Optimus Prime & Megatron (Cloud World) Scaling
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Basically these versions of the character. Before we do something, let us give a brief Introduction about these versions.
This version of Optimus Prime basically focuses on him being the leader of the Spacetime officers (Typically refers to the Autobots of Cloud World) safeguarding the multiverse itself. However, things changed when Megatron decides rather if he can get SARA for power, leading Optimus to banish Megatron from Metropolis and the war basically starts between Autobots and Decepticons for SARA
Basically in the final chapter, Optimus defeats Megatron in his "Dimension Mode" within the Matrix:
Optimus pulled his arm out at once, SARA's small body firmly in his grasp, and without SARA, Megatron's body began to collapse, unable to maintain its current overflow of dimensional power. But still, Megatron reaches out his hand towards Optimus and SARA.
"Megatron... it's over..."
Optimus transformed the energy unit on his back into an ion blaster and pulled the trigger.
The energy shot straight through Megatron's body, and he went fell away limply.
"Megatron..."
SARA murmured his name with sorrowful eyes and disappeared into the dimensional vortex with Optimus.
Defeated in battle, Megatron returned alone from the spacetime vortex into normal space... into the body of the collapsing Unicron. Lying
Megatron throughout the story absorbs the power of SARA.
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With that, he got full control over SARA's power:
"I can feel you there, SARA, it's been a long time."
"Megatron, I already have the technology to generate the Dimension Gate. With your great power, you should now be able to travel freely through spacetime. Now that my lord has complete dominion over spacetime, I believe SARA is of no further use to us..."
Megatron's Fusion Blade is made fusing metals from different dimensions, with the fusion blade, he can seal through dimensions and basically start invading them in general. He can equip SARA's Dimension Mode and according to the narrative itself, he would have threatened to end the Multiverse including the Cloud World itself:
"To light a dead spark... Is this SARA's power?"
Optimus was astonished at the situation before him, but he gathered his strength and readied his gun. If he didn't stop Megatron, no matter the cost, Cloud's future and the future of the entire Spacetime World would be lost.
But before Optimus could fire, Megatron shot out a lightning-like energy beam from his raised arm and mercilessly struck through Optimus' body.
(Typically the term "SpaceTime World" was referring to the multiverse as it was referred to be a collection of spacetimes or universal streams/clusters if you wanna go in American terms)
Megatron with SARA's power was said to control spacetime itself:
Megatron's usual mannerisms hadn't changed a bit, even though the energy of 'SARA' was overflowing through his body; the reaction was so dangerous and unstable that his body was bathed in a flash of light.
"Why would you do such a thing like that!?" Optimus asked as he began to weaken from the aftermath of energy seeping and spreading across the room.
"The answer is simple... now that I have all of 'SARA's power in me, I shall become the undefeated ruler of every single world in space-time!!"
"The undefeated ruler of space-time!?" Brawn, after hearing Megatron's declaration, yelled out in anger. "What nonsense! If you use up all of 'SARA's power, all of Cloud World will collapse!"
"Your subordinates will also perish with this world! So there's one good thing about it!" Hot Rodimus added his gleeful thoughts.
"You small fry are now NOTHING compared to ME!" Megatron roared as he emitted an enormous amount of energy towards them from his hand.
"ΑΑΑΑΗΗΗΗΗΗHHH!" Hot Rodimus and Brawn were intensely swept away by the power, which was so intense that they couldn't directly fight back. Not even a single Transformer could endure the amount of energy stored within 'SARA'.
"Hang on you two! Megatron you monster!"
Megatron stared at Optimus, who was seeing his friends being fired on, with a more fierce and burning expression of anger on his face than ever before.
"I should have said this before... there is more to 'SARA's power than being used by those who are good. This enormous amount of power should really be placed in the hands of a ruler! To rule over all of space-time... THAT is its true purpose! It is certain that this world will soon be annihilated... but it is not and neither will be my primary concern!!"
Optimus was speechless; he had caught a glimpse of Megatron's insanity for the first time.
"But absorbing this power alone is not enough for me to conquer all of space-time... I
must travel to the OG sector of space-time, the very first universe said to have been generated, and use this power to conquer every square inch of it!"
According to SARA, Spacetime was said to be infinite.
