Strongest Nasu Character Current Accelerator can defeat?

[Irradiance]

Because of the nature that there are plenty of Universes that have characters that can explicitly shut off the ability or Espers only alter Reality with the help of their knowledge of Mathematics to help dictate how that works... but what if the Reality basically denies even that? Then there abilities shouldn't be able to manifest at all or straight up be denied.

EDIT: Let me put this as example of how Reality Marbles work alongside the mechanics of the Nasuverse:
Reality Marbles overlay the user's Soul into the World and basically becomes their Pocket Dimension/World:

The thing about it is... that it's literally no different than how Espers do their abilities... but on a smaller scale for the latter and the larger scale for the former(Who has to consistently fight against the Planet who is trying to overwrite the invading Reality back to itself):


This is why Goetia's, completely away from the Earth and in the Infinite Numbers Space, was able to maintain his forever and it was the size of a Galaxy.
When you add that in to characters can explicitly mess with and destroy Reality Marbles... it already implies that the same can very, VERY much be done to Espers in To Aru:



And we see that happen with Enuma Elish and Photon Ray with Altera in Fate/Zero and Fate/Extella respectively.
What this means is simple:
The Nasuverse, as a whole, has a massive advantage against To Aru because of the very nature of their abilities primarily screws with the fashion that Espers project their powers in the World and are FAR stronger due to having to consistently deal with the Planet re-asserting it's own Reality just as much(Nasu even has an interview that if 2 Reality Marbles intersect, the strongest one will override the weakest one, further showing that mechanic always happens even against Reality Marbles.)



And when there are characters that can explicitly deal with and destroy Reality Marbles... then what are the Espers gonna be able to do about it? They explicitly can destroy the very way they can use their powers on an even stronger version of it.
And what can they do against TYPEs that while sleeping, can override the Earth's Reality? Or the Trees of Emptiness which can explicitly bleach the Reality entirely? Nasuverse uses Reality Warping... as one of it's most basic mechanics.

I mean, two things: For one thing that should only be the case if there is a conflict between the reality warping. Like, Shirou's reality marble of swords, for example, would do nothing. His swords movements aren't dictated by the reality warping in the marble and could hence be overwritten. That's basically why you can just block them, after all, their movement isn't absolute reality warping stuff. So when it comes to it, Accelerator should be able to reflect them like normal.

Second, Accelerator has universal feats for his reflection, so he, in particular, should win out against galaxy-sized reality marbles and stuff like that. His reality alteration is just the more powerful in this case.

Me and Masterblack also saw that same attack has an extremely lengthy chant that needs to be spoken before it actually works...
So if you are only Universal in that instance due to that sort of thing? It kinda takes away from it by alot.
This is further NOT helped by the fact that taking the Novels immediately at their word isn't also how we do things because we have people doing that in Spacebattles with the Magical Gods and we got:
Multiversal Magical Gods that are Infinitely powerful even at Infinitely dividing selves that are faster than the concept of speed... that ultimately gets their asses easily kicked and worfed, especially by a character who explicitly didn't want to go full Majin but somehow has an attack that is Universal... but how it's described makes no sense and is x10 that... because.

And I say this AGREEING that To Aru is atleast Universal. It's clearly obvious the Author has a serious case of purple prose and actually trying to explain anything to atleast a decent degree.

Coronzon can shorten the chant to some degree, like she had done against Accelerator, but that aside, yeah. Coronzon has a huge weakness in only having one (known) universe level spell and that spell not being the fastest to cast.

As for your spacebattle issues... well, honestly, the power thing is a case of different regulations. There are countless phases in ToAru, i.e. different planes of reality. I feel like it is a matter of side ruling whether destroying multiple phases, i.e. multiple universe sized pocket realms, is a multiversal feats. It isn't the case here, since we take destroying a universe with many universe-sized pocket realms as still just being universe level, but I personally don't blame other sides for having a different perspective on that.

To that comes that the true magic gods are infinitely stronger than Othinus. Their power is so great that they had to divide it by infinite just to make it possible for the universe to just barely contain it, while full-power Othinus didn't have any such problems. They are as or more powerful than Othinus after dividing themselves.

When it comes to magic gods being stomped, your problem lies once again in assuming showings from one part of the story apply to a powerlevel of a character they shouldn't. Magic Gods never get their asses kicked at full power. They first nerf themselves to an infinitesimal bit of their power to be able to enter the world without destroying it and then Aleister hijacks the spell to nerf them further.

“Yes. That zombie girl is useful at times like this. Thanks to her background of actively drawing in a great number of cultures, she has an affinity for most anything.”
“But, High Priest,” cut in a girl’s voice that sounded even younger and also childish. “Miss Zombie’s theory is essentially the same as holding up opposing mirrors, right? By splitting up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the world whenever we move an arm or leg.”

“The Voodoo Zombie did an excellent job. I’m sure of it now that I’ve walked around the area a bit. The spell has adapted to our bodies, so now we can move through the world without breaking it.”

“Nee hee hee. Splitting up our power like opposing mirrors, huh?”

Niang-Niang laughed like a mischievous child. She wore a short white China dress and had a distinctive charm attached to her forehead which she poked at with her index finger.

“By infinitely dividing our infinite power, we’ve kept ourselves at a level just barely low enough for this world to contain. …But in a way, this is the worst possible transformation, don’t you think? You could just keep killing and killing us without end. Like a matryoshka doll or an onion, you would have to fight a nearly eternal battle to completely kill us.”

“There is no need to hold back. We are already full Magic Gods, so it would be unnatural to find any way for us to lose.”

“Do you really think I will let you do that?” asked a familiar voice.

“Oh, is that you, Aleister? I’m glad to see you’re still alive and kicking. Sorry about the other day. I really shouldn’t have let my anger get the better of me at my age.”

That was all it took for him to kill.

Rather than follow an exaggerated plan or make careful preparations, he acted on the rocky waves of his emotions.

The High Priest’s words hinted at the joy he felt in tormenting the weak. And worst of all, that “unenlightened man” did not see any of the ugliness inside himself. His surface consciousness did not at all think he was rubbing salt in the wound. He truly believed he was showing his appreciation toward the person he confronted.

“Then again, we have managed to find our feet here. We might be causing some trouble in your backyard and it might not even still be a city once we’re done with it, but try to forgive us. After all, we have pretty short fuses.”

“Found your feet? Do you mean that spell that infinitely divides the infinite capacity of a Magic God to trick the world by eternally layering existences that are just barely small enough for the world to contain?”

“Word gets to you quickly. Anyway, this might be an excellent opportunity for you, Aleister. Our power is limited to what can be explained in this world, so this would be the best time to kill us.”

Even that line had the implied caveat of “but it is still essentially impossible”.

