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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

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MR negates a spells existence via vague and unknown means. This makes it very subject to NLF rules, so anything outside of what it's interacted with tends to get hit by a bat.

No? We are told precisely how Magic Resistance works and even see how it operates in many different fashions:

Magic Resistance (対魔力, Tai-Maryoku?, localized as "Anti-Magic"EX) grants protection against magical effects. Differing from the Resistance effect that merely rejects Magical Energy, this ability cancels the spells altogether.
Here, Artoria's armor is created from her own magical energy. Here, Artoria's armor constructed from her own magical energy is called an "Impregnable defense". Here, a discussion about Bellerophon, Artoria notes her magic resistance/armor nullifies all but Sorcery or Fantastic Races with Divinity (after all, Divine Mysteries are nullified by stronger ones).
Here, Medea casts enforced transference. Here, Artoria’s powerful magic resistance protected herself from Medea’s enforced transference.
Here, Medea casts a 5 verse spell of light bullets faster than Artoria can cover 10 meters. Here, Artoria's magic resistance is so high she can basically just let Medea's light bullets hit her and they're nullified with a glare.
Here, there is only 10 meters between Medea and Artoria at the start of the battle. Here, Artoria starts sprinting at Medea, Medea reacts and casts a magic that increases the air density around Artoria enough to halt her forward momentum. Here, Medea used Great Magic with only one word, such a feat isn't possible for magus like Tohsaka without her gems. Here, Artoria's magic resistance dispels Medea's magic.
Here, EMIYA kicks Shirou away in time for Medea to catch him in a time stop spell. Here, EMIYA breaks free from Medea's time stop spell with his powers (presumably, he flexed his magical energy as his magic resistance is only D ranked).

Magic Resistance all but breaks down the spell and the Magical Energy itself that makes the spell on sheer contact, only passing through if the person allows it and honestly, Magic Resistance itself isn't needed as shown with stuff like just having enough Magical Energy is enough to break through Curses and stuff like Medusa's Cybele makes it harder to just say that MR is "ill defined".

People agreed with this take and this is the only part I will talk about as everything else is just a mess of contradictions and stupidity that relies on this and nothing of how Ainz or anyone in Nazarick can hurt Alcides.
 
When Caim speedruns through Overlord
ok0Ft9E.mp4
 
TBF the issue isn't that timestop freezes ainz, He's totally immune to time stop. It's that nothing frozen in time stop can be affected by things unaffected by it during the timestop. So nuclear blasting someone during a timestop would simply have the world/entities targeted by it be unaffected (Which honestly isn't really an odd take, realistically if you've stopped time how could you affect the world if it's all frozen? Even if you can move about/do things the world your trying to interact with is frozen in time)

That just tells me how massively limiting Ainz's Time Stop is and how it's basically just a mess for VS. debates, all things considered(just like with everything in Overlord).

Its implied if two entities resisted time stop they'd be able to fight/affect each other. It's just if you both resist it's entirely pointless waste of magic to cast it so ainz rarely bothers testing it against peer opponents...Cause if you ainz peer in universe you have some class, ring or magical effect to negate because...why would you ever fight without it? Ainz always has one of his ten rings dedicated to anti time bullshit.

And that falls under the same issue: How far does that "Anti-Time Ring" go? Because if it's the same issue as the "Fire immunity", it ain't going anywhere notable at all when it comes to the issue of it's true immunity, which further tanks any effectiveness Time Stop should have on a Servant against Ainz, especially if Ainz's can just be powered through because "Ha HA, I'm physically/magically stronger/on par with you!"

Saying that going off ainz it's not something you gain automatically through leveling, when facing the dragon lords in the side story he spent a bit of time scratching his head wondering where the dragon lords resistance to it came from, despite them all being near level 100. (Similarly we see ainz turn a level eighty tree monster, that ainz compared to a raid boss into a christmas tree using timestop)

I mean that still tells me absolutely nothing considering at the end of the day it's just a spell that can be dealt with through many means and while Time Stop may not be something anyone can do, it's equally not impossible but Divine Spirits or True Magic(To be fair, Zelretch's can do way more than that and is legit Time Travel as well due to how his Timeline Hopping works) to do(It's just difficult to do adequately, let alone in a fight as long as it's not the Emiya Magical Crest).
 