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SARA Megatron's powers would have turned the WHOLE multiverse into pure chaos:
This is kind of what I brought up earlier but there's a lot of future tense going on with Cloud. "Megatron will bring order" to the multiverse but we never see him do it even before Optimus starts accessing SARA power to fight back, and Megatron even admits he needs more than SARA to conquer the multiverse. SARA's powers in the story seem mostly related to supporting the existence of the Cloud Universe and allowing travel into the wider multiverse, but it doesn't seem like she has direct power over it in the same way something like Primus does."Congratulations, Megatron... you have achieved your goal."
Shockwave noiselessly appeared next to Megatron, and the other Decepticons gathered around him.
"Then let us immediately use your power to conquer the Spacetime World... The absolute power of Megatron will bring true peace and order to this chaotic multiverse..."
But Shockwave's words didn't seem to reach Megatron's ears.
"Hmm... this one's interesting."
While his subordinates around him looked puzzled, Megatron continued quietly.
"The power of spacetime flowing from SARA,
For Optimus, he has the Matrix with him. Within inside of the Matrix, that what contains SARA's " unknown Dimension Mode power".
Optimus Prime, leader of the Autobots in Cloud Spacetime... In the depths of his chest, there was also something called the Matrix. It was the Matrix of the Cloud Spacetime, and it was resonating with the light of the wisdom of the Matrix of this Spacetime, and it was about to unleash its power. And then....
"Ah...!"
SARA let out an involuntary cry. She clenched his fists tightly and turned to face Megatron,
Megatron paused. The revived body of his nemesis, Optimus Prime, glowed brilliantly in front of him. The glow was as beautiful and divine as SARA's hair, and with the miracle of the two matrices and SARA's power, Optimus was now in what could be called Dimension Mode. It was a figure that should not have been. Optimus, whose arms had been raised as if in meditation for a while, lowered them as if recalling his mind to his body.
The scan with Unicron/SS just seems to say the Wreckers at some point fought Unicron and Alternity Starscream.Even also in his bios it was said he can equip SARA's power:
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It was said whoever grants SARA's powers can rival enemies like Unicron or Alternity Starscream.
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SARA stablizes the Cloud World:
"You know that I- that "SARA" exists to stabilize the Cloud World that manages spacetime by absorbing and amplifying the excess energy collected from other spacetimes by the Autobots, the guardians of the Spacetime World, for tens of thousands, no, hundreds of millions of years."
Optimus was reminded that the history of the Cloud World and SARA began long before he was appointed Autobot Supreme Commander.
"But now there is an entity that will break that long peace... one you know well, Megatron."
The Cloud World obtains energy from the multiverse:
The Cloud World lives by obtaining surplus energy from throughout the Spacetime World.
The two heroes were in fierce conflict over how to collect that energy.
They staggered to their feet and glared fiercely at each other.
"You speak lightly of overseeing Spacetime,
According to Vector Prime, the Cloud Autobots were involved to fight off against Hytherion in the great Universe War, making them relative to the Alternity:
Q: Dear Vector Prime,
Where were the TransTechs, Alternity, and Cloud World Autobots during the Universe War?
.
.
A: Dear Multi-Dimensional Muckraker,
Time moves at different rates throughout the Multiverse. "Simultinaeity," as a concept, means little when some realms are running centuries, millennia, epochs ahead or behind or others. There are countless threats to the Multiverse, and the instant in which they are perceived varies from stream to stream. Rest assured, the Autobots of the Alternity and of Cloud World were not idle during the events of the Universe War, dealing with threats undreamed of by humanity. Have you not wondered why the Hytherion did not consume more worlds bereft of protectors and suffering from quantum decay due to the crudity of Unicron's predatory machinations?
The TransTech, on the other hand, did observe some unusual trans-dimensional activity during this time, but, as was their wont, were content with cataloging the anomalies. They were never aware of the true extent of the danger.
I think this is fine, it's very clear misuse of SARA's power will directly result in the destruction of Cloud world, and we have so many statements that universes in Transformers are infinite that it's unnecessary to even get into that further. I'm iffy on how far the Alternity scaling goes because we don't have much detail on how their fights against the Hytherion went, how they assisted etc. Because in Alternity for example we see even regular Transformers assist in the fights via using Alternity tech to assist, and Alternity Starscream wasn't part of a higher dimensional aggregate like Megatron and the other Alternity bots were so it's hard to know how far his scaling would benefit the Wreckers and Optimus/Megatron. The only major thing I recall is he has a variation of the Hytherion's time eating ability but I don't recall us seeing how powerful his was in the story(Ofc you know one of the Alternity's level.)