For one thing, no one existed who could kill a being that the world could only just barely contain. Whether a Magic God’s power was divided by a billion or a trillion, a mere magician was still not enough to kill them.

The Magic God’s existence was infinitely layered like a matryoshka doll or an onion.

“If you can predict what must be done and what must happen, you can prepare for the next move. To enter this world, the Magic Gods would need to use a common spell on their own bodies. …Did you really think I wouldn’t take advantage of that? It was the perfect chance to overwrite your internal structures with whatever new parameters I wanted.”

“…”

The High Priest fell silent for a moment, but…

“No, that would not be possible. All you ever achieved was the failure you call Aiwass. How could you possibly prepare a spell that would affect not just one completed Magic God but affect a group of them in the exact same way? And you would need information on us specifically before putting together the spell.”

“Oh, come on,” said Aleister with no hint of emotion in his voice. “Why do you think I challenged the Magic Gods alone when Othinus was defeated? Wait. Don’t tell me. Surely you didn’t actually think a ‘human’ such as myself could be enraged by a simple stain in a journal.”

“You…don’t mean…”

“I had to take the necessary parameters by force. That was all. It did get me laughed at by some people I know, though.”

That was why he had not cared that he had lost.

He had only needed steal the Magic Gods’ parameters through direct contact and then make it back alive.

“I buried it inside you,” said Aleister.

That “human’s” cold voice seemed to challenge those gods of magic.

“What did I bury inside you, you ask? Tremble in fear, true Gremlin. There is great meaning in your doubt turning to impatience and then to fear. Listen, I no longer view you as a threat. You may have forgotten after living for so very long, but it is high time you gradually remembered what death feels like.”

“No,” denied the High Priest. “That is still impossible. The very foundation of your assertion is wrong. You claim to have prepared something powerful enough to defeat Magic Gods like us and you claim to have used this opportunity to inject it inside of us, but that would require swapping out Zombie’s spell. Whether you had a spell or not, you would need to defeat Zombie, a Magic God, to replace her spell! That’s no different from locking the key inside the vault. Your initial argument doesn’t hold up!!”

“True.”

Something heavy could be heard tearing through the wind.

The continuing fluctuation in the noise suggested it as slowly rotating as it flew. The Magic Gods reflexively turned toward the noise and they saw something fall from the distant night sky.

It landed right in the center of their group.

It was a cross forcibly made from intersecting steel beams.

It was wrapped in barbed wire and it resembled the magical rose symbol more than it did the original symbol of a monotheistic religion.

With a deafening roar and a cloud of dirt, the cross stabbed into the ground and it had something attached to it.

A human silhouette was nailed to the cross by countless tungsten steel spikes and it was tightly bound by barbed wire.

“Zom…bie?” muttered the High Priest when he saw the girl whose entire body was covered in stitches.

“I would prefer not to use such inelegant language,” said Aleister.

He was supposed to be cold and unfeeling both above and below the surface, but a note of contempt seeped into his voice.

“But by any chance, were you taking me for a fool?”

So as you see the only magic god that arguably was defeated at even an infinitesimal bit of their power was Zombie. However, we never see that fight and it was probably an ambush. For mages like Aleister and those of his former cabbal it is not further unusual to have specific spells that can draw out magic god level power. (There's a quote on that, but I'm too lazy to find it right now)

Aleister has his Blasting Rod spell, too, which makes it so that his attacks become x10 more powerful than the opponent expects and supposedly works at Magic God level (we have seen it amplify a big bang bomb x10).

So him defeating a single magic god with an infinitesimal amount of their true power in an ambush isn't further surprising.

When it comes to being faster than the concept of speed... weeeell, I'm not going to defend it, but it isn't quite made up either. The magic gods at full power can only exist in nonexistent places (due to their power being to great for the world). And nonexistent places are said to lack the concept of distance and time.

It may have been wrong to refer to that place as dark. In fact, the word “place” was not entirely accurate either. Non-existent things could not be explained. Nevertheless, a few voices lurked within where no one could interfere.

“We have no more attachment to Othinus herself, but this ending could hinder Kamijou Touma’s future. Then again, I doubt anyone but us could resolve this now that a magic god is involved. It would be a shame to have the direction thrown off so much for something so trivial.”

“High Priest[1], we’re thinking about influencing events by interfering with the existing world, aren’t we?”

“Don’t worry, Nephthys. The old man isn’t so foolish he wouldn’t calculate all that out. This shows just how different an existence Othinus was. Although I doubt she realized the truth behind Gremlin.”

“Othinus was a failure.”

“She reached the level of magic god, so there is no reason to be that cruel.”

“High Priest, you’re as kind as ever when it comes to judging others. If it didn’t come from looking down on everyone, you might have actually achieved enlightenment.”

“Nephthys, we are all lacking in some way. Othinus was remarkable yet went a bit too far, but that is just the kind of person Gremlin gathers.”

“Gremlin, the name of a plain fairy that is not dyed in the colors of any existing religion.”

“Instead of being a fusion of science and magic, it’s an organization that every magic god of every religion can take part in equally☆”

“Oh, Niang-Niang. Where have you been?”

“The concepts of distance and time don’t matter here, remember? And I can’t leave regardless. Even if I did, I’d just end up gathering unwanted attention on a global scale like Othinus. I was a hair’s breadth and an infinite distance away.”

Logically speed makes no sense in that place, although that doesn't really make the characters faster. It just means you can't do speed feats while they're there.

Well, it's either that for or the people upscale them from Lilith, who can do this:

“Magick: Flaming_Sword. Manifest thyself through descent of the Sephirah and bathe him in thy power.”

Even if the direct explosion missed, the shockwave alone may have been enough to obliterate a human body. This attack seemed to forget Coronzon’s supposed goal of protecting the temple. If the target dodged it out of fear, everyone here would be killed and the temple made from a decagonal heliport would be split apart from within.

“Babalon, Great Mother of Knowledge, reveal your scarlet light!!”

Aleister roared, but it was too slow.

At this rate, she would be broken.

Just then, Baby Lilith moved her small hand to draw a circle in the air.

But that made no sense.

Given the comparative speeds, it was too late to move your hand after Magick: Flaming_Sword had already been released. Nevertheless, it worked.

Consistency fell apart. Causality was ignored.

In other words, it was a miracle.

With a sound like a saw’s teeth bending, the tip of the Magick: Flaming_Sword was twisted off course. It was caught by the shield-like circle Lilith had drawn, it spun around, and it was trapped in a never-ending circuit.

