• We are currently rolling out incremental alterations to the forum. Don't freak! You aren't going crazy.

Mad God Genis-Vell vs ToAru

Mr.OMG

Paramount
How does that do so in terms of VS. debates rather than throw the entire series out by having their "World" be bigger than their "Universe"?
Again, it raises more questions, not solve them.
Well, it was understood that the physical universe is the very first rung in the hierarchy of the worlds of the Sephiroth Tree. High-level characters such as Aleister Crowley, Coronzon, Aiwass, designate the universe as the "Surface of the Four Worlds" Olam Asia, and above that are already phase beings like angels, well this is not the end, as there is an inverted tree, Qliphoth, but instead of angels, demons.
"Tonight, we shall destroy one of the impossibilities facing the world! Summon the divine name of Kamisato Kakeru with physical form and fix him to Olam Asiyah, the surface of the Four Worlds!!!!!!"
"It's no use, Westcott," said Mathers as if he could not hold back any longer. "Magicians are not the type of person who will be accepted by the masses. And yet we continue to leave our mark on history. This is a path we all travel down, is it not? Westcott, your behavior actually proves that that young Aleister Crowley here is walking down the Golden path just like we once did."

"Are you suggesting someone who showed no sign of understanding the arrangement of our GD tarot can skip straight past visions and accomplish a summoning using a Telesma-level ceremony? Mathers, if we want to avoid losing this promising young man, we should put a stop to this ceremony right this instant. Or barring that, we should at least prepare an exorcising sword in preparation for when he inevitably loses control of the dark forces."

"Oh, don't be so sure. If he was someone of such common talents, do you think an eccentric on my level would fall for him and work to win him over to my side?"

The conversation came to a stop.

That was due to the explosion-like roar that came from the floor.

It was invisible, but something like a powerful mass of wind raged around them.

Westcott was of course the one whose eyes widened.

"You fool!! I told you he would lose control of the dark forces!"

Westcott quickly pulled away the tablecloth that bore the magic circle drawn in pigeon's blood, but the same pattern had been scorched onto the ceremonial ground's floor. It was inorganic, but it had such persistence. It was like something invisible had stuck its hand through the gap of a partially opened door and was trying to force it the rest of the way open.

"Help me with this, Mathers. We need to buy enough time to contact Blythe Road and have them bring over the treasure!!"

"No, not yet!! Ha ha!! This is where things get interesting!!"

Mathers spread his arms wide as if to welcome it.

Then something changed.

The wind did not calm down, but it gained clear directionality. It wrapped around in a fierce whirlwind as if to contain itself within the magic circle scorched onto the floor. Thanks to that, it maintained the intensity of its power, but it was compact and stable. A formless being was held within the circle and trapped like a fairy tale demon. The stage was set and it would have to answer any of the magic user's commands.

It was like a gas light that could only burn within its glass container and would be snuffed out at the turn of the knob.

"What…? What happened!? He had clearly lost control!!"

"You're looking at this in the old way, Westcott. You seem to view the world as 10 spheres plus the invisible Da'at connected by 22 lines, but that Sephiroth is but one side of the world. Aleister Crowley here has recalculated the world using the completely opposite tree."

"The Qliphoth…? You mean the upside-down tree with a demon's name engraved in each imaginary Sephirah!?"

"With enough knowledge and consideration, negative power can be changed into words with which to describe the world. What you saw as a failure was the starting point of success for this youngster. You can search for the stairway up to heaven if you like, but you can also learn the formula by investigating the hole down to hell. Just as reading Dante's Divine Comedy as a bedtime story will make the children tremble in fear. You just have to put in the effort to not turn out the same yourself."
"But this…this is too risky. I get that the reverse of the reverse is the front, but rushing into practical usage without understanding the truth of the words will only lead to summoning more and more dark forces until you have destroyed yourself. You say you want to create a magic work kit that guides you to the miracle you want by lining up the symbols without any technical knowledge, to safely and surely raise up the newcomers with something akin to a detailed board game, and to complete a collective device that will answer questions from master and apprentice alike, but this goes against that entire philosophy! Just as the bible uses complex expressions to obscure the true meaning within, including the evil tree in our Golden cabal will only complicate our essence! If you want secret rituals full of the evil toxins of original grimoires that only a chosen few can understand and bare their fangs against any who make a mistake, then go join the Rosicrucians. I thought you said this isn't what we want!"

"Don't be so sure. It's all about reversing how you think. Just like how -1 times -1 is +1. Understand that and you won't be so confused. Whether you start from the positive or the negative, you can turn it in the positive direction in the end."

"I already said that mental exercise isn't suited for beginners! This is the capital of the proud British Empire, but the people of London still count coins with their fingers to calculate change. The swords and discs appearing and disappearing in that box is enough to confuse them. Listen, this is the state of things in London, the most advanced city in the world. Everyone begins as an amateur. You can't assume the masses can do the same things we can!!"
"What!? Have I not escaped that yet!? Huh? Wait, which one is the real world!?"

"That is an extremely philosophical question, but there is no real reason to distinguish between the two. Even without the example of the Four Worlds indicated by seven candles, the world always has many overlapping layers."

