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General philosophy Indian philosophy
- Thread starter Cubey
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Cubey
Azazel
So the overview for this thread will cover the role of the individual (personal Self) in all three religions.
In Hinduism, the Self <spoiler>
In Buddhism, the Self <spoiler>
In Jainism, the Self <spoiler>
So that’s what we’re gonna discuss and then conclude with their interrelations (the three religions and their purpose)
In Hinduism, the Self <spoiler>
In Buddhism, the Self <spoiler>
In Jainism, the Self <spoiler>
So that’s what we’re gonna discuss and then conclude with their interrelations (the three religions and their purpose)
Cubey
Azazel
I don’t know anything about Sikhism except the hair.
This thread will focus on the main three
karma Samsara in Indian philosophy
Cubey
Azazel
Samsara in Indian philosophy is the cycle of birth, death, and rebirth, indefinitely. Samsara is the constant around which all three religions, namely Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism revolve. Samsara’s function is to keep souls trapped under an oppressive spiritual regime that is based on karma. The idea is that if you do negative things in your life, such as impure thoughts, speech and conduct, you will invariably have to bear the consequences of them - those same things are going to happen to you later on when you think you’ve escaped samsara and the negative karma that is attached to your atman (individual Self). Your reactions to these consequences determines whether or not you pay off your debt. If you react with hostility, you will add to your negative karma and your life will get increasingly more painful. If you accept it, you will accrue good karma to balance out your outstanding negative balance. So what happens when you have a surplus of good karma? Well that’s the catch. You are no longer oppressed by consequences, you are now an oppressor as YOUR GOOD KARMA means OTHERS’ BAD KARMA. You are owed, spiritually speaking, and thus when you take advantage of that surplus, you are once again entering the cycle of samsara by virtue of virtue.
The focus of the three religions then is the escape from samsara. Each differs in its take on what it means to be truly liberated.
The focus of the three religions then is the escape from samsara. Each differs in its take on what it means to be truly liberated.
Samadhi
Cubey
Azazel
Samadhi is a a form of meditation in all three religions. Its purpose is tied to its form - what it is. I’ll explain.
Samadhi is a form of meditation that doesn’t really focus on mindfulness, unlike other meditations. Mindfulness means “accepting the instance in any condition”. Practically I’ve never been able to be mindful for more than a mere moment. Maybe it’s possible to increase the duration of mindful meditation. I speak anecdotally when I say it comes and goes.
Now samadhi is the opposite of that. You are not accepting the instance, you are concentrating to a point where your awareness is all you can conceive. This allows for <spoiler for later>. Essentially you are so concentrative that your awareness has become immediately equivalent to your understanding.
Samadhi is extremely important in liberation from samsara.
Samadhi is a form of meditation that doesn’t really focus on mindfulness, unlike other meditations. Mindfulness means “accepting the instance in any condition”. Practically I’ve never been able to be mindful for more than a mere moment. Maybe it’s possible to increase the duration of mindful meditation. I speak anecdotally when I say it comes and goes.
Now samadhi is the opposite of that. You are not accepting the instance, you are concentrating to a point where your awareness is all you can conceive. This allows for <spoiler for later>. Essentially you are so concentrative that your awareness has become immediately equivalent to your understanding.
Samadhi is extremely important in liberation from samsara.
Paramatma
Cubey
Azazel
Alright. We discussed how the atman (Self) aims to achieve a specific goal in Indian philosophy. There is a penultimate goal however to be achieved before the <spoiler for later>. The atman must, through samadhi, which is penetrating insight, be able to achieve paramatma.
Paramatma is the fully-realized atman, which is in communion with its own truth. The point is that the atman does not recognize itself until it becomes the paramatma, the Self realized. This is no ordinary feat for the fettered atman, however it’s just a step before the true goal.
There is a lot of philosophy around this concept. Jung, Lacan, Freud and indeed psychoanalysis as a whole has been obsessed with identity since its inception. But obviously I’m not going to be discussing that itt as that is a tangent.
Paramatma is the fully-realized atman, which is in communion with its own truth. The point is that the atman does not recognize itself until it becomes the paramatma, the Self realized. This is no ordinary feat for the fettered atman, however it’s just a step before the true goal.