Fucking with causality to act before the opponent, blatantly ignoring consistency, is what one could call beyond regular speed. But, even if the magic gods should technically be able to do it due to supposedly being all powerful in ToAru terms, it's not like any of them ever have shown as much. It's one thing to be able to do something and another to have the idea to do it, after all.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I mean, two things: For one thing that should only be the case if there is a conflict between the reality warping. Like, Shirou's reality marble of swords, for example, would do nothing. His swords movements aren't dictated by the reality warping in the marble and could hence be overwritten. That's basically why you can just block them, after all, their movement isn't absolute reality warping stuff. So when it comes to it, Accelerator should be able to reflect them like normal.

Except this is actually wrong because Noble Phantasm, by their very nature, are capable of ignoring most of the effects of the laws of physics:


That's why Arash's insane plan of shooting an arrow which is tied to a Roof with some guards on it and have it carry everyone on it closer to the area they need to go due to it being separated by a good mountain or two would actually work in the first place.
Accelerator's Vectors are still tied to his known Reality and him knowing exactly what's being thrown at him at that.

Second, Accelerator has universal feats for his reflection, so he, in particular, should win out against galaxy-sized reality marbles and stuff like that. His reality alteration is just the more powerful in this case.

Um no? That's like saying if we didn't have anything showing Goku can shrug off Reality Warping of that scale, he should be able to just shrug off being Reality Warped by Galactus because. Accelerator hasn't shown he can overwrite the Reality of a Reality Marble in any sense nor could he considering the problem is that he's acting precisely within someone's true sense of THEIR Reality and he's gonna get dragged into it period.

As for your spacebattle issues... well, honestly, the power thing is a case of different regulations. There are countless phases in ToAru, i.e. different planes of reality. I feel like it is a matter of side ruling whether destroying multiple phases, i.e. multiple universe sized pocket realms, is a multiversal feats. It isn't the case here, since we take destroying a universe with many universe-sized pocket realms as still just being universe level, but I personally don't blame other sides for having a different perspective on that.

To that comes that the true magic gods are infinitely stronger than Othinus. Their power is so great that they had to divide it by infinite just to make it possible for the universe to just barely contain it, while full-power Othinus didn't have any such problems. They are as or more powerful than Othinus after dividing themselves.

When it comes to magic gods being stomped, your problem lies once again in assuming showings from one part of the story apply to a powerlevel of a character they shouldn't. Magic Gods never get their asses kicked at full power. They first nerf themselves to an infinitesimal bit of their power to be able to enter the world without destroying it and then Aleister hijacks the spell to nerf them further.

Well here's the problem with that and why anytime I bring it up to the others, no one can take it seriously:
1. Phases has never been identified as Universal nor Multiversal, hell, the most I've seen people bring it up is just the name. And that's by people in SB who try and back it up with stuff from the novel. Hell, it runs completely against the Author stating there is only ONE Universe in Magical Index so a Phase cannot be a Multiverse or a Universe by proxy.

2. You know we don't precisely do that here for that exact reason. No one would ever accept that for the Magic Gods precisely due to how it doesn't correlate in the slightest and feels like it's just there to hype them And we didn't do that for Fate either when it came to their speed or power until later on and actual proof showed it was true or even series we got at Multiversal.

3. No, the biggest problem with Kamachi... is Kamachi himself. Kamachi loves using Purple Prose, rarely explains what anything in his universe is and primarily doesn't even explain it after the fact. Again, him putting all of that stuff up doesn't matter when it might as well amount to nothing(The Magic Gods, in all of their infinite beyond infinite capability... was defeated by a Zombie Spell, couldn't kill Aleister Crowley who was 1 vs. like 5-7, then lost to people far, far weaker to them due to some ridiculously dumb spell weakening them beyond infinite?). Again if people tried this with the Living Tribunal and we've seen the number of times he got his ass kicked, would anyone believe them? Or about the Ivory Kings that made Battleworld a thing?

The other stuff seems like it's just the barest thing but stuff about Casuality being ignored... is again something the Nasuverse can do.... and NOT just limited to Cu's Noble Phantasm:


Even extremely powerful Magus's can invert Cause and Effect which is comparable to an Authority(And why it's so damn hard to bypass Gae Bolg the second the name is called unless you can defy Fate(literally) just that damned hard). I'm pretty sure there are even a few non-Servant Mages that can mess with Casuality on some level and some like Ophelia with ridiculous levels of Mystic Eyes can screw with Possibilities(Like say... make Accelerator unable to use his Vectors but keep the consequences of everything else that leads to it) or someone like this man:

Karabo Frampton

Karabo Frampton (カラボー・フランプトン, Karabō Furanputon?) is one of the people involved in the Mystic Eyes Collection Train incident of Lord El-Melloi II Case Files. He is an Executor of the Holy Church.[2][3][4] Seven years prior to the Mystic Eyes Collection Train case, Karabo was the lead...

typemoon.fandom.com

Karabo possesses a pair of Mystic Eyes of Transience (泡影, Hōei?), a Jewel-ranked variant of Mystic Eyes of Retrocognition (過去視, Kakoshi?) that allow him to see the past in the form of bubbles. It seems to activate by touch, as he has a vision of Artoria Pendragon when he briefly touched Gray's hand. He loses control of them as time has passed, being increasingly subjected to past visions to the point where he forgets his own memories.

They are also able to bring forth recorded effects, such as a knife slash in the air, that are seen in the past and bring them into the present; the analogy of sea foam washing ashore is used, while visually it appears like bubbles rising to the surface and bursting. The effect has to happen in the same location as it was in the past as the Eyes can only transcend the Temporal Axis. As an attack in this manner is a truth that comes from the past, once the enemy enter its range there is no physical or spiritual way to defend against it, allowing it to harm even an existence such as a Servant.

Honestly, I don't really find it a point to go into the Magical Gods or anything else because it's Current Accelerator, he's not going into that level of insanity(yet...) and the closest I've seen outside of the "Universal Redirect"(Which at this point, I'm certain it's due to that long casting time had him figure out how to actually redirect it) is him being able to get his powers back due to Corozaon removing him from the "Tree of Sephirot" and somehow Accelerator plugged himself back in(or somehow made his own or whatever...).
But as I pointed it out before: The properties of Reality Marbles is not that Accelerator can just toss them aside, Reality Marbles is the User imprinting the Soul onto the World and their Say becomes Law:
Tsukihime Dokuhon PlusPeriod - TSUKIHIME Dictionary: Reality Marble [Unusual talent], p.179

