Nasuverse Feat - Destruction of Primordial Sea/Chaos Tide/Grail Mud

So, let's get back to this stuff.

Starting here.

Also let's play text here.

Primordial Sea and Soil of Genesis Description said:
"--It is quite unbelievable. Weakened as you are, you still have that much power. As expected from the executioner prepared by the True Ancestors.
...... Do not face the white vampire princess----It seems the warnings of others were correct."

Nrvnqsr's voice isn't dimmed at all.

----I feel,
a horribly sinking sense of despair.

Arcueid tries to catch her breath as she slowly draws near Nrvnqsr.

"You should have been able to tell with a glance if you had not been weakened. Use your golden Mystic Eyes and see. Can you see it? The chaos of the 666 "beasts" inside my body---"

Splash.
Something moves quickly at the edge of my vision.

"A----"
Behind Arcueid.
The half of Nrvnqsr's body which was cut off by Arcueid is shaking.
It rises up in a large clot and shoots toward Arcueid----.

"Cr----"
The large serpents wrap around Arcueid and return to a black fluid.
Arcueid is pinned to the ground like me, but the pressure is hundreds of times worse.

"Wh, what----no way......!?"
As she is pushed down, Arcueid tries to escape.
"It is useless. You should understand what that is, Princess of the True Ancestors."
".........!"
Arcueid's face lights up in pain and surprise.
The remaining half of Nrvnqsr raises its voice almost as if howling.

"----Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666---Haha, are you pleased with the chaos within my body, Arcueid Brunestud?"
"Are you sane......!? A human body... having more than three hundred factors compressed in something as small and closed-in as a human shape, this is just like----"
"Indeed, no different from the Primordial Sea.
I am not making my body up with other animals. I merely use the factors called 'animals' as my body, mixing them like mud."

"Of course. ----So my alter selves have no concrete existence.
When released from this body which is my territory, they will take form as some kind of 'species' for the first time.
They have no form of their own from the beginning. You can kill them outside of me, but once they return, they regenerate as a part of my chaos.
...... Though, even I cannot predict what they will become once they emerge. Understanding and controlling this disordered dendrogram is my eternal thesis."

The vampire with only half a body gives a boasting, muffled laugh.

"That's impossible......! To take in souls----if you encapsulate uncolored conceptualized existences, you yourself will disappear......!"
"Indeed. That is why this is not a single person here. The personality of Nrvnqsr already does not exist. We are not a single body, but closer to a limitless collective.
...... Certainly, there is no meaning of existence in such a life. There are already life forms in the deep ocean which can be termed eternal systems. This body will lose its intelligence and become a mere 'specimen' just like them someday."

"But, do you not find it magnificent?
There are things which swirl inside me, and you do not know what form they will take. This small world is like that of our world in its primal stages.
A chaotic space where what will be born is unpredictable.
The darkness of chaos just like this planet's dendrogram, while still having the possibility of dramatic change.
I wish to know what lies at its culmination before I disappear."

"This is why the Church gave me this name.
----Nrvnqsr Chaos.
Equipped with 666 beasts, no longer a vampire but a space which has become chaos, a heretic who broke the taboo."

"------!"
Arcueid's voice is held off.
The black fluid squirms all around her.
Even Arcueid's face is already half-covered----.

"Many of our brethren have been killed by you. Many have sought to destroy you, only to be destroyed in turn.
----But, that is all over.
I, Nrvnqsr Chaos, will accomplish a great achievement none could perform until now."

"--Nrvnqsr. This Reality Marble, who---"
"It should be easy to tell. Your nemesis "The Serpent" came to me to teach me, but not the current one from this generation. Before you killed him, he bequeathed upon me the method of making this 'cage'."
"------"
I can't hear Arcueid's voice anymore.
Looking, her mouth is covered in the black fluid.

"But 'The Serpent' is also a tragedy. What was once a priest of the Church can't live on just because a Goddess of Death like yourself is chasing after him.
If he had lived, he may have devised a means to control the chaos in my body. ...... It certainly must have been regretful not being able to fully utilize such a clear heresy before getting destroyed."