There is a lot of philosophy around this concept. Jung, Lacan, Freud and indeed psychoanalysis as a whole has been obsessed with identity since its inception. But obviously I’m not going to be discussing that itt as that is a tangent.
Liberation from Samsara in Hinduism
Cubey
Azazel
Or the purpose of life. The process is very arduous and often not under the control of the atman despite the fact that many individuals would love to just get there right away.
The purpose is Moksha.
In Hinduism, there is the atman, paramatman, and finally the Brahman. Basically the atman is the unrecognizable self. The paramatman is the recognized self. The Brahman is the world-soul or universal spirit. It is the spirit from which everything is the universe was sourced. The reason it’s called the universal spirit is because it is the [future] consciousness where each atman merges and becomes indistinguishable. The idea is for all to become one. In contrast to the other religions, it can be summed up as <spoiler>.
So it goes:
Birthed as atman
Toil in samsara until
Atman becomes paramatman
Paramatman is accepted into brahman
This last part is spiritual osmosis. It is not what I spoilered.
The purpose is Moksha.
In Hinduism, there is the atman, paramatman, and finally the Brahman. Basically the atman is the unrecognizable self. The paramatman is the recognized self. The Brahman is the world-soul or universal spirit. It is the spirit from which everything is the universe was sourced. The reason it’s called the universal spirit is because it is the [future] consciousness where each atman merges and becomes indistinguishable. The idea is for all to become one. In contrast to the other religions, it can be summed up as <spoiler>.
So it goes:
Birthed as atman
Toil in samsara until
Atman becomes paramatman
Paramatman is accepted into brahman
This last part is spiritual osmosis. It is not what I spoilered.
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Liberation from Samsara in Buddhism
Cubey
Azazel
The Buddha achieved nirvana. Let’s just state the obvious. There is a whole host of teachings he offered on the nature of existence, such as the four noble truths, 12 links in the chain of dependent origination, and noble eightfold path. However we need to understand one key point about these teaching: shunyata (emptiness).
The Buddha emphasized emptiness above all else and summed it up with the phrase “form is emptiness and emptiness is form.” This is referring to worldliness. If we take a look at the world and all its glitz and glamour, we see that, for those of us with heart and soul, it’s all vanity. Money, status, glory, etc. It’s all in vain, and thus is spiritually bankrupt. Thus, says the Buddha, form (objects) are emptiness and emptiness is form (objects).
It’s important to note here the distinction between shunyata (emptiness) and nothingness (mu). Nothingness is recognized as a state of contemplation where you lack an inherent existence. Emptiness is insight into the nature of sin.
Ok so what is nirvana? Nirvana is liberation (leaving thusly) from life and rebirth. One who has mastered the Bodhicitta is a Buddha and achieves a state greater than nirvana, the parinirvana. Bodhicitta is the desire to help others achieve buddhahood.
There are three paths to Buddhahood: the path of the arhat, the path of the pratyekabuddha, and the path of the bodhisattva. The arhat is an immediate release. It allows one to enter into nirvana by liberating themselves. This is only a partial release however as the true buddha guides the universe both to self-liberation and full liberation (Bodhicitta). In other words, arhats lack the compassion and wisdom to free others.
The pratyekabuddha realize nirvana by observing nature and their minds. This is the path I’m on personally. The danger of being a pratyekabuddha however is that, if you don’t successfully attain nirvana during samadhi you may fall into one of the lower realms and become a monster. However pratyekabuddhas are extremely self-reliant and determined and persevering, which is why they choose such a path.
The bodhisattva in Buddhism are recognized as the greatest nirvana-seekers. They have mastered Bodhicitta and, if they achieve nirvana, they forego it in order to make sure everyone enters nirvana.
These are the three paths to nirvana, and once the bodhisattva has attained Buddhahood, he will find his true atman (the atman is denied in Buddhism because the idea is the conditions that make up an individual before their liberation are either empty or contaminated)
Nirvana is <spoiler> in relation to moksha which is <spoiler>.
The Buddha emphasized emptiness above all else and summed it up with the phrase “form is emptiness and emptiness is form.” This is referring to worldliness. If we take a look at the world and all its glitz and glamour, we see that, for those of us with heart and soul, it’s all vanity. Money, status, glory, etc. It’s all in vain, and thus is spiritually bankrupt. Thus, says the Buddha, form (objects) are emptiness and emptiness is form (objects).