Reality Marble [Unusual talent]
Intrinsic Field.
Originally referred to the alien common sense possessed by the beings called devils, but now also includes the unique boundary fields possessed by many people.
A subset of marble phantasm, it erodes reality and gives form to the user's imagined world. It is the sorcery closest to magic, and a forbidden art within the Association.
Unlike marble phantasm, however, the form of a reality marble cannot be freely adjusted. It is the manifestation of the user's one-and-only self, after all, so changing it with their will is impossible. On the other hand, since even things that are not part of nature can be influenced, perhaps it is actually even more amazing than marble phantasm, in a way.
Marble phantasm, which can change the world at will, but only has influence over elementals and nature. Reality marbles, which are limited in use to a single pattern, but force everything to submit to the user's personal rules. Though the methods are different and they are each limited in their own way, the fact remains that they are both powerful abilities that change the world.
…Properly speaking, reality marbles are only supposed to be used by elementals and devils, but given enough time it is possible for some advanced practitioners to complete a sorcery to give shape to their personal imagined world and create a reality marble of their own.
Of course, if anything that isn't an extension of nature like an elemental creates an alien world, the world itself will crush it. As a result, the upkeep of a reality marble requires a vast amount of energy, and most individuals are only capable of using one for a few minutes at a time.
Most of the 27 Dead Apostle Ancestors are capable of using reality marbles. Oh, and Nrvnqsr was able to escape the corrective influence of the world by using his reality marble within his own body. Way to go, Professor Chaos.

If the user straight out says Math is irrelevant(which it usually is in Reality Marbles because who cares about that), then it doesn't matter how well Accelerator computate, Math would not exist in their World. This is precisely why EMIYA's UBW is faster than Gilgamesh's GoB despite the fact it very well shouldn't due to Shirou not even having anything to throw out until seeing Gil's Blades, then copying it and then creating it and throwing it to intercept BEFORE Gil shoots him with it.

And we have seen Servants override Reality Marbles since Fate/Extra as the Moon Cell itself is made of Reality Marbles:
Fate/EXTRA- Week 1.awakening/binary heaven Day 4 - Leonardo B. Harwey conversation

Leo: Do you know what a reality marble is? It’s a thaumaturgical technique whereby one space is transformed into a completely different space. Some Servants are able to generate reality marbles. As it takes a great deal of energy to sustain a reality marble, most last only a few minutes. The school that housed prelims happened to be a reality marble generated by the Holy Grail. Besides the school as it appeared in the prelims, the current school, the Arena, and the Coliseum… All are individual reality marbles created by the incredible magic of the Holy Grail. To give you an idea of just how powerful the Holy Grail is… Even the most advanced supercomputer couldn’t sustain one reality marble this length of time.

And for the final bit, EMIYA can explicitly bring things out of his Reality Marble and use them without it coming out... just like a To Aru user as we've seen him bring out Copies of Noble Phantasms which would require UBW... without UBW in use:

Which is also where the Projection and Reinforcement(and the BS Mimicry) comes from.

Or Iskandar when he's able to bring out a single Soldier for Report in F/Zero or basically Nvrsqr Chaos(Fabro) considering that's precisely how he's able to even do what he does in the first place by hiding his Reality Marble in himself.
So again, a Reality Marble would be able to stop an Esper's abilities from working for that precise reason. It's basically a better version of what we've seen from To Aru and actually has to deal with something more ridiculous like the Nasuverse Earth(which basically helps control the infinite possibilities of the Planet, helps create Defenses FOR the Planet like Excalibur and Rhongomyniad, can potentially create or designate Beasts like with Primate Murder and even when Human History is wiped twice, still have more than enough power to keep summoning Servants and be a pain in the ass for those it's fighting against.) vs. To Aru's... none.

 

[Type-Rey]

This is " My Reality Warping dick is bigger than your My Reality Warping dick " the thread.

It's certainly..SB-ish ha

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

...Now you are saying it like that, I don't feel like wanting to participate in this thread anymore...

 

[shade0180]

We make fun of it in the same fashion we make fun of how SB loves to go nuts with RWBY feats for some insane reason and outside of Sufficient Velocity, the ONLY people who try and take RWBY seriously as a VS. series(When even Critics and a good number of fanboys admit how terrible the scaling is).
The same reason we go after Worm or Multiversal Gilgamesh or ANYTHING to do with Seven Deadly Sins, etc.

There's no hate, it's just major mocking of people who go extremely overboard in protecting their series to basically make up shit on the fly and people just accept it rather than do any true research of their own.

Basically we got tired of GB deception we just mocked shit if shit goes to that level.

 

[Rev97]

Depends on what version. Before NT22, he’s gets far but loses to some high-tiers like strong Divine Spirits, Beasts, and even Grands for the same reason he struggled against Gabriel. Post NT-22 he steamrolls through the verse minus some significant enough time-travelers like Goetia

Also the hell is up with this Ea or Reality Marble shutting off Esper powers headcanon? Latter is completely unrelated to the other two to argue that interaction in any way

If we’re talking some Esper whose power relies on creating a pocket dimension for their powers to function on that’s great for space-destroying attacks like Ea or Altera’s NP, or another Reality Marble to destroy but that’s not the case for Acceleraor

 

[Type-Rey]

Oh boy, i'm not getting into this cause ..fuck this shit but i'm only gonna present the frame in which this shit should be discussed as to keep in track and to avoid wank attempts or useless extrapolations.

You basically have a contest between two types of Reality Warping. What you basically need to establish is which one is higher tiered as to ascertained which one would be able to overwrite or impose itself on the other based on concrete feats, functionality , scope ..etc .

Just as an example, with Reality Marbles, it's made clear if two were put against one another , the one would higher magical foundation or energy would come up on top even even if they were equal, you'd still have ways to kill your opponent.

Or as an another example, with Marble Phantasms which play by Nasu Earth Rules and so if something comes along that doesn't play by those rules , it can in principle overide whatever the fuck a MP user would do.

Of course, another thing you have to establish is is there's any case for equivalence or any commonality between the two abilities .

So, i took the time to write down all of this shit between a bussiness meeting so....

Don't fuck it up. Don't SB it.

 

[Rev97]

Oh boy, i'm not getting into this cause ..fuck this shit but i'm only gonna present the frame in which this shit should be discussed as to keep in track and to avoid wank attempts or useless extrapolations.

You basically have a contest between two types of Reality Warping. What you basically need to establish is which one is higher tiered as to ascertained which one would be able to overwrite or impose itself on the other based on concrete feats, functionality , scope ..etc .

Just as an example, with Reality Marbles, it's made clear if two were put against one another , the one would higher magical foundation or energy would come up on top even even if they were equal, you'd still have ways to kill your opponent.

Or as an another example, with Marble Phantasms which play by Nasu Earth Rules and so if something comes along that doesn't play by those rules , it can in principle overide whatever the fuck a MP user would do.

Of course, another thing you have to establish is is there's any case for equivalence or any commonality between the two abilities .

So, i took the time to write down all of this shit between a bussiness meeting so....

Don't fuck it up. Don't SB it.

Or don’t argue this level of autism and mental gymnastics to begin with. Especially with context in Fate being deliberately ignored and poor understanding of Toaru mechanics to push this headcanon.