"----I will make you a part of me, Arcueid Brunestud.
Absorbing your amount of will may require great effort, but it will make me the highest rank of vampire. A little pain is like a celebration for the new creation.
When that happens----even the professional killers of the abominable Burial Agency will be nothing to fear. I will eradicate all members of that moldy Church."

Video here

More Let's Play text here

Tsukihime Full Power Arcueid vs Nrvnqsr Chaos said:
"Ah--yeah. That makes me happy, but--"

But---are you okay by yourself?

Those words float in the back of my head.
...... There's something wrong with me.

Feeling guilty about letting her face danger all by herself. There really has to be something wrong with me.

".................."

"Shiki? Why are you making that troubled face again?"
"Because I'm troubled. This is something that involves the city I live in."
"I said you shouldn't worry. In two or three days it'll all be over, and there won't be any more victims."

Yeah, honestly, I don't want to be involved.

---But, saying that line...
Shouldn't I, the one actually living in this city, say that line instead of Arcueid?

"...... Arcueid. Um, can I ask a question? This 'enemy' you speak of, is he strong?"

"Well, he should be many times superior than The Dead earlier. I haven't met him this time, but he has been latent for eight years so maybe he's a Class Five by now."
"---You're saying he's stronger than The Dead before?"
Looking like she was in so much pain from fighting just him, isn't she taking him a little lightly?

"...... Class Five? I don't get it, but does that mean he's stronger than Nrvnqsr?"
"Not a chance. Nrvnqsr was special. He was a pure, supreme vampire that would be difficult to defeat even with my full power. Compared to him, this enemy is pretty weak."
"----Oh. Then there's no way you'll be defeated."
I breathe out in relief.

Melty Blood Act Cadenza PS2 Manual p50 said:
Nrvnqsr Chaos [Person's name • Dead Apostle]
One of the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors. Alias, Chaos. He uses all the creatures of the earth as familiars. Because of the fact that he is preserving even extinct species, he is also sometimes called Dr. Beast.
Though he had no business in Japan, he was selected as the executor of the True Ancestor hunt proposed by the White Wing Lord, and followed Arcueid to the island nation in order to defeat her.
Dead Apostles who can measure their lives in millennia require a colossal amount of energy. This has nothing to do with their strength – it is merely the compensation required to maintain such a long-lived existence.
Because he is one of these millennium-class Dead Apostles himself, Nrvnqsr's appetite is voracious. It took devouring every single person in a ten story hotel just to satisfy him.
The factors of 666 beasts are swirling around within his body, but it's probably alright just to think of it as him being equipped with 666 familiars. Because this is essentially like having 666 lives, properly speaking he's a Dead Apostle that even a serious Arcueid wouldn't be able to kill.
As one who became a Dead Apostle through sorcery, he has absolutely no interest in territory or building a faction. The only thing he cares about is completing his thesis.
When he was still a human, his name was Fabro Rowan. He was a magus hailing from the Wandering Tomb, located in the northern Sea of Estray, one of the three main branches of the Association.

Tsukihime Dokuhon PlusPeriod said:
Nrvnqsr Chaos [Person's name • Dead Apostle]
The vampire pursuing Arcueid. One of the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors.
The factors of 666 beasts are swirling around within his body, but it might be easier if you just think of it as him being equipped with 666 familiars. Because this is essentially like having 666 lives, properly speaking even a serious Arcueid wouldn't be able to kill him. Also, as one who became a Dead Apostle through sorcery, he has absolutely no interest in territory or building a faction. The only thing he cares about is completing his thesis.
Despite his huge, muscular body, he is still a scholar at heart, and becomes extremely agitated when he runs into a situation he cannot understand. As a result, he lost his cool in his battle against Shiki and ended up recklessly charging at him. Perhaps due to his abilities, he is becoming more and more apathetic and indifferent toward everything. Should he continue to live for another several hundred years, odds are he really will end up degrading into nothing more than a mass of chaos.
When he was still a human, his name was Fabro Rowan. He was a magus hailing from the Wandering Tomb, located in the northern Sea of Estray.

