Kaido not using Future Sight with Yamato is the same as Big Mom not using CoC Coating against Kid and Law
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One Piece Tier/Feat/Canon/Toei Discussion Thread Part 3: Road to star level
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BM hasn't got feats even close to Kaido, sure they're on the same tier but she's a complete joke in comparison to what Kaido has pulled off.
I'm assuming it's because Oda wants to save her for Wano that's why she's been completely shafted. She beat Kidd and Law's ass and even walked away when she could have ended them but pretending that fight isn't full of PIS is nonsense. So it's not hard to see Cross Horizons point of view but I still put them above Yamato barely.
I'm assuming it's because Oda wants to save her for Wano that's why she's been completely shafted. She beat Kidd and Law's ass and even walked away when she could have ended them but pretending that fight isn't full of PIS is nonsense. So it's not hard to see Cross Horizons point of view but I still put them above Yamato barely.
It's not the same. Cause we have a statement from Mom herself that she was using her strongest form. While Kaidou chose to never use his drunken form against Yamato.
Kaidou was just more out of Yamatos league compared to Mom out of the boys.
They are not the same class.
And Mom is not a joke compared to Kaidou. Kaidou is impressive but you are comparing quality to quality here.
Kaidou was just more out of Yamatos league compared to Mom out of the boys.
They are not the same class.
And Mom is not a joke compared to Kaidou. Kaidou is impressive but you are comparing quality to quality here.
The PIS works both ways, they both had Big Mom spread out on the floor with broken bones yet decided to waste that opportunity having a petty argument about who had the flashier techniques, allowing her to get back up and heal herself. They also walked into the fight already injured and fatigued and spent about a good third of the battle with Hawkins sabotaging Kid with his ability.
Big Mom receiving heavy damage and not being able to put down Kid and Law with her attacks should speak not for how weak Big Mom is, but for how powerful Kid and Law are. Big Mom is well established to be of a similar caliber to Kaido.
Sure, but those moments aren't even close to comparison, talking has always been a free action in manga and saying that PIS moment is the same is nothing but a way of inflating Kidd and Law. They don't have the ability to put her down, but when she was beating them up she had the ability to permanantly put them down but instead chose to walk away.
I've already stated that I think they're above Yamato from what they've been showing but put Law vs BM or Kidd 1v1 and non of their attacks are going the same way they did in that fight. And that's clearly shown in the manga how they kept distracting her everytime she focused on one of them and in how they won, added to that they need plot bombs on top of that. 90% of the time they're losing this battle even 2v1.
Also yes BM is a joke, she's been a joke this whole arc and that's Oda's fault, you don't have Franky running a bike on her face and Robin rolling her away and say she isn't a joke.
Has Big Mom used CoC Coating on Kid and Law
That's why the manga tells us something different, the odds of what's happening in the raid is 1% or something, that's what's canon.
They're pulling of a miracle against BM, "They're able to land blows against BM without distraction" Show me one panel of Law or kidd landing anything meaningful on her without distraction, I'll give a hint, there isn't one and that's on purpose, the only time one of them manages to get her head on is kidd and that's during the time she was recovering from law's sneak attack and his assign didn't do anything, law has snuck up on her every time he's done an attack on her during that 2v1, every single time.
Taking turns on BM is their biggest advantage in that fight and they still failed without plotbombs. Anything refuting this is actual headcanon. Go reread the chapters.
They're pulling of a miracle against BM, "They're able to land blows against BM without distraction" Show me one panel of Law or kidd landing anything meaningful on her without distraction, I'll give a hint, there isn't one and that's on purpose, the only time one of them manages to get her head on is kidd and that's during the time she was recovering from law's sneak attack and his assign didn't do anything, law has snuck up on her every time he's done an attack on her during that 2v1, every single time.
Taking turns on BM is their biggest advantage in that fight and they still failed without plotbombs. Anything refuting this is actual headcanon. Go reread the chapters.
Big Mom was shown slowly rising up to her feet in the midst of their argument so it wasn't really a free action, and the fact that she needed to bust out healing techniques to continue the match tells us that they are packing sufficient firepower against her.
What makes you so certain that Big Mom could have put them down for good if she didn't turn around? We already saw her get free shots in on Kid when he was defenseless from Hawkins and that didn't keep him down. The moment she turned around to head off both of them were already back on their feet with Law's sword going through her face, they clearly had more left in the tank. Afterwards they both went on to spam several more stamina draining moves, Kid went on to take an attack from her ultimate homie Misery, Law ate over dozen hardened punches, and they were both still prepared to throw down with Kaido afterwards. That doesn't sound like two people that she could have easily finished off.
A joke doesn't get hit by this and bounce back up with a smile the next page.
Kid landing Punk Corna Dio on Bigger Mom who is on her feet and fully focused towards him
Kid blitzing Bigger Mom mid-swing with assign
Law landing counter-shock on Big Mom who was entirely unoccupied at the time
Law dodging and landing Gamma Knife on a Kaido who was focused on and attacking him (Not BM, but just as relevant)
Talking has **Always** been a free action, literally everyone in every manga and every series talks in the middle of their fights to give exposition and character moments. Saying that's PIS is a huge stretch in comparison to law and kidds crew begging BM to stop saying they'll die in whien she was beating them. But you're free to believe whatever you want.
She's a joke based on portrayal seeing what her peer is capable of, this is just a relative comparison between the two. This is an opinion that a lot of people share, but that's all it is, an opinion, no need to harp on it.