Accelerator isn’t creating a space for a foundation that his powers rely on. Most he does is like all Espers, emit a minute field of energy around himself involuntarily (AIM) as a side effect of using his powers.

Ea and Altera’s feats come from their power to destroy space. It was repeated ad nauseum for Enuma Elish in Fate/Zero as how it destroyed Iskandar’s Reality Marble and Altera’s sword let’s her destroy the space making up sectors in the Moon Cell both to destroy and to travel to other parts and we see it in her attack animation. Neither are cancelling out Espers powers minus hypothetical ones that create pocket dimensions

Space destroying attacks are fine and dandy but current Accel has easily stopped attacks from Coronzon who both literally claws her way out of being sent to other timelines by tearing away through space and time with her bare hands and uses Flaming Sword, which is stated twice to be the same as Gungnir, AkA Enuma Elish on steroids which Accel stopped

Also, LEL at Coronzon’s chant being used as an argument when the average NP in Nasuland requires anything from their true name to autistic rambling to be utilized and the power of spells by Mages determined by how many verses they chant prior (Magic Resistance skill for Servants as reference). Talking is a free action as an unspoken rule across fiction.

That’s why you got Kanzaki being able to call out both her true sorcery name and attack in time to intercept a photon beam already mere inches away from Touma’s face with ease. Such a dumb, desperate argument to even attempt.

 

[Irradiance]

Except this is actually wrong because Noble Phantasm, by their very nature, are capable of ignoring most of the effects of the laws of physics:


That's why Arash's insane plan of shooting an arrow which is tied to a Roof with some guards on it and have it carry everyone on it closer to the area they need to go due to it being separated by a good mountain or two would actually work in the first place.
Accelerator's Vectors are still tied to his known Reality and him knowing exactly what's being thrown at him at that.

Dude, the same can be said about all esper powers and magic, both of which Accelerator can reflect just fine. You're also wrong about "Accelerator needs to know exactly what's being thrown at him". He doesn't. He reflected magic long before he had any fucking idea what it was. He also reflected most of Kakine's thousands of law of nature breaking energies without any trouble before analyzing how they worked. (The rest only coming through due to whitelist problems)

He only needs to understand the vectors, i.e. directions, of what is being thrown at him in order to manipulate the vectors. Not the energy or whatever the phenomenon is in general. And Accelerator can reflect the 11D bullshit of teleportation just fine, so as far as vectors go you need something truly esoteric to get past him.

Um no? That's like saying if we didn't have anything showing Goku can shrug off Reality Warping of that scale, he should be able to just shrug off being Reality Warped by Galactus because. Accelerator hasn't shown he can overwrite the Reality of a Reality Marble in any sense nor could he considering the problem is that he's acting precisely within someone's true sense of THEIR Reality and he's gonna get dragged into it period.

They can maybe shift the reality around him, but nah on the false equivalence with Goku. Goku isn't using reality warping to accomplish his shit, so there is no reality warping vs reality warping conflict. It would simply be matter being rewritten by reality warping. Accel has been shown to be able to affect energy greater than the entire mass-energy in those pocket dimensions, meaning that he has demonstrated to affect more stuff in practice. Heck, wanna talk about AoE? Remember that Accel shook an entire galaxy with his ability as well. And that while adding his own version of the Sephiroth tree to the cosmos. (i.e. basically creating a new type of magic/supernatural power that didn't priorly exist)

And c'mon, is the last part really supposed to be an argument? I can literally give that back the other way. A reality marble has never demonstrated overwriting Accelerators Personal Reality nor could it considering that they are trying to affect Accels own true reality.

Well here's the problem with that and why anytime I bring it up to the others, no one can take it seriously:
Phases has never been identified as Universal nor Multiversal, hell, the most I've seen people bring it up is just the name. And that's by people in SB who try and back it up with stuff from the novel. Hell, it runs completely against the Author stating there is only ONE Universe in Magical Index so a Phase cannot be a Multiverse or a Universe by proxy.

2. You know we don't precisely do that here for that exact reason. No one would ever accept that for the Magic Gods precisely due to how it doesn't correlate in the slightest and feels like it's just there to hype them And we didn't do that for Fate either when it came to their speed or power until later on and actual proof showed it was true or even series we got at Multiversal.

3. No, the biggest problem with Kamachi... is Kamachi himself. Kamachi loves using Purple Prose, rarely explains what anything in his universe is and primarily doesn't even explain it after the fact. Again, him putting all of that stuff up doesn't matter when it might as well amount to nothing(The Magic Gods, in all of their infinite beyond infinite capability... was defeated by a Zombie Spell, couldn't kill Aleister Crowley who was 1 vs. like 5-7, then lost to people far, far weaker to them due to some ridiculously dumb spell weakening them beyond infinite?). Again if people tried this with the Living Tribunal and we've seen the number of times he got his ass kicked, would anyone believe them? Or about the Ivory Kings that made Battleworld a thing?

Yeah, but you see I personally don't really consider it relevant whether an author calls something universe or not. I understand the practices are different here, and are not arguing to change them, but I feel like one should acknowledge that there are valid other ways to handle it.

Like, think about this: There is an infinitely large 3D space. In that space are floating spheres, each of those spheres 50 billion lightyears in radius and holding countless galaxies. One author calls the 3D space "universe" and the spheres "galaxy bubbles". Another author calls the spheres "universes" and the 3D space "multiverse". Should destroying the 3D space get different rankings for the different authors?

This sides rules would say yes, but one can also argue that since these things are the same in practice, they should also get the same ranking. Yeah, that might mean that destroying the universe in the first author's sense is multiversal. Or it could mean that destroying the multiverse in the second author's sense is universe level. That sounds strange, but personally, I have no problem with that.

This is not purely theoretical either btw. In Owari no Chronicle a universe is what in Index would be called a Phase and the Multiverse is just multiple of such universes, i.e. would equalize to multiple Phases.

Also... honestly, ToAru is neither difficult nor confusing in writing. Most stuff is explained pretty clearly. Of course, it would be difficult if you only get second-hand explanation and prod it for possibilities of feats just being metaphorical.

The other stuff seems like it's just the barest thing but stuff about Casuality being ignored... is again something the Nasuverse can do.... and NOT just limited to Cu's Noble Phantasm:


Even extremely powerful Magus's can invert Cause and Effect which is comparable to an Authority(And why it's so damn hard to bypass Gae Bolg the second the name is called unless you can defy Fate(literally) just that damned hard). I'm pretty sure there are even a few non-Servant Mages that can mess with Casuality on some level and some like Ophelia with ridiculous levels of Mystic Eyes can screw with Possibilities(Like say... make Accelerator unable to use his Vectors but keep the consequences of everything else that leads to it) or someone like this man:

Karabo Frampton

Karabo Frampton (カラボー・フランプトン, Karabō Furanputon?) is one of the people involved in the Mystic Eyes Collection Train incident of Lord El-Melloi II Case Files. He is an Executor of the Holy Church.[2][3][4] Seven years prior to the Mystic Eyes Collection Train case, Karabo was the lead...

typemoon.fandom.com

Never argued they can't. Although, Cu's Noble Phantasm manipulates causality for an entirely different result.