"? ???"

"Although I suppose someone with a soul as low-level as yours would indeed be trapped by the visions of the physical world. Those chains are the mountain's devilishness that reaches for human karma and they are the power that binds human thoughts and leads them to ascend the mountain, but they must have also provided a reassuring push on the back."
 
Well, it was understood that the physical universe is the very first rung in the hierarchy of the worlds of the Sephiroth Tree. High-level characters such as Aleister Crowley, Coronzon, Aiwass, designate the universe as the "Surface of the Four Worlds" Olam Asia, and above that are already phase beings like angels, well this is not the end, as there is an inverted tree, Qliphoth, but instead of angels, demons.

That's not really answering my question though?

Alright let me explain this better: How do you qualify where To Aru's "World" begin and their "Universe" End? How can we use any of this to try and believe this makes them Universal+ or Multiversal rather than them just having a far smaller Universe and thus it wouldn't count?

Can they have those mechanics to make their Universe bigger like Comics or Dark Tower for example? Sure but then we get to the real issue here:
Because their "World" is bigger than their "Universe" despite how absurd that sounds on it's face even with it's mechanics known, how precisely does that make that somehow translate into VS. Debates without anyone just throwing it out as basically complete nonsense? For example, we don't pretend Aliciazation of SAO is somehow another World or Universe despite how ridiculous those Fluclight AI and their environment is and thus, we don't try and pretend that those who made are some high level super beings.

We don't try and pretend due to how the Human Order/Age of the Gods works in the Nasuverse, that they are basically Multiversal or some shit like that themselves either despite the fact that it existing basically warps Reality to how Humans see it or how Aliens basically bring in their own Universal Rules and Mechanics whenever they show up somewhere else.

So I ask again and completely straight with no strings attached: How does ANY of this fit into a VS. Debate without us basically just laughing To Aru out of the room everytime it's brought up?
 
Like let me be even more frank:
The Star Ocean series comes off far more credible in VS. Debates than this and that series gave us Star Ocean 3 which basically pushed their Universe to absurd lengths on every category.
I trust that series far more than To Aru right now when it comes to that.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
That's not really answering my question though?

Alright let me explain this better: How do you qualify where To Aru's "World" begin and their "Universe" End? How can we use any of this to try and believe this makes them Universal+ or Multiversal rather than them just having a far smaller Universe and thus it wouldn't count?
The Universe is just a physical universe, and the World is a global structure in which there are countless Phases, the Hierarchy of Worlds of the Sephiroth Tree and Qliphoth, where the physical universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, which calls the "Surface of the Four Worlds". Well, as for the Vs debate, the Phases are on a higher step than the Physical Universe(OT 4), because of which the Phased Being cannot just decrease his rank and become equal to a human, and if the Phased Being does get drafted into the Physical Universe, It will either distort all of reality or simply destroy it, Marian, when she summoned the Phase Beings, had to create a separate space and separate it from the universe, otherwise the Phase Beings would destroy the entire universe by the mere fact of existence, as Othinus herself says. The idea is thus Phase>Universe, that is, the destruction of one Phase>the destruction of the Universe.
 
The Universe is just a physical universe, and the World is a global structure in which there are countless Phases, the Hierarchy of Worlds of the Sephiroth Tree and Qliphoth, where the physical universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, which calls the "Surface of the Four Worlds". Well, as for the Vs debate, the Phases are on a higher step than the Physical Universe(OT 4), because of which the Phased Being cannot just decrease his rank and become equal to a human, and if the Phased Being does get drafted into the Physical Universe, It will either distort all of reality or simply destroy it, Marian, when she summoned the Phase Beings, had to create a separate space and separate it from the universe, otherwise the Phase Beings would destroy the entire universe by the mere fact of existence, as Othinus herself says. The idea is thus Phase>Universe, that is, the destruction of one Phase>the destruction of the Universe.

That... *sigh* that doesn't actually explain my problem. Yes, you can have a physical Universe and other things outside of that which counts as the same components of the Universe(see Marvel and DC). Here's where my problem is:

How does this translate into somehow To Aru's "World" is bigger than it's "Universe"? If anything, it explains that it's closer to Marvel or DC than it somehow being the other way around. It also fits the ridiculous problem with the True Magic Gods and people here completely make fun of without remorse.
And finally, people being able to make spaces outside of the Universe doesn't expand the Universe or anything like that, it just means you are able to make dimensions outside of the Universe.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
That... *sigh* that doesn't actually explain my problem. Yes, you can have a physical Universe and other things outside of that which counts as the same components of the Universe(see Marvel and DC). Here's where my problem is:

How does this translate into somehow To Aru's "World" is bigger than it's "Universe"? If anything, it explains that it's closer to Marvel or DC than it somehow being the other way around. It also fits the ridiculous problem with the True Magic Gods and people here completely make fun of without remorse.
And finally, people being able to make spaces outside of the Universe doesn't expand the Universe or anything like that, it just means you are able to make dimensions outside of the Universe.
That the Physical Universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, and higher up the ladder are the Phases, at least up to 8=3, that is to Sephira Binah, as according to Dion Fortune the Magical Gods are equivalent to the beings that dwell in Sephira Binah.
 