Conclusion:
Both of them can be put at Low 2-C (Universe+, infinite 4D) at Bare minimum via Megatron controlling infinite spacetime. Normally, Optimus can get to High 1-C (High Complex Multiversal) or higher dimensional level since he was comparable to the likes of the Alternity.
This I'm less convinced of as the multiverse wide threat of Megatron seems to be contingent on a number of conditions and is closer to a chain reaction sort of deal rather than netting him a raw tiering. Kind of reminds me of how the specifics in Cybertron/Galaxy Force don't really let the entire cast scale to the Grand Black Hole for example.Through amps, Optimus was amped by the Matrix and Megatron was amped by SARA, so they are probably around 1-B (Hyperversal) via SARA being Multiverse level and Megatron threatening to destroy the multiverse.
Thanks for the answer, I'll try eventually respond once i'm done working on a youtube video.Sorry this took so long to look at, been busy with work, family etc.
So I don't disagree with this necessarily, but I'm not sure it's enough to give Cloud Megatron billing beyond multiversal range as it's pretty clear in the story and quotes above he is conquering the worlds by going to them one by one. It reminds me a lot of how SG Ultra Magnus prompted the Shroud by collapsing one universes and rampaging across others, which was enough for Nexus to shut the whole thing down before it got worse. One of the things brought up early in Cloud is that the Decepticons are prohibited from travelling to other universes and collecting their excess spacetime energy, and above quotes highlight being able to use the dimension gates as a gamechanger for them.
Per the ending quote here, while SARA will allow Megatron access and power over universes, he needs to go back and alter the G1 world to truly control the multiverse (this story seems to operate on the idea that if you change G1 it could retroactively alter other worlds, while this doesn't match other TF stories very well, all the writers have different views on how the multiverse works so I don't really have an issue with this. For the sake of this story, this is how it may have worked here). However, I think the statements about SARA's power collapsing Cloud World are still really valuable here (and honestly something I had missed), it seems like SARA grants the power to travel to any reality and its misuse would result in their destruction, but not all at once.
This is kind of what I brought up earlier but there's a lot of future tense going on with Cloud. "Megatron will bring order" to the multiverse but we never see him do it even before Optimus starts accessing SARA power to fight back, and Megatron even admits he needs more than SARA to conquer the multiverse. SARA's powers in the story seem mostly related to supporting the existence of the Cloud Universe and allowing travel into the wider multiverse, but it doesn't seem like she has direct power over it in the same way something like Primus does.
The scan with Unicron/SS just seems to say the Wreckers at some point fought Unicron and Alternity Starscream.
This is kind of a moot point since the Wreckers wouldn't be stronger than Dimension Mode Optimus though lol, so you could at least scale Optimus and Megatron? to Alternity Starscream
Also just for your ease of access, TFWiki's archive has hi-res scans of the Cloud manga pages
It is important to note SARA's obtaining excess energy from throughout the multiverse, which the Autobots go out through the Dimension Gates and collect, which allows SARA to perpetually sustain Cloud World. I'm not sure it helps pin a power level much though it's useful for range.
You know, I've read this quote like a half dozen times and it somehow never occurred to me use this to back up some of Cloud's more cosmic scaling. I'm not sure they should scale entirely to the Hytherion or something, but it's also clear they have the technology and power to stand their ground based on this. It's pretty clear cut here that they were able to stop universes from being consumed more than once. This is a good example of why it's great to get fresh eyes on things and go over stuff from different angles.
I think this is fine, it's very clear misuse of SARA's power will directly result in the destruction of Cloud world, and we have so many statements that universes in Transformers are infinite that it's unnecessary to even get into that further. I'm iffy on how far the Alternity scaling goes because we don't have much detail on how their fights against the Hytherion went, how they assisted etc. Because in Alternity for example we see even regular Transformers assist in the fights via using Alternity tech to assist, and Alternity Starscream wasn't part of a higher dimensional aggregate like Megatron and the other Alternity bots were so it's hard to know how far his scaling would benefit the Wreckers and Optimus/Megatron. The only major thing I recall is he has a variation of the Hytherion's time eating ability but I don't recall us seeing how powerful his was in the story
This would in theory give Cloud bots some resistance to his haxes though, as the Wreckers would need some way to survive his time eating and probability manipulation to fight him out of their timeline.
Given Alternity Starscream is dead now, I also assume lorewise this must mean Alternity Megatron sent SS at Cloud World at some point during the Alternity stories themselves?