Honestly, I don't really find it a point to go into the Magical Gods or anything else because it's Current Accelerator, he's not going into that level of insanity(yet...) and the closest I've seen outside of the "Universal Redirect"(Which at this point, I'm certain it's due to that long casting time had him figure out how to actually redirect it)

The casting time had nothing to do with it, no idea where you get that random assumption from. No idea how you even think Accelerator should analyze something from a chant. He's not a magician and doesn't manipulate magic in a fashion a magician would.

is him being able to get his powers back due to Corozaon removing him from the "Tree of Sephirot" and somehow Accelerator plugged himself back in(or somehow made his own or whatever...).

He made his own tree, since Coronzon as a being of a higher Aeon is immune to stuff confined to the regular Sephiroth (or at least the parts in the lower end, like most magic). He also quite possibly needed it just to use his new power, but it didn't have much to do with his old one.

But as I pointed it out before: The properties of Reality Marbles is not that Accelerator can just toss them aside, Reality Marbles is the User imprinting the Soul onto the World and their Say becomes Law:
Tsukihime Dokuhon PlusPeriod - TSUKIHIME Dictionary: Reality Marble [Unusual talent], p.179

Yes Yes, same as esper powers.

If the user straight out says Math is irrelevant(which it usually is in Reality Marbles because who cares about that), then it doesn't matter how well Accelerator computate, Math would not exist in their World. This is precisely why EMIYA's UBW is faster than Gilgamesh's GoB despite the fact it very well shouldn't due to Shirou not even having anything to throw out until seeing Gil's Blades, then copying it and then creating it and throwing it to intercept BEFORE Gil shoots him with it.

Yeah, similar to how esper powers work according to the rules the esper in question thinks they work in. Like how Kakine's powers don't give a shit about physics since that's how he thinks it should be or how Gunha can asspull stuff because he thinks he can.

So again, a Reality Marble would be able to stop an Esper's abilities from working for that precise reason. It's basically a better version of what we've seen from To Aru and actually has to deal with something more ridiculous like the Nasuverse Earth(which basically helps control the infinite possibilities of the Planet, helps create Defenses FOR the Planet like Excalibur and Rhongomyniad, can potentially create or designate Beasts like with Primate Murder and even when Human History is wiped twice, still have more than enough power to keep summoning Servants and be a pain in the ass for those it's fighting against.) vs. To Aru's... none.

Nah, it literally is the same thing just that their powers focus more on forming a landscape, while most esper powers modify the existing landscape in a specific way. With a focus on MOST. There is an esper that literally has the kind of environment manifestation too: The Beginning Child. Her power reality warps her surroundings into whichever landscape is optimal for a living being of her choice. And that affect is so powerful that it could override the big bang. And Accelerator as the strongest Esper scales above her in ability potency.

 

[Rev97]

Oh noes, Muh special snowflake magic in Fate ignores physics, Accel is totally fucked now.

Oh wait…

Therefore, if Celty Sturluson had actually knew about this--

The "Shadow" could be a spear and a shield more powerful than any other material on this planet. It could even be the thread used to connect Earth and Mars together.

It was a power that had completely surpassed the common sense of science and the laws of physics. Celty herself was not able to understand it properly. It was a shadow of absolute strength that was created unconsciously.

In order words, she was able to do this because of the anger she felt.

If the underground doctor, who lived with her, knew about this, there would be no doubt that he would be jealous of Shizuo.

"This, how are we going to deal with him?"

[I don't think he can be defeated by physical means. Let's just wait for him to enter a state of hypoxemia.]

Celty made the density of the shadow bigger than usual, thus blocking the supply of oxygen by blocking the air.

This "suffocation attack" created by the interweaving and overlapping of various special conditions could be said to be one of the rare weaknesses of the invincible reflection.

If it were a normal person, this would be enough to decide who was the winner, and the loser. But--

This young man was the existence known as the #1 of Academy City -- [Accelerator]

He was another existence that wasn't ordinary, even within the category of Espers.

Bang..... Celty and Shizuo felt the sound of the air shaking.

In the next instant, alongside a violent sound of destruction, the top of the black sphere was torn by something unseen.

"What!?"

This....

Next to Shizuo who shouted out loud, the headless Celty's "vision" felt it.

From the top of the sphere, two colorless wings grew out--

....He hasn't even shown his full strength yet!

The thing that destroyed Celty's shadow, something that ignored the laws of physics, was indeed something "from another dimension" that also did not obey the laws of physics.

“Indeed, you can control matter that doesn’t exist in this world.”

Accelerator only wagged his index finger and made a ‘feel free to do your worst’ expression.

“The laws written in school textbooks don’t work on them, and light and electromagnetic waves that come in contact with the Dark Matter get twisted into energy that can’t possibly exist. So using energy calculation algorithms based on rules of this world will definitely have flaws.”

The killing intent between the two had risen dramatically.

This crossroad was now fully saturated with the breath of death.

“Then all I have to do is include them in my calculations. To change the laws of this world into a new world that includes your Dark Matter and create a new algorithm, then it’s checkmate.”

“Using your vector transformation… to control my Dark Matter…?”

“Don’t you think I can do it?”

“Ha, do you think you can gauge the entirety of the depths of my ability just by doing that?”

“Your depth is actually quite shallow.”

“…!?”

“Shallow to the point I don’t even need to try and gauge it!”

A sound of explosions ripped through the sky.

It only took an instant for the two to clash.

The victor in the match between the #1 and #2 had been decided.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

of course, this shitshow

 

[Masterblack06]

Oh noes, Muh special snowflake magic in Fate ignores physics, Accel is totally fucked now.

Oh wait…

Bro you just got here come on now

 

[Rev97]

Bro you just got here come on now

I’m just hamming up my arguments. Is that against the rules?

 

[Masterblack06]

I’m just hamming up my arguments. Is that against the rules?

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

@Irradiance I'll hold off on my reply to you because it seems we have gotten some... unwanted persons coming into this thread to start shit.

Or don’t argue this level of autism and mental gymnastics to begin with. Especially with context in Fate being deliberately ignored and poor understanding of Toaru mechanics to push this headcanon.