Rev97

Illustrious
OBD has other fictions at multiversal for having multiple dimensions beyond the universe. I don’t see the problem here once the scale of the dimensions and feats are proven

People bring up Bleach in this thread, thing is nothing from Bleach is shown to affect any more than a planet, Index is full of characters that destroy galaxies and the universe, several that even destroy the entire universe by accident unless they nerf themselves
 

Cryso Agori

V.I.P. Member
How does that do so in terms of VS. debates rather than throw the entire series out by having their "World" be bigger than their "Universe"?
Again, it raises more questions, not solve them.
Did you not read what the translator said? Or the quotes?
The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

Both this quote and the translator stated that phases don’t exist in the universe but outside of it. Toaru’s world in this context is the ‘balloon’ that surrounds the universe and its phases.

Also this means that Othinus and the TMG’s may be universal+ because she destroyed the universe and something outside of it. To possibly multiversal because of her feat with Gungnir.
 
I'm going to be frank and say this pointblank:

I can see why Masterblack wants this series banned from his own perspective. We have had no one here even be remotely straight in the slightest of where To Aru stands at and we have consistently had people waffle and then suddenly present "NEW INFORMATION" that suddenly places it somewhere else entirely different all in this one topic.

You guys aren't actually expanding the series as you are thinking you are, you are emphatically making even harder to take it seriously than ever before.
 

Rev97

Illustrious
Yeah yeah, we heard it all before from you a million times now, Xhom. You love to repeat yourself and no one cares.

Funny how this is the only forum that has this issue with the series. I couldn’t have made it simpler with the thread I made.
 
Last edited:
Yeah yeah, we heard it all before from you a million times now, Xhom. No one cares.

Funny how this is the only forum that has this issue with the series. I couldn’t have made it simpler with the thread I made.

I like how you continue to believe that you are God's Gift to this forum when no one fucking cares about your fake ass.
Why don't you leave since no, you didn't contribute shit and continue to make it a joke by you existing. Goldenboy actually made a respect topic, you didn't. OMG atleast chips in, you didn't do shit.

You are only doing this now because Masterblack caught you snooping around this forum, as did I and others but I didn't give enough of a fuck of your existence to say anything to you. So how about you do us this actual favor this time and

:dyoutlov Get the hell out of here.
 

Rev97

Illustrious
I like how you continue to believe that you are God's Gift to this forum when no one fucking cares about your fake ass.
Why don't you leave since no, you didn't contribute shit and continue to make it a joke by you existing. Goldenboy actually made a respect topic, you didn't. OMG atleast chips in, you didn't do shit.

You are only doing this now because Masterblack caught you snooping around this forum, as did I and others but I didn't give enough of a fuck of your existence to say anything to you. So how about you do us this actual favor this time and

:dyoutlov Get the hell out of here.
I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,

I’m not a gift or anything, it’s only common sense. Go ahead and keep pushing for an outright ban on a popular series. It doesn’t mean anything to me and will only hurt this forum by alienating more potential users from signing up.
 

Mr.OMG

Paramount
I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,

I’m not a gift or anything, it’s only common sense. Go ahead and keep pushing for an outright ban on a popular series. It’s only going to hurt this forum by alienating more potential users from signing up.
Well let's be honest, nobody cares about ToAru except in Asia, only in Asia ToAru is very popular, if they ban ToAru, nothing will happen.
 
I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,

Dude, we remember the topic, it wasn't a respect thread as I told you to make one. It was a topic on Othinus and the True Magic Gods and there was no context whatsoever in it in the slightest outside of, again, Mr. OMG chipping in with the actual context.

I’m not a gift or anything, it’s only common sense. Go ahead and keep pushing for an outright ban on a popular series.

*Thinking To Aru is a popular series even now* :hestonpls Dude, To Aru was ONCE decently known here in hardcore circles and that fucking died when they barely released shit of the series until later on. And no, it appearing in VS. topics here and there doesn't make it popular.

Hell, Fate is more well known and popular here than To Aru and most of it's well known properties aren't even officially translated here.

It’s only going to hurt this forum by alienating more potential users from signing up.

Bro, not even Spacebattles consistently use To Aru in VS. topics. Not even ComicVine or even VSB uses To Aru consistently in VS. topics. Again, I see Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, even Fate consistently used more in every other VS. Debating forum, even fucking REDDIT than To Aru.
 

Rev97

Illustrious
Because I was asked to make a Respect Thread proving Magic Gods were casual universe destroyers and nothing more. I provided context and quotes that couldn’t be simpler to read so your gonna have to clarify what I left off instead of just talking out of your ass.

3 animes released in the past few years including a third season of both Index and Railgun in an industry where a series rarely gets more than one season, light novels and side story still going strong, with the light novels being one of the longest running (just celebrated its 18th anniversary this April 10th) and best selling LN series ever. Check out these numbers from 2 years ago.
nivhlvvlriv41.png


I know your obsessed with making yet another dick measuring contest comparing Index to Fate but let’s not derail the thread that was going fine until now.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top