This I'm less convinced of as the multiverse wide threat of Megatron seems to be contingent on a number of conditions and is closer to a chain reaction sort of deal rather than netting him a raw tiering. Kind of reminds me of how the specifics in Cybertron/Galaxy Force don't really let the entire cast scale to the Grand Black Hole for example.
Anyhow, thank you for compiling and it's nice that someone else combed over Cloud
Well in the end he was going to destroy everything if he articulated the scopes of the main G1 world. This is pretty much a keyword that Megatron was threatened to end the multiverse which leads us directly to the final chapter since in Chapter 2-3, it does involve Dimensional gateaway and the decepticons didn't did anything but only stole SARA. Thing is at that point Megatron didn't had SARA at that time since the real thing was shown in the final chapter, normally these versions of the Autobots and decepticons do have SpaceTime Manipulation in them at base so rlly dosen't matter.Sorry this took so long to look at, been busy with work, family etc.
So I don't disagree with this necessarily, but I'm not sure it's enough to give Cloud Megatron billing beyond multiversal range as it's pretty clear in the story and quotes above he is conquering the worlds by going to them one by one. It reminds me a lot of how SG Ultra Magnus prompted the Shroud by collapsing one universes and rampaging across others, which was enough for Nexus to shut the whole thing down before it got worse. One of the things brought up early in Cloud is that the Decepticons are prohibited from travelling to other universes and collecting their excess spacetime energy, and above quotes highlight being able to use the dimension gates as a gamechanger for them.
For the first points you made, I do agree on this though. For the second point, the Final chapter did brought back the "OG-01 Spacetime" which typically Megatron finished his job before he met Unicron which is why he knew Unicron existed across dimensions seeing as him granting the power over the multiverse and which is why he absorbs the FULL power of SARA which is his peak form and SARA was said to transcend spacetime in the EX Deadlock issue in Legends anyways:the ending quote here, while SARA will allow Megatron access and power over universes, he needs to go back and alter the G1 world to truly control the multiverse (this story seems to operate on the idea that if you change G1 it could retroactively alter other worlds, while this doesn't match other TF stories very well, all the writers have different views on how the multiverse works so I don't really have an issue with this. For the sake of this story, this is how it may have worked here). However, I think the statements about SARA's power collapsing Cloud World are still really valuable here (and honestly something I had missed), it seems like SARA grants the power to travel to any reality and its misuse would result in their destruction, but not all at once.
This is kind of what I brought up earlier but there's a lot of future tense going on with Cloud. "Megatron will bring order" to the multiverse but we never see him do it even before Optimus starts accessing SARA power to fight back, and Megatron even admits he needs more than SARA to conquer the multiverse. SARA's powers in the story seem mostly related to supporting the existence of the Cloud Universe and allowing travel into the wider multiverse, but it doesn't seem like she has direct power over it in the same way something like Primus does.
I know he didn't destroyed any universes, but it was mainly because Optimus Prime defeated him at time and it was clear that both at the same time ascended to their Dimension Mode which was their full power and battled across multiple universes:After Optimus returned to Metropolis to receive treatment, the Autobot warriors received Hot Rodimus' spacetime transmissions and embarked on another rescue mission to the 10-BS Spacetime. The Autobots then relied on the energy signature of SARA, who had been taken by Megatron, to reach here...the 01-OG[1] Spacetime.
"It was a mistake not to finish me off completely right there, Megatron!"
Optimus and the Autobots faced down Megatron in a room inside Unicron. With Optimus, Hot Rodimus, Brawn, Roadbuster and Grimlock arrived. The Autobots, now without SARA, were unable to travel through spacetime on a large scale, and they had to select their members based on their combat power and... more importantly, their strong desire to go to the final battle.
"Not really, I'm rather glad. It's what I want, Optimus, so I can enjoy watching you squirm helplessly as you witness what happens next."
"Megatron... what in the World are you doing in the 01-OG Spacetime?"
The 01-OG Spacetime is very close to the OG-001 Spacetime that Optimus wandered into before, and it is also considered to be one of the fundamental Spacetimes of all events. And the timing of Unicron's appearance on the stage was an important and inviolable turning point in the Flow of Time that extends from there.
"This 'Unicron' defiles the dominion of Cloud, so I thought I'd wipe it from existence with my own hands to commemorate my ascension the Emperor of all Spacetime."