It’s important to note here the distinction between shunyata (emptiness) and nothingness (mu). Nothingness is recognized as a state of contemplation where you lack an inherent existence. Emptiness is insight into the nature of sin.
Ok so what is nirvana? Nirvana is liberation (leaving thusly) from life and rebirth. One who has mastered the Bodhicitta is a Buddha and achieves a state greater than nirvana, the parinirvana. Bodhicitta is the desire to help others achieve buddhahood.
There are three paths to Buddhahood: the path of the arhat, the path of the pratyekabuddha, and the path of the bodhisattva. The arhat is an immediate release. It allows one to enter into nirvana by liberating themselves. This is only a partial release however as the true buddha guides the universe both to self-liberation and full liberation (Bodhicitta). In other words, arhats lack the compassion and wisdom to free others.
The pratyekabuddha realize nirvana by observing nature and their minds. This is the path I’m on personally. The danger of being a pratyekabuddha however is that, if you don’t successfully attain nirvana during samadhi you may fall into one of the lower realms and become a monster. However pratyekabuddhas are extremely self-reliant and determined and persevering, which is why they choose such a path.
The bodhisattva in Buddhism are recognized as the greatest nirvana-seekers. They have mastered Bodhicitta and, if they achieve nirvana, they forego it in order to make sure everyone enters nirvana.
These are the three paths to nirvana, and once the bodhisattva has attained Buddhahood, he will find his true atman (the atman is denied in Buddhism because the idea is the conditions that make up an individual before their liberation are either empty or contaminated)
Nirvana is <spoiler> in relation to moksha which is <spoiler>.
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Liberation from Samsara in Jainism
Cubey
Azazel
Jainism is often overlooked in favor of Buddhism as an alternate to Hinduism when it comes to Indian spirituality.
In Jainism, karma is not some underlying moral principle, it is physical particles that a jiva (soul) attracts or repels and their nature, or quality, is determined by the thoughts and deeds of the jiva in question.
The goal of the jiva in Jainism is kevalya, emancipation from karma. In Jainism, unlike Hinduism, where souls become one with the world, or Buddhism, where souls detach from the world, the jiva after attaining kaivala, becomes omniscient due to shedding the karma that was interfering with their insight. They all ascend to the apex of the universe and live in harmony, each embracing one another fully.
This leads into questions about causality and how knowing the future can mean apotheosis.
Jainism is “each” (meaning the harmony between jiva) whilst Hinduism is “only” (meaning Brahman and osmosis with it) and Buddhism is “none” (meaning the final nirvana where no one is left in samsara due to having escaped via transcendence)
Jainism is also very coinciding with German rationalist Leibniz’s theories which I’ll get to later in that thread.
In Jainism, karma is not some underlying moral principle, it is physical particles that a jiva (soul) attracts or repels and their nature, or quality, is determined by the thoughts and deeds of the jiva in question.
The goal of the jiva in Jainism is kevalya, emancipation from karma. In Jainism, unlike Hinduism, where souls become one with the world, or Buddhism, where souls detach from the world, the jiva after attaining kaivala, becomes omniscient due to shedding the karma that was interfering with their insight. They all ascend to the apex of the universe and live in harmony, each embracing one another fully.
This leads into questions about causality and how knowing the future can mean apotheosis.
Jainism is “each” (meaning the harmony between jiva) whilst Hinduism is “only” (meaning Brahman and osmosis with it) and Buddhism is “none” (meaning the final nirvana where no one is left in samsara due to having escaped via transcendence)
Jainism is also very coinciding with German rationalist Leibniz’s theories which I’ll get to later in that thread.
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Cubey
Azazel
The concept of "dharma interpenetration" in Huayan Buddhism: this is a form of mereology that attempts to summarize the relationship between parts and the whole.
This interpenetration theory does justice to what has puzzled philosophers since the dawn of time, eg it is a clear, concise and succinct list of all interactions that logically follow when asserting interdependent parts of a whole.
There is also a concept in Shingon and Huayan Buddhism called the "world-text" It is an explanation of every phenomena to have ever occurred and is the size of the universe itself.