Greatest monarch rulers in history

[Aurelian]

For me, figures that come to mind with political acumen, military talent, societal and cultural reforms, and long sighted administrative gains are those like:

- Julius Caesar
- Augustus
- Cyrus the Great
- Darius the Great
- Napoleon I Bonaparte
- Marcus Aurelius
- Aurelian

Anyone else you guys would say?

 

[Maddie]

Roman Empire
-Augustus
-Trajan
-Hadrian
-Marcus Aurelius
-Aurelian AND Probus
-Maurice
-Heraclius
-Theophilos
-Basil II
-John Komnenos
-Constantine XI

 

[Aurelian]

United States
-George Washington
-Thomas Jefferson
-James Madison
-Grover Cleveland
-Theodore Roosevelt
-Dwight Eisenhower
-Ronald Reafan

>monarchs

 

[Cryso Agori]

Could Genghis Khan be considered a monarch?

 

[Aurelian]

"Khagan: literally meaning Khan of Khans."

Yes

 

[Adamant soul]

English Monarchs

Elizabeth I
Edward I
William I

 

[Solar Sailor]

United States
-George Washington
-Thomas Jefferson
-James Madison
-Grover Cleveland
-Theodore Roosevelt
-Dwight Eisenhower
-Ronald Reafan

No

Presidents by design are not monarchs

Hamilton would’ve jizzed in his pants if washington turned out to be a Monarch

 

[Maddie]

No

Presidents by design are not monarchs

Hamilton would’ve jizzed in his pants if washington turned out to be a Monarch

Caesar was listed above and he was moreso a military dictator than monarch, hell Rome wasn't really a monarchy like Kings until Diocletian. Assumed the tread was for leaders in general

I like Frederick II

 

[Aurelian]

Caesar was listed above and he was moreso a military dictator than monarch, hell Rome wasn't really a monarchy like Kings until Diocletian. Assumed the tread was for leaders in general

I like Frederick II

Dictator for life and Consul et Perpetum can more or less be equated with him being more then a secular ruler at the near end of Republican Rome but listing US presidents is pretty silly

 

[Maddie]

Dictator for life and Consul et Perpetum can more or less be equated with him being more then a secular ruler at the near end of Republican Rome but listing US presidents is pretty silly

I removed the list

Cyrus the Great and Darius the Great are probably the greatest leaders in all Iranian history. Shapur is up there given how effectively he terrorized Rome

 

[NostalgiaFan]

Surprised no one has mentioned Charlemagne yet.

 

[Maddie]

Surprised no one has mentioned Charlemagne yet.

For German monarchs he was high up, he had issues but he was good. Reunited Europe to a degree while the Byzantines were still going through their crisis

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Sargon of Akkad(Not the YouTuber that pilfered the name. The actual one from history).
Thutmose III of Egypt.
Ramses the Great.
Augustus, I guess.(Even though the prick gave up my boy Cicero to that utter clown Marc Antony)

 

[Maddie]

Sargon of Akkad(Not the YouTuber that pilfered the name. The actual one from history).
Thutmose III of Egypt.
Ramses the Great.
Augustus, I guess.(Even though the prick gave up my boy Cicero to that utter clown Marc Antony)

Sargon was the first great leader in ancient history that wasn't mythical like Gilgamesh

Wasn't Ramesses kinda a propaganda master and we don't know if he is really as good as claimed? Or was he legit great and Kadesh was just a little blemish on his record?

Augustus did pardon Cicero and publish all his works after his death, so it wasn't like Augustus hated Cicero or denied his greatness

 

[Adamant soul]

Augustus did pardon Cicero and publish all his works after his death, so it wasn't like Augustus hated Cicero or denied his greatness

Of course not, he did what he had to do to appease Marc Antony because he needed the guy's support going forward.

There was nothing personal in it, he was just being a politician and thinking in the long-term.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Sargon was the first great leader in ancient history that wasn't mythical like Gilgamesh

Wasn't Ramesses kinda a propaganda master and we don't know if he is really as good as claimed? Or was he legit great and Kadesh was just a little blemish on his record?