"What kind of nonsense are you talking?"
Brawn exclaimed in surprise, but Megatron continued with a cool face.
"It is a task of little effort for me now. I'm sure the inhabitants of this Spacetime will be relieved to hear that."
"This being must be defeated by the inhabitants of this Spacetime...! If an outsider from Cloud Spacetime were to do such a thing, it would not only affect the Flow of Time that follows, but also the entire Spacetime World... Can't you see that?"
Optimus murmured in a determined tone, controlling Hot Rodimus who was shouting in anger.
"Autobot warriors, stop the remaining Decepticons that may be inside this... 'Unicron.' I will deal with Megatron... personally."
"No, you can't do that, Commander! He is no longer the Megatron we knew! And with his body like that...!"
Roadbuster was surprised and tried to stop him, but Optimus's determination seemed to be beyond the control of the others. Megatron grinned quietly.
"I understand... Commander, please be safe...!"
At the sound of Hot Rodimus' voice, Brawn, Roadbuster, Grimlock scattered as if they had made up their minds. They knew that even if they challenged Megatron head on, they would be no match for him, who had gained the full power of SARA. So they agreedd that to leave everything to Optimus...to the will of the leader, and do what they could.
also we got the sheer fact that chapter 3 even says that collapsing the Cloud World would be a HUGE problem to the multiverse:The warriors of the Cloud Spacetime and the local Spacetime had both fled, and Unicron's body was on the verge of collapse. Only Optimus and Megatron, the two who had transcended all others to reach Dimension Mode, remained, engaged in a final battle inside the imploding god.
"Megatroooon!"
"Optimuuuus!"
The duel between the two had grown fearsome. Every punch overflowed with massive bursts of energy, distorting the surrounding spacetime over top of the fiery chaos of Unicron's collapse. Eventually, the surroundings of the two were transformed into a state that could be called a vortex of spacetime, transcending normal space entirely. As the two collided, visions of all the spacetime worlds came into view, and in them, warriors with the same names as themselves... Optimus Prime and Convoy, Megatron and Galvatron. It was the history of their battles. They fought on a blue planet with energy axes and maces; they threw away the Matrix and fought not as leaders, but as pure warriors; they fought through human cities over a single cube...
"Do you see now, Optimus? We battle without end across all of spacetime! Don't you want to put an end to this infinite hell called the Spacetime World?"
SARA herself even claims that Megatron would destroy everything since Megs was at full power:The Cloud World. The core of the Cloud World that controls spacetime, SARA, was stolen by the rebel Megatron and his Decepticons, a group of Underground outlaws, and the crisis of the Cloud World's began collapse involving. Although it became a major incident other spacetime worlds, the collapse of the Cloud World was barely averted thanks to the efforts of the Spacetime Police Autobots under the command of Optimus Prime. A month had passed since the incident.
SARA continued painfully.
"Megatron... has come to believe that the infinitely expanding Spacetime World itself is a prison for me, and that the power he has acquired is for the purpose of destroying it all and creating a new ideal world for himself and for me..
Thank you so much for these mangas since I can't really find those lol. Yea I'll try going through these and find something interesting about these versions of Optimus and Megatron. Someone kinda did reached me this scan about Unicron and stuff in another wiki. I'll eventually try going through these and update you.The scan with Unicron/SS just seems to say the Wreckers at some point fought Unicron and Alternity Starscream.
This is kind of a moot point since the Wreckers wouldn't be stronger than Dimension Mode Optimus though lol, so you could at least scale Optimus and Megatron? to Alternity Starscream
Also just for your ease of access, TFWiki's archive has hi-res scans of the Cloud manga pages
It is important to note SARA's obtaining excess energy from throughout the multiverse, which the Autobots go out through the Dimension Gates and collect, which allows SARA to perpetually sustain Cloud World. I'm not sure it helps pin a power level much though it's useful for range.
I mean yea it was unclear what happened and the AvP quote dosen't make sense A BIT since iirc the Alternity with the help of the Planicrons defeated Hytherion only.You know, I've read this quote like a half dozen times and it somehow never occurred to me use this to back up some of Cloud's more cosmic scaling. I'm not sure they should scale entirely to the Hytherion or something, but it's also clear they have the technology and power to stand their ground based on this. It's pretty clear cut here that they were able to stop universes from being consumed more than once. This is a good example of why it's great to get fresh eyes on things and go over stuff from different angles.