Good job on ignoring the other half of my sentence
That's not a blitz, please learn what blitz means. She saw it but his assign didn't accomplish anything which I also posted.
She let Law do that, that literally doesn't prove anything. It's like when Kaido let luffy hit him at the beginning of wano. I was also specifically talking about the 2v1.
Cool, that doesn't change anything I said.
Nothing you've posted is refuting anything I'm saying. I never said Kidd or Law can't damage BM, I said their whole fight with BM was based on taking turns and their co-op which is what is highlighted here and their win is a fluke, it's something they can't replicate via normal means. So saying the 2v1 isn't a big deal is just cope.
The crew also said that Kid and Law needed to run away from her soul pocus, but they ended up being unphased by it.
I'm less concerned about what the crowd of fodder spectators say and more concerned about what the actual feats show, which is that Kid and Law were already back on her feet the moment she turned around, continued taking powerful attacks, spamming stamina draining moves, and were still ready to keep fighting when Kaido came down from the rooftop.
Characters turning around mid-fight because they mistakenly believed themselves to have won is a thing that happens quite a lot in this series. If that's some unforgivable PIS that invalidates the fight then you're going to need to share the same energy for fights like Zoro vs Mr. 1, Luffy vs Crocodile, Luffy vs Lucci, Luffy vs Kaido, Kalifa vs Nami, Usopp vs Chew, Queen vs Sanji, Oars vs Strawhats, etc. where the same thing happened. You can find PIS in most fights if you deliberately seek it out, such as King kicking Zoro back onto the island after he dove off to reclaim his sword, Cracker diving headfirst into Tankman when he could have remained on the defensive with his biscuits, Buggy stopping to gloat about his power when he could have kept stabbing Zoro instead, Akainu putting magma into Whitebeard's chest following his heart attack when he could have gone for the head, etc.
You can entertain your hypothetical where Big Mom could have maybe won if she did this or that, but I'm more concerned with the reality where she unloaded on them with everything in her retinue and it wasn't enough to stop them from trucking through and packing her up. Also that her turning around was somehow a bigger advantage than Hawkins chapters long string of interference where he saw Kid getting stabbed through the chest by Killer and left open and defenseless to Big Mom's attacks, or the Thunder Bagua that Law ate prior to entering the fight.
Your evidence of her being a joke was that Franky rode a motorcycle on her face. I could just as easily go dig up a panel of Kaido getting stabbed through the hand by Kiku. Big Mom's portrayal is someone who can stalemate Kaido for three days, quickly rebound from attacks capable of obliterating Onigashima with a smile, and match his output for Ocean's Sovereignty.
I believe Kaido is the stronger of the two, but portrayal has them close.
Your claim was that Kid and Law couldn't land anything without a distraction, and I just gave you four examples of them landing attacks on Yonko without a distraction.
We're talking about speed and the ability to get in on a Yonko right? The damage of Kid's assign wasn't the important part (it wasn't even a technique designed to deal damage), the important part was that she attempted to strike Kid with her blade and mid-swing he managed to zip past tagging her and the wall behind her before she could even finish her stroke.
Also going to need to see some evidence for "she let Law do that" , that's a weak rebuttal and you know it.
Sure characters say a lot of things that don't happen, it's to give tension to the situation, noone here is arguing that they were gonna lose, but rather that they should have if it wasn't for a CIS moment, in which BM leaves. For example noone thinks luffy/zoro/sanji will lose their main fights, but certain things will be said at the time to make the situation more dire even if they eventually prevail.The characters are there to give exposition, that's what fodders are for, just because you want to ignore it, doesn't make it less true. Your argument literally means nothing, bringing these examples and then comparing it to the law and kidd argument is just bad because those things aren't even remotely close, but like I said before you're free to think whatever you want.
I just gave a small sample of an example, there's tons more for BM like being thrown off a ship, that's how she was treated this arc, if you don't think so then nothing will convince you, not that I was trying to in the first place, merely stating she's a Yonkou, and reletively speaking her portrayal is hot garbage. She comes off as super incompetent, powerful but incompetent.
You didn't give me any examples of that happening, not that it was my argument in the first place. I wanted to see a panel of them doing so in that fight, which you didn't provide. Context is everything, just because you pull out a sentence I type and apply it over everything doesn't mean that's what I said.
To make myself more clearer. I do think Law and Kidd can land an attack on her but here's the caveat, it wont do anything 1v1. Kidd does assgin and then he's a sitting duck until Law does his attack.
My whole argument is that 1v1 they're not doing close to even half of what they did to BM 2v1. That's my whole argument. 2v1 was a huge advantage for them in that fight and law hasn't shown once to land his k room on her head on or any attack for that matter in that fight. Can he? Maybe, will it do anything in the long run? No. Because a 1v1 is a completely different situation.
My boy Luffy is really forcing Momo to either go big or go home 
madlad
madlad
How is Kidd a sitting duck. On Panel, the GP even posted we know that's not true.
He literally assigned Mom and then Black Bulled her on panel and tagged Mom in the middle.
First you said they could never tag her. Which he proved. Now you're saying the attacks would do nothing.
Stop stone walking. You already admitted Yamato is not on their level. And he's proven you wrong every turn. Either bring up a feat Yamato has that's better than Law or Kidd or let's end it.
He literally assigned Mom and then Black Bulled her on panel and tagged Mom in the middle.
First you said they could never tag her. Which he proved. Now you're saying the attacks would do nothing.
Stop stone walking. You already admitted Yamato is not on their level. And he's proven you wrong every turn. Either bring up a feat Yamato has that's better than Law or Kidd or let's end it.
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