And the Kagetsu Tohya story Dawn, written by the author of Overlord, has 30% Arcueid's full powered Marble Phantasm fail to do fuck all to Maiko Yamase (basically all that remains of Nrvnqsr Chaos from Tsukihime after Shiki killed his ass). Additionally, Arcueid makes mention that upon approaching True Chaos (aka, the real Chaos Tide/Primordial Sea/Grail Mud) that it becomes a world in and of itself, that power to destroy it would be sufficient to destroy the world.

I've heard there's ambiguity over it being canon, but the reasoning is never provided as the story itself was published as part of Kagetsu Tohya in the first place. Nasu, no longer being the sole writer of Type Moon works, the distinction that he didn't write it shouldn't matter coming from published story material its packaged into

If actual statements exist that cast it being canon into doubt, so be it, its less of a headache to deal with than Arcueid's Marble Phantasm failing at full tilt, but being written by someone other than Nasu isn't a real argument with how much delegation gets done anymore.

Anyway

Neat and all, but what does any of this mean to the greater Nasuverse?

FGO is kind enough to tell us the Primordial Sea/Chaos Tide and such of Tiamat is one and the same as the shit produced by the Holy Grail as far back as FSN.

Thank you Kingu for the hilarious clarification.

What's this mean exactly?

Given how small a surface area Nrvnqsr's Soil of Genesis covers is (both inferred from just the fact the park and distance between Arcueid and Shiki is tiny [like, dozens of meters at most] yet still fails to reach Shiki and the visual the manga provides of it)?

Aside from here where Quetz vaporizing the hell out of several kilometers worth of Tiamat's legitimate Chaos Tide as seen, not just Nrvnqsr Chaos' close approximation?

Well, the most obvious feat from the FSN comes to mind, the most explicit example being from UBW and Heaven's Feel

The Feats

And then have some supplemental quoted at you for context.

UBW Day 16 said:
https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update 226/

How big is that thing?
Already as big as an island, the pile of flesh is slowly expanding.
The clear water is now dirty and sticky like coal tar.

"No way is that the Holy Grail?"
I avert my gaze, unable to stare directly at it.
The air on this mountain is that thing's breath.
The infinitely flowing magical energy is making that lump of meat explode, and the black blood is polluting the lake.
The blood isn't just colorless energy.
The black thing is a visible curse.

Stop such a thing?
The distance is about thirty meters.
The lake is shallow, and it'd be easy to walk in it.
But it's suicidal to go into that mud.

Just looking at the curse is almost enough to knock one unconscious.
I'll weaken and sink into the mud if I walk a meter into it.

...

"That's because it can't be helped. …The Holy Grail will not exist anymore if that happens. That strange thing will flow out from a gate the Holy Grail opens."

The Holy Grail has been activated, but it's not in its true form, nor is it broken.
That goldie just wants to open the gate.
His objective is to activate the Holy Grail and to destroy the vessel. If he does that"

"That mysterious mud will flow out infinitely"

There's no time to think.
We have to pull Shinji out of that thing and stop the Holy Grail…!

"Tohsaka. Can you do something about that mud? It looks like we can walk on it if we freeze it."

...

"Oh, Saber is not here? …How dull. In that case, I guess I will settle for killing just the two of you."
Coldness emanates from the sea of mud, and the man before me gives off a murderous intent.
He already has the Noble Phantasms ready behind him.
I'll be skewered the instant I carelessly take a step forward.

...

"I know. He's still Sakura's brother, and I can't just let him die in front of me. …And you believe in saving anyone that can be saved, right?"

Tohsaka runs to the black lake.
Is she going to go into that mud!?

...

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update 227/

...

A normal person would stop moving after two steps and would fall into the sea of decay.
She does not know what would happen after that.
She doesn't even want to consider whether she would be suffocated or absorbed into the poisoned flesh.
Her mind is too overcome with heat even to think about it.

"Guh man"
She braces her staggering feet and keeps moving forward.
…Rin did not enter the pool of mud without a plan.
She swallowed two jewels and is using all of the magical energy she saved up to defend herself.
If this curse is a crystallization of pure magical energy, she should be able to repel it with strong magical energy of her own

...

She can feel the mountain of meat.