Augustus did pardon Cicero and publish all his works after his death, so it wasn't like Augustus hated Cicero or denied his greatness

You could assume so, but its generally accepted that he accomplished all that he said he did in battle, even if there're obvious embellishments with some of them.

Augustus only pardoned Cicero after the man was already dead, having his head and hands lopped off on Marc Antony's order, so outside of his greatness getting published, it still doesn't change the fact that Cicero went out in a way he never should've.

Of course not, he did what he had to do to appease Marc Antony because he needed the guy's support going forward.

There was nothing personal in it, he was just being a politician and thinking in the long-term.

Oh, I'm aware, it doesn't mean I have to like it, though, since it deprived us of more great works he could've written, and all to gain the support of a twat who went on to become his enemy not long after, and get killed anyway. Honestly, it wouldn't have been hard to fake Cicero's death in order to gain Antony's temporary alliance. The guy wasn't all that smart, so I don't see how Octavian, if he really wanted to, couldn't have played both sides to his advantage.

 

[Adamant soul]

Augustus only pardoned Cicero after the man was already dead, having his head and hands lopped off on Marc Antony's order, so outside of his greatness getting published, it still doesn't change the fact that Cicero went out in a way he never should've.

At least he met his death like an utter Badass, that's something at least.

Oh, I'm aware, it doesn't mean I have to like it, though, since it deprived us of more great works he could've written, and all to gain the support of a twat who went on to become his enemy not long after, and get killed anyway.

I mean basically the same thing happened with Caeser and Pompey in the first triumvirate.

Civil War between Octavian/Augustus and Antony was pretty much inevitable from the moment Caeser picked the former to be his heir. Octavian wasn't ready for it yet though so he had to buy time.

Honestly, it wouldn't have been hard to fake Cicero's death in order to gain Antony's temporary alliance. The guy wasn't all that smart, so I don't see how Octavian, if he really wanted to, couldn't have played both sides to his advantage.

Antony knows what Cisero looks like though, it's not like you could just kill a random person and dress them to look like Cisero. He most certainly would have wanted to confirm the body. He wasn't the brightest tool in the shed but he wasn't THAT dumb either.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

At least he met his death like an utter Badass, that's something at least.

I mean basically the same thing happened with Caeser and Pompey in the first triumvirate.

Civil War between Octavian/Augustus and Antony was pretty much inevitable from the moment Caeser picked the former to be his heir. Octavian wasn't ready for it yet though so he had to buy time.

Antony knows what Cisero looks like though, it's not like you could just kill a random person and dress them to look like Cisero. He most certainly would have wanted to confirm the body. He wasn't the brightest tool in the shed but he wasn't THAT dumb either.

Him going out like a badass is, at best, a consolation prize compared to what could've been.

The difference between Antony and Pompey, is that Pompey was far more useful and while he had his moments of idiocy, was much more competent than Antony was.

Actually, with Antony, that's not entirely true. All you'd need, is to get the guards to tell a small fib. Like say, they let Cicero get on the boat to get away, or destroy it while telling him to keep away and keep his head down. From there, make sure there's a body of a man who could match Cicero's height and whatever, and have him be the one who dies. If Antony asks, bring him the decomposed remains, which can no longer be recognized.

We can say that Antony wouldn't be that dumb, but honestly, in Antony's mind, Cicero was a man who would never keep his mouth shut and always speak his mind about whatever was going on in Rome. If after Cicero's 'death', Cicero didn't make a peep and wasn't spotted for the remaining time it took for Antony and Octavian to become enemies and for the latter to have the former killed, I honestly believe Antony would've been none the wiser, or at the very least, wouldn't know that Cicero wasn't dead, as all signs point him towards him, in fact, being dead, even though he wouldn't be. Cicero could've made it out of that alive.

 

[Maddie]

The problem still comes where Cicero might legitimately try to assassinate or oust Augustus once it becomes clear he is consolidating power into a principate

 

[Derpmaster9000]

The problem still comes where Cicero might legitimately try to assassinate or oust Augustus once it becomes clear he is consolidating power into a principate

He might've, I'll give you that. Cicero was more for a proper, restored republic than anything else. He definitely would've clashed with Octavian on that.