Ehh fair nuff ig so. I mean technically they POSSIBLY have resistence over it, but the Cloud World only focuses on Spacetime or some sort of dimensional hax while the Alternity have like Acasuality or Casuality hax which makes them strong. I think Cloud can be stronger than them in Attack Potency wise.I think this is fine, it's very clear misuse of SARA's power will directly result in the destruction of Cloud world, and we have so many statements that universes in Transformers are infinite that it's unnecessary to even get into that further. I'm iffy on how far the Alternity scaling goes because we don't have much detail on how their fights against the Hytherion went, how they assisted etc. Because in Alternity for example we see even regular Transformers assist in the fights via using Alternity tech to assist, and Alternity Starscream wasn't part of a higher dimensional aggregate like Megatron and the other Alternity bots were so it's hard to know how far his scaling would benefit the Wreckers and Optimus/Megatron. The only major thing I recall is he has a variation of the Hytherion's time eating ability but I don't recall us seeing how powerful his was in the story
This would in theory give Cloud bots some resistance to his haxes though, as the Wreckers would need some way to survive his time eating and probability manipulation to fight him out of their timeline.
Given Alternity Starscream is dead now, I also assume lorewise this must mean Alternity Megatron sent SS at Cloud World at some point during the Alternity stories themselves?
Well the narrative does make it clear his threat can affect everything. Iirc some English sources even say Megatron of Cloud World was a multiversal threat along side others like Unicron, Megatronus or Hytherion etc.This I'm less convinced of as the multiverse wide threat of Megatron seems to be contingent on a number of conditions and is closer to a chain reaction sort of deal rather than netting him a raw tiering. Kind of reminds me of how the specifics in Cybertron/Galaxy Force don't really let the entire cast scale to the Grand Black Hole for example.
Yea all good, when I found about this and read everything, I got all this in my mind that this could potentially be an Optimus and Megatron to match up against high tier or abstract beings. I think Hyperverse level makes sense for full power since its their peak.Anyhow, thank you for compiling and it's nice that someone else combed over Cloud
also from what we can cover, SARA is still multiversal power anyways.Well in the end he was going to destroy everything if he articulated the scopes of the main G1 world. This is pretty much a keyword that Megatron was threatened to end the multiverse which leads us directly to the final chapter since in Chapter 2-3, it does involve Dimensional gateaway and the decepticons didn't did anything but only stole SARA. Thing is at that point Megatron didn't had SARA at that time since the real thing was shown in the final chapter, normally these versions of the Autobots and decepticons do have SpaceTime Manipulation in them at base so rlly dosen't matter.
For the first points you made, I do agree on this though. For the second point, the Final chapter did brought back the "OG-01 Spacetime" which typically Megatron finished his job before he met Unicron which is why he knew Unicron existed across dimensions seeing as him granting the power over the multiverse and which is why he absorbs the FULL power of SARA which is his peak form and SARA was said to transcend spacetime in the EX Deadlock issue in Legends anyways:
I know he didn't destroyed any universes, but it was mainly because Optimus Prime defeated him at time and it was clear that both at the same time ascended to their Dimension Mode which was their full power and battled across multiple universes:
also we got the sheer fact that chapter 3 even says that collapsing the Cloud World would be a HUGE problem to the multiverse:
SARA herself even claims that Megatron would destroy everything since Megs was at full power:
Thank you so much for these mangas since I can't really find those lol. Yea I'll try going through these and find something interesting about these versions of Optimus and Megatron. Someone kinda did reached me this scan about Unicron and stuff in another wiki. I'll eventually try going through these and update you.
For the second point, well I know that helps from dimensional travelling which is why the Cloud Autobots were said to deal with "extra-dimensional threats". Pretty much it depends on context since normally Spacetime isn't energy, but rather just a singular continumn. Transformers was proven multiple times and plus confirmed in medias that spacetime does exist in each universe, so it does make sense for the scope of its scaling.
I mean yea it was unclear what happened and the AvP quote dosen't make sense A BIT since iirc the Alternity with the help of the Planicrons defeated Hytherion only.
Ehh fair nuff ig so. I mean technically they POSSIBLY have resistence over it, but the Cloud World only focuses on Spacetime or some sort of dimensional hax while the Alternity have like Acasuality or Casuality hax which makes them strong. I think Cloud can be stronger than them in Attack Potency wise.
Well the narrative does make it clear his threat can affect everything. Iirc some English sources even say Megatron of Cloud World was a multiversal threat along side others like Unicron, Megatronus or Hytherion etc.