"……? Wait… could this be…?"
She puts her finger on the red ground.
…It is the same as the black mud, but it has form.
It is something that should not exist in this world something that came out of the Holy Grail and took form using magical energy.

"…Servants… This is exactly like the Servants…"
She murmurs in blank amazement.
…She tries to think what this could mean, but then stops herself.
This isn't the time.
There is only one thing she must do right now.

...

https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night/Update 230/

She is not a normal knight.
She fought many monsters back when she was called a hero.
She has even fought "dragons", considered the strongest of the fantasy races.
But even Saber falters against the mountain of meat.
It is not because of its ugliness.
It is because she can tell that the lump of meat and the curse flowing out of it are the same as her.

...

"But Rin…!"
'Just don't…! You'll turn into this if you touch the mud. Please stay there and get ready to use your Noble Phantasm. This thing will explode soon. Use your Noble Phantasm on this before that…!'
Saber cannot nod to her master's words.
…She can tell that the lump of meat is about to hatch.
The squirms are turning into throbs and the mud is spreading ever further.

The lake has turned black, and the mud is spilling onto the ground.
…That thing is growing.
The world's restraining power will be activated if that thing is left alone.
It is natural for her to destroy it with her holy sword.

This is all of course further corroborated by this statement

Comptiq 2006-11 issue - Fate Dojo Q & A said:
Q: Who'd win if the Servants and the 27 Ancestors fought each other? Also, who'd win in a fight between Bazett, a renowned powerhouse of the Association, and Ciel, top class in even the Association?

A: Depends on compatibility, but basically Servants will have the slightly higher advantage. With Saber, Lancer, and Archer classes, we ought to be able to relax and see decent fights. In particular, Saber has THAT sort of Noble Phantasms so against guys like the 27 Ancestors that overwhelm by material quantity and alienness, she'd be REALLY tough.
....Well, there are also some of those tough Ancestors that can withstand a direct hit from Excalibur-class attacks, but against those guys that just (emphasis on just; other stats don't match up) have wickedly high HP, Lancer-aniki'd be pretty tough.

Nasu was being fairly explicit, wherein reference to material quantity would undoubtedly be referring to Nrvnqsr Chaos given that's kind of his entire shtick.

Kind of curious who among the 27 would qualify for tanking Excalibur beyond Primate Murder and ORT, maybe Altrouge? Who gives a shit because we've barely met any of them in a story ever?

Anyway, this all means what?

Which means this statement?

Fate/EXTRA material p202 said:
In EXTRA and CCC, she (Arcueid) is about the only one who is “Capable of defeating Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face), no matter how small the chance might be.”

Needs chucked out the window as a massive contradiction. This is a given as there is plenty of shit on the moon more durable than shit Saber or Shirou's mock projection of Excalibur can destroy. Yet they can destroy a larger quantity of Grail Mud that Arcueid is impotent to destroy herself. If that weaker shit can eat attacks of Excalibur level, but only Arcueid has a chance to defeat Amaterasu at all, but she can't fucking do shit to Chaos... that's a giant circle of bullshit logic that needs burned.

Because Nasu can be consistent, but Nasu can also forget its a fucking school holiday and still have Akiha claim she went to the school that day despite both facts being mentioned within pages of each other (and Shiki nods like a moron that she is reasonable to be saying this).

Comments

Bit late but I wanted to say I don't think Arcueid being unable to destroy Nrvnqsr and having a chance against Amaterasu are contradictory. The thing with classic Arcueid is that she gets a certain amount of backup above her opponent and no more. That's why she can't kill Nrvnqsr because he is made up of 666 lives as the quote states. The amount of backup she gets against Nrvnqsr doesn't compensate for his number of lives and material quantity.
There is also the fact that Nasu has been changing Arc's status across the years. For example Arcueid was not the Alter Ego/Brain of Earth in 2001, she only got that status in 2011 with the introduction of Archetype Earth.

Of course that's all before Remake where Arcueid's backup is shown to work according to her own individual judgement and she can raise her output even in response to her opponent's weapons and hidden trump cards. Plus it's heavily implied she killed Nrvnqsr while in Souya before Day 2 of the game.

Nasuverse Feat - Destruction of Primordial Sea/Chaos Tide/Grail Mud

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