and pretty much anyone with a lightsaber) are considered planet level, while most other force users are straight up universal; a far cry from the average joe's perception of the series.
 

shade0180

Just a shadow
V.I.P. Member
Suikoden, Suikoden as a game don't actually look strong, considering most game play is limited to a single land mass.

Until you basically compile the shit each of the rune can do and has actually done within game play showing
 

OtherGalaxy

ยสี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่สี่ สี่สี
V.I.P. Member
Bionicle is way stronger than people expect lego toys to be, especially in hax and speed. It punches up a lot more than most series of its level do.

Elric is probably the biggest though because it looks like typical swords and sorcery but then it's actually one of the strongest series in fiction


And I will say Transformers because outside of Unicron and Primus people have no idea about how crazy some of it gets and underrate it immensely. And even the big two you still get weird threads like "there are no multiversal feats in TF". It is probably the most misunderstood mainstream series besides EU Star Wars in a VS setting. Nobody knows there's a version of fuckin Bumblebee that washes Dragon Ball or GaoGaiGar or JoJo
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
V.I.P. Member
I'd say Greek Myth counts as one. Most people who are aware of it don't know how powerful characters in it like the gods can get, usually putting lads like Zeus like multi-continent or whatever like Percy Jackson series did and that's basically it, never knowing until shown that the top gods and so forth of the mythos, depending on the poet, can easily reach universal to universal+ levels of power.
 

Type-Rey

Acclaimed
Fanverse and SB Bleach :mjlol

Serious answer, RPGs and CRPGS in particular.

Series like Kingdoms of Amalur, Arcanun, Pillars of Eternity , Planescape Torment just to name a few have insane shit built into their lore as opposed to what you see on screen.
 

sir_fire

Distinguished
Mortal Kombat.

Aside from The One Being and the Elder Gods, everyone else is kinda... Frail for a fighting game.
 
Castlevania, Fable, Contra, Yokoverse, Final Fantasy, The Legend of Zelda, Mother/Earthbound, Shadow Hearts, Breath of Fire, Dungeon Fighter Online, Punishing Gray Raven, Warframe, Halo, and Mass Effect.
 

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
It & The Dark Tower. To this day people are still galaxy-braining over the Turtle vomiting up the Universe and It's true form being a cosmic horror. Similar can be said with The Dark Tower how most people can miss the scape of Gan and Los as most of the story focuses on Roland and his gang.

The Elder Scrolls. Even I back in the day thought TES had a tiny cosmology and not too impressive, but after a friend corrected me on this and further research I saw it was insanely beyond what I expected to be, and with years of more research I found it's one of the most powerful series out there. Now even just playing the games I can see a ton of insane stuff which happens directly onscreen.

Little Witch Academia. At first I thought it wasn't so powerful, but after paying some more attention to the lore in conjuction with the visuals and checking out the Chronicle and game I discovered it's very likely the most powerful series Trigger has created since Gurren Lagann. And yet you still get people who think it's weaker than MHA.
 

Derpmaster9000

Balor Béimnech
V.I.P. Member
Little Witch Academia. At first I thought it wasn't so powerful, but after paying some more attention to the lore in conjuction with the visuals and checking out the Chronicle and game I discovered it's very likely the most powerful series Trigger has created since Gurren Lagann. And yet you still get people who think it's weaker than MHA.
Just how strong is the verse, exactly? I would read your blog on it, but I unfortunately do not have the time to do so at the minute.
 

shade0180

Just a shadow
V.I.P. Member
I'd say Greek Myth counts as one. Most people who are aware of it don't know how powerful characters in it like the gods can get, usually putting lads like Zeus like multi-continent or whatever like Percy Jackson series did and that's basically it, never knowing until shown that the top gods and so forth of the mythos, depending on the poet, can easily reach universal to universal+ levels of power.
and then chaos being be all and end all of the greek myth most casual don't even have a clue about him and shit
 

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member
Just how strong is the verse, exactly? I would read your blog on it, but I unfortunately do not have the time to do so at the minute.
You mean you didn't read my 4000 word essays on LWA? My lad...I am disappointed.

Long version...
The Leylines are the branches of Yggdrasil, the tree which all magic comes from. Yggdrasil's branches not only hold all celestial bodies in the sky in their orbits (which we can affirm by the different points in the series where magic is drawn down from the stars and the planets), but it's power is enough to warp space and dimensions to create pocket worlds via quantum superposition, which can only be reached via the leylines. It can even do this when Yggdrasil is in a near death-like state from being starved of belief energy (believing in magi fuels magic). In certain places, the ley lines lead back through time as well as space.

At the end of the series, Akko and Diana absorb enough belief energy to resurrect Yggdrasil and use it as a projectile to return magic to the world. It's only a temporary boost and done with prep and help for Akko and Diana but still. Woodward is also so old and powerful that she's merging with Yggdrasil, and can see the past, present and future, and likely even different futures (it's debatable that she can alter timelines, but I've yet to 100% confirm if she can do this or not).

Chariot also scarred the Moon, mass scattering a country-sized mass of it at thousands of kilometers a second with the belief energy of only a few dozen people (I calced this in the large planet level range, and as per above, belief energy isn't linear in growth). The Noir Fuel Spirit Rod has way more emotional energy than Chariot did when she scarred the Moon (it had the emotional energy of a whole town/city), and was able to nullify the leylines (at least in a certain area) across different dimensions so the only magic that worked had self contained sources (Shiny Rod, magitronixs, the shooting star), and continued absorbing energy from across dimensions. Croix was able to damage it, but it just regenerated. Akko destroyed it in two hits with the Shiny Rod.

The game has the Horologium Chamber causing a timeloop which causes even distant constellations to increase in luminousity. The Time Demon is powerful enough to break this loop. Molly McIntyre was cursed 200 years ago after she became the Ghost Witch, and her power was split behind the 7 doors of the Chamber of Time (even the aspects of her power was enough to cause natural disasters). The game also has artifacts you can wield like the Calamity Rod which has enough power to destroy the world, the Stardust Rod which can control the stars in the sky, the Chaos Wand which increases the power of the wielder endlessly, Judgement Rod which was bestowed by the gods to meet out their judgement, the Fate Wand which can twist Fate itself.

As for speed, Alcor is MFTL,crossing from beyond the galaxy and space-time in seconds, and the power of the stars is called upon/returned at MFTL speeds. Chariot scarring the Moon happened at sub-light speeds.

In terms of hax, there's shapeshifting, transmutation, magic absorbsion, invisibility, dimension hopping (several spells could work across dimensions too, and Croix hacked all the TVs & computers in the world from another dimension), time manipulation (though under most circumstances this only works on a small scale and on inanimate objects, while the Horologium Chamber and the Time Demon can manipulate it on a grand scale; certain artifacts also allow you to change your past), regeneration, control over all four elements (with gravity manipulation falling under earth), soul fuck, intangibility, entering someone elses mind (which ambiguously risks flooding into the real world under certain circumstances), mindfuck, memory manipulation, protective barriers and more.

Even prior to properly learning any magic Akko has city to small island durability (this would also scale to the other seven main witches).

I will post citations for all of this if need be.

Short version is city level to small island+ with MHS speed for mid tiers, large planet level to multi-star system level+ with MHS to relativistic (if not MFTL) speed for high tiers and low-multiversal+ with MFTL speed for god tiers.
 
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