Oh boy context, the hot word that comes from SB that is about as reliable to as any building made in China... or anything made in China for China. I would honestly like to see this. Especially when you most of the time, don't even say anything to actually back up your words.

Accelerator isn’t creating a space for a foundation that his powers rely on. Most he does is like all Espers, emit a minute field of energy around himself involuntarily (AIM) as a side effect of using his powers.

... That's basically the same fashion for how EMIYA and Iskandar summon parts of their Reality Marble to the surface... hell, that's basically why EMIYA's and Shirou's Projection, Reinforcement and their Mimicry comes from!

Ea and Altera’s feats come from their power to destroy space. It was repeated ad nauseum for Enuma Elish in Fate/Zero as how it destroyed Iskandar’s Reality Marble and Altera’s sword let’s her destroy the space making up sectors in the Moon Cell both to destroy and to travel to other parts and we see it in her attack animation. Neither are cancelling out Espers powers minus hypothetical ones that create pocket dimensions

Ah yes, the Sword that can literally destroy Realities(Which that is what Textures even are)... can't destroy an Esper's AIM field meanwhile one which can shear off everything that's in a Reality Marble can't do the same:

And considering that would include the Afterlife, The Underworld and the other various things that make up that Reality, I would say that would give a ridiculous level of "Espers getting fucked" that I have seen.

Space destroying attacks are fine and dandy but current Accel has easily stopped attacks from Coronzon who both literally claws her way out of being sent to other timelines by tearing away through space and time with her bare hands and uses Flaming Sword, which is stated twice to be the same as Gungnir, AkA Enuma Elish on steroids which Accel stopped

...Altera's attack literally sheared the entire Dimension... and it wasn't even a True Name Release. She literally destroyed the Reality in the Reality Marble, right down to the very wind and air(The only reason anyone is alive is due to being more or less souls and having the power to avoid being vaped).
Fate/Grand Order material I - CHARACTER profile: Altera, p.072-081 [T]

Noble Phantasm
Photon Ray: Sword of the War God
Rank: A　　Type: Anti-Army Noble Phantasm　　Range: 1~30　　Maximum Target: 200 People
Photon Ray.
A Noble Phantasm that put together the valor and fear that awed all European nation as the "Scourge of God" or "Divine Reprimand", and the anecdotes of having acquired the sword of the War God Mars-- or so it is thought.
The Noble Phantasm "Sword of the War God" has the shape of a long sword but, for some reason, its design somehow gives a futurist impression.
The blade composed by three-colored light is said to be able to destroy "any and all existences" in the world.
Once its true power is released, both Rank and classification rise up.

And I already brought proof of that when at the end of the day a Reality Marble is an intruding Reality that would replace the current Reality... again, what you think constitutes as a Reality?

Also, LEL at Coronzon’s chant being used as an argument when the average NP in Nasuland requires anything from their true name to autistic rambling to be utilized and the power of spells by Mages determined by how many verses they chant prior (Magic Resistance skill for Servants as reference). Talking is a free action as an unspoken rule across fiction.

...


Yeah such a "Long Chant" from both of them... You also realize that in truth, all you actually have to say... is it's True Name right?
The long chant is legit superfluous and is just there to add to the "epicness" of a scene like how you don't actually need to do an invocation of Shikai when you are strong enough and can bring it out in Bleach.
And secondly, the number of chants and verses for Modern Day Mages is due to the loss of Mana and the impossibility to get things like High Speed Divine Words to become as OP as Medea. Modern Day Mages can still be terrors in their own right like Touko or bullshit on toast like Zelretch, Aoko and grown up Rin and they barely use chants and just cut the middle man entirely.

EDIT: Ah yeah, that Flaming Sword that ultimately didn't do jack and Accelerator only "redirected", he never destroyed.

That’s why you got Kanzaki being able to call out both her true sorcery name and attack in time to intercept a photon beam already mere inches away from Touma’s face with ease. Such a dumb, desperate argument to even attempt.

Oh joy, even if we go by that somehow being the sole trigger for FTL speed, then they would only match Servants in speed and Servants are still Microseconds tier Reaction levels faster... you know, that same point that went nuts over with Garou and Platinum Sperm?

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Oh noes, Muh special snowflake magic in Fate ignores physics, Accel is totally fucked now.

Oh wait…

Jesus, that Purple Prose is just disgusting...
And all for something that virtually all Shonen shows do and again Noble Phantasms virtually ignore the laws of physics in the first place....

 

[Rev97]

@Irradiance I'll hold off on my reply to you because it seems we have gotten some... unwanted persons coming into this thread to start shit.



Oh boy context, the hot word that comes from SB that is about as reliable to as any building made in China... or anything made in China for China. I would honestly like to see this. Especially when you most of the time, don't even say anything to actually back up your words.

Translation: RRREEEEEE

... That's basically the same fashion for how EMIYA and Iskandar summon parts of their Reality Marble to the surface... hell, that's basically why EMIYA's and Shirou's Projection, Reinforcement and their Mimicry comes from!

And? Ea and Altera’s feats come from destroying space itself. Current Accel has already laughed off attacks of either nature on a far higher scale than either could, no matter the endless purple prose Nasu or Urobuchi write describing them.

Ah yes, the Sword that can literally destroy Realities(Which that is what Textures even are)... can't destroy an Esper's AIM field meanwhile one which can shear off everything that's in a Reality Marble can't do the same:

Now whose relying on Purple Prose? All that worthless conjecture for a big nothing to talk about. Othinus Gungnir and Coronzon’s Magik Flaming Sword > Your wanked EA
[/QUOTE]

And considering that would include the Afterlife, The Underworld and the other various things that make up that Reality, I would say that would give a ridiculous level of "Espers getting fucked" that I have seen.

Othinus destroyed that and much more with throwing Gungnir. Magik Flaming Sword > Gungnir.

...Altera's attack literally sheared the entire Dimension... and it wasn't even a True Name Release. She literally destroyed the Reality in the Reality Marble, right down to the very wind and air(The only reason anyone is alive is due to being more or less souls and having the power to avoid being vaped).
Fate/Grand Order material I - CHARACTER profile: Altera, p.072-081 [T]

I’m missing the part where I’m supposed to be impressed. All I’m seeing is flowery writing and typical Nasu speak that’s still laughably below what current Accel has performed.

Altera’s in particular sucked by feats. Dimension still mostly there and she didn’t even fully destroy the immediate surrounding buildings with that attack. And if Ea was this almighty power-nullifying attack, than it should have just negated Excalibur instead of the very brief power struggle they had before Ea overpowers it.

And I already brought proof of that when at the end of the day a Reality Marble is an intruding Reality that would replace the current Reality... again, what you think constitutes as a Reality?

Good thing Accelerator isn’t creating a pocket dimension to conflict with Marble Phantasms, just the energy emitted from himself.