Yea all good, when I found about this and read everything, I got all this in my mind that this could potentially be an Optimus and Megatron to match up against high tier or abstract beings. I think Hyperverse level makes sense for full power since its their peak.
Aside of that, thank you so much for answering. Its good to see atleast someone discussing about this lol.
The size of the hub network connections are kinda iffy imo. In the last panel of the page below, you can see the Autobot ships next to the tubes. Unless the ships are meant to be the size of a country, then the tube is drawn small here.I need to grab the page but Shockwave destroys a piece of Jhiaxus’ hub network in Regeneration One. That easily places them at continental as those cylinders connecting the planets are…comparable size to countries and continents obviously. Should scale to Marvel Galvatron etc
In fact, the galvatron was already knocked out before the shot and they were lying next to each other, so Magnus would have scaled before that, and for the most part he would have taken part of it anyway.Размер сетевых соединений концентратора, на мой взгляд, немного сомнителен. На последней панели страницы ниже вы можете видеть корабли автоботов рядом с трубами. Если только корабли не должны быть размером со страну, то труба здесь нарисована маленькой.
Внутренняя часть трубок здесь также, по-видимому, изображена довольно маленькой.
У Гальватрона лучший подвиг в комиксе Regeneration One. Однако, автоботы, похоже, не масштабируются напрямую к нему. Ультра Магнус прикрылся за Гальватроном, чтобы пережить взрыв, например.
Что касается того, что Автоботы нанесли Гальватрону урон позже, а также того, что Ультра Магнус убил его, Саймон Фурман, когда его спросили, ответил, что, по его мнению, Гальватрон был ослаблен после того, как его взорвали и впоследствии захватила Темная Матрицы. Так что, возможно, они не масштабируются с ним, когда он сделал тот большой взрыв, видимый из космоса.
«Жаль, что вам это не понравилось. Многим понравилось. Это оказывается одной из тех вещей, которые вызывают разногласия. Но... нельзя угодить всем и всегда. В конце концов, я пришел к выводу, что лучше всего подвести черту под всем этим. Вы можете спорить о таких, как Гальватрон, туда и сюда, но это, в конце концов, только ваше мнение. Мое же заключается в том, что он был уничтожен Миром Войны и одержим Темной Матрицой, поэтому он больше не был тем неудержимым, каким был когда-то».TRANSFORMERS REGENERATION ONE #100 – SCRIPT (W)RAP
It’s the end of an era. After 30 years and 100 (or so) somewhat interrupted issues, the founding/grounding Transformers saga reaches its epic conclusion. RG1 #100 (#100 in a four-issue limite…simonfurman.wordpress.com
Хотя я признаю, что Гальватрона II можно масштабировать и до других персонажей оригинальной серии (поскольку он был побеждён Фортрессом Максимусом).
The first knockout was because they fell off a highway tho, and it's unclear if he was actually knocked out. The second is likely because Galvatron was weakened according to Simon Furman.In fact, the galvatron was already knocked out before the shot and they were lying next to each other, so Magnus would have scaled before that, and for the most part he would have taken part of it anyway.
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its so insane dude. These are such great comics and they already have nice feats but people always have to go overboard lol. Shockwave even directly explains he’s placing the universe in an endless loop for endless energy to Cybertron…but people took the circle in a circle statement to mean endless dimensionsView attachment 3119
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Lmao the idea of merging all universes was a lie since Shockwave wanted Nova Prime to get killed. The real "Golden Age" was for Shockwave to use the Ores and destroying the main universe to feed Cybertron with infinite energy. Plus to make it worse, Nova Prime has no knowledge over the multiverse, so him merging "all universes" is implying to expand his domain in two universes in general seeing as hell how would Nova or Shockwave know how big is the multiverse anyways. From all we know, their idea of the multiverse is two universes.
Man IDW wank is getting handy, still don't know how people are using that "all universes" scan.
I mean IDW TF's do have solid Universe+ to Low Multiverse stuff through D-Void's scaling and shit. I really love IDW so much since one of their comics are cool, but thing is people like wanking the absolute living shit out of it to like around Hyper-Outerversal.its so insane dude. These are such great comics and they already have nice feats but people always have to go overboard lol. Shockwave even directly explains he’s placing the universe in an endless loop for endless energy to Cybertron…but people took the circle in a circle statement to mean endless dimensions
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