...


Yeah such a "Long Chant" from both of them... You also realize that in truth, all you actually have to say... is it's True Name right?
The long chant is legit superfluous and is just there to add to the "epicness" of a scene like how you don't actually need to do an invocation of Shikai when you are strong enough and can bring it out in Bleach.

And Coronzon can fire off her spell without even using the entire chant anyway, meaning your argument is worthless.

And secondly, the number of chants and verses for Modern Day Mages is due to the loss of Mana and the impossibility to get things like High Speed Divine Words to become as OP as Medea. Modern Day Mages can still be terrors in their own right like Touko or bullshit on toast like Zelretch, Aoko and grown up Rin and they barely use chants and just cut the middle man entirely.

Nothing of value here.

Oh joy, even if we go by that somehow being the sole trigger for FTL speed, then they would only match Servants in speed and Servants are still Microseconds tier Reaction levels faster... you know, that same point that went nuts over with Garou and Platinum Sperm?

Theres a few more I can pull up.

Don’t know why we’re talking One Punch Man now. First bringing up SB and now this like I’m supposed to even know what your saying. Stay on topic buddy.

 

[Type-Rey]

Ea

Ea flat out fucks out space and time
"
Air pressure faults, compressed and smashed against each other, become a pseudo-fault in time and space that pulverizes all who oppose it.
With output matching or even exceeding Excalibur, it is without a doubt the sword that "cut the world"."

"Anti-world noble phantasm that destroys everything. This noble phantasm is the maximum power state of Ea, Sword of Rupture. Dislocations of compressed intertwined layers of wind pressure create a pseudo time-space dislocation to cut through space. This unbelievable power cuts the World itself, completely pulverizing all enemies. "

Altera

Altera's Sword of Mars is literally the concept of "War" in a sword form which aside other things managed to give trouble to a being who was buffed against all the Earth's shit and who was also buffed to absorb anything they threw at her.

Yes, they have instances where they wreck space, but that's an oversimplification.

average NP in Nasuland requires anything from their true name

Only for full effects / damage.
They can fire them without full name releases ( See Gawain in LE).

I’m just hamming up my arguments. Is that against the rules?

You're pretty bad faith when it comes to Fate shit.
That much is painfully obvious.
Do try to keep it out if that's not much to ask.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Translation: RRREEEEEE

That's funny because that's all you are doing right now...

And? Ea and Altera’s feats come from destroying space itself. Current Accel has already laughed off attacks of either nature on a far higher scale than either could, no matter the endless purple prose Nasu or Urobuchi write describing them.

Again, Ea and Photon Ray literally destroys Reality and everything that makes up Reality. They don't just explicitly fuck with space-time and we clearly see the difference as only Lostbelt Zeus explicitly points it out.

Now whose relying on Purple Prose? All that worthless conjecture for a big nothing to talk about. Othinus Gungnir and Coronzon’s Magik Flaming Sword > Your wanked EA

You seriously need to read the definition of purple prose if you are going to say that is considering that's literally telling you what a Texture even is. That's the anti-thesis of Purple Prose.

I’m missing the part where I’m supposed to be impressed. All I’m seeing is flowery writing and typical Nasu speak that’s still laughably below what current Accel has performed.

Yeah that flowery language like you aren't doing yourself believing we should take the glurge that Kamachi puts out at his word when we didn't even do that immediately with Nasu.

Good thing Accelerator isn’t creating a pocket dimension to conflict with Marble Phantasms, just the energy emitted from himself.

Good thing that Noble Phantasms can straight up ignore the very laws in which Accelerator's Vectors work, if not outright destroy them or make them worthless...

And Coronzon can fire off her spell without even using the entire chant anyway, meaning your argument is worthless.

No she can't, Irradiance even agreed with me on that, you damned idiot.

Nothing of value here.

And neither is most of your rebuttal.

Theres a few more I can pull up.

Don’t know why we’re talking One Punch Man now. First bringing up SB and now this like I’m supposed to even know what your saying. Stay on topic buddy.

Man, you are stupid and dense all at once. But hey, keep on being you as I did try and act courteous until you already unveiled your true colors.

 

[Rev97]

Ea flat out fucks out space and time
"
Air pressure faults, compressed and smashed against each other, become a pseudo-fault in time and space that pulverizes all who oppose it.
With output matching or even exceeding Excalibur, it is without a doubt the sword that "cut the world"."

"Anti-world noble phantasm that destroys everything. This noble phantasm is the maximum power state of Ea, Sword of Rupture. Dislocations of compressed intertwined layers of wind pressure create a pseudo time-space dislocation to cut through space. This unbelievable power cuts the World itself, completely pulverizing all enemies. "


Altera's Sword of Mars is literally the concept of "War" in a sword form which aside other things managed to give trouble to a being who was buffed against all the Earth's shit and who was also buffed to absorb anything they threw at her.

Yes, they have instances where they wreck space, but that's an oversimplification.


Only for full effects / damage.
They can fire them without full name releases ( See Gawain in LE).


You're pretty bad faith when it comes to Fate shit.
That much is painfully obvious.
Do try to keep it out if that's not much to ask.

Sure as long as the other side holds to the same standards, I’ll cut the crap and gladly argue in good faith from here on, not even disputing where Fate is held here either

That description for Ea, apply that on a universal scale and you get Othinus throwing Gungnir against Touma that destroyed the whole universe being thrown.

Coronzon’s Flaming Sword is stated twice to be of the same powers and if anything should be stronger since Touma couldn’t stop it like he did Gungnir

Lola Stuart, Great Demon Coronzon, moved her lips in a bewitching and mechanical way.

No.

A different face clearly appeared from her long, long blonde hair.

“Magick: Flaming_Sword. Manifest thyself through descent of the Sephirah and bathe him in thy power.”

It happened suddenly.

“No!”

Kamijou Touma must not have had much of a choice.

But the small god managed to direct a shout of despair toward the swiftly moving boy.

“Wait, human!! The world’s reference point is not enough to suppress this attack!!”

Yes.

Magic God Othinus had once obliterated Kamijou Touma’s body with the brute force of her crossbow.

A moment later, everyone witnessed that instant.

With a dull sound, that right hand and Kamijou Touma himself were utterly destroyed.

“Every number is the same. My right hand contains Nuit of Resurrection. Watch as the possibilities expand and surpass the bounds of the finite. My left hand contains Hadit of Vengeance. The smallest point gathers and concentrates all forces to create a single meaning. Thus, an attack shall be released from the infinite acceleration of the Circle of Ra-Hoor-Khuit and shall appear on the surface layer of this world.”

This was the ultimate attack that rivaled a Magic God’s lance and had utterly destroyed a certain boy despite the presence of Imagine Breaker.