Randomdude

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That just tells me how massively limiting Ainz's Time Stop is and how it's basically just a mess for VS. debates, all things considered(just like with everything in Overlord).



And that falls under the same issue: How far does that "Anti-Time Ring" go? Because if it's the same issue as the "Fire immunity", it ain't going anywhere notable at all when it comes to the issue of it's true immunity, which further tanks any effectiveness Time Stop should have on a Servant against Ainz, especially if Ainz's can just be powered through because "Ha HA, I'm physically/magically stronger/on par with you!"



I mean that still tells me absolutely nothing considering at the end of the day it's just a spell that can be dealt with through many means and while Time Stop may not be something anyone can do, it's equally not impossible but Divine Spirits or True Magic(To be fair, Zelretch's can do way more than that and is legit Time Travel as well due to how his Timeline Hopping works) to do(It's just difficult to do adequately, let alone in a fight as long as it's not the Emiya Magical Crest).
I know nothing about fate at all, was just sharing that the issue of attacking in time stop has nothing to do with ainz be affected by it and everything to do with the mechanics of how timestop works in universe. (Again as far as timestop go I wouldn't really consider this an unreasonable limitation, if the world is frozen in time being unable to affect/harm it sounds logical to an extent)

The anti time rings limits are never stated, it negates time stop, and according to ainz it would make him immune to any time based fuckery in yggdrassil. It's actually a cash shop item, ie a pay to win item so atleast within there verse I imagine the only thing that would bypass it would ultimate skills ala tgoalid or world items.
 
I know nothing about fate at all, was just sharing that the issue of attacking in time stop has nothing to do with ainz be affected by it and everything to do with the mechanics of how timestop works in universe. (Again as far as timestop go I wouldn't really consider this an unreasonable limitation, if the world is frozen in time being unable to affect/harm it sounds logical to an extent)

We have never seen Ainz's Time Stop go that far at all and it just seemingly only affects the current area and that's it.

The anti time rings limits are never stated, it negates time stop, and according to ainz it would make him immune to any time based fuckery in yggdrassil. It's actually a cash shop item, ie a pay to win item so atleast within there verse I imagine the only thing that would bypass it would ultimate skills ala tgoalid or world items.

So all that tells me is that it only works for anything within Yggdrasil/The New World and no one else...
 

Randomdude

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We have never seen Ainz's Time Stop go that far at all and it just seemingly only affects the current area and that's it.



So all that tells me is that it only works for anything within Yggdrasil/The New World and no one else...
When I said world I was reffering to whatever nebulous area ainz is affecting, the exact range of which is never stated.

EH that way lies arguments about literally any fictional franchise interacting with another not working. Better to say it works on everything we've seen in new world/yggdrassil

Saying that what other time magic even exist in overlord is unclear, we have time stop, targeted time stop, time slow, ice based timestop, time accelerator, time reversal as a healing technique and a mentioned class of overlord that ainz can summon known as the overlord chronomancer which is entirely dedicated to time based abilities in much the way ainz is dedicated to necromancy/death magic. So assumedly theres a lot that can be done with time magic we'll never see.


Overlord has a lot of weird mentioned bullshit the author never expands upon, like the fact a dedicated illusionist basically has access to wish upon a star, by making an illusion so powerful that it tricks the world itself into thinking it's real. Said skill could be used to even resurrect the dead according to ainz. An illusionist can essentially use wish to resurrect the dead just by being that good in overlords universe.
 
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Randomdude

Preeminent
Honestly if you guys want us to take you seriously why don't you just make a respect thread?

At least you can keep these circular arguments contained their till we come up with a consensus.
Im open to it if people want but at this point it feels like it's just going to be me posting half the books nobody else has bothered to read because they hated the anime so much. (Which tbf if you didn't like the anime I doubt you'd like the novels either)


Ring that renders ainz immune to temporaral attacks volume 2 page 217: The magic rings which Ainz wore should have protected him from temporal attacks and attacks designed to impede his freedom of movement

Illusions that trick the world from overlord volume 12 page 239:

“Ahh, yes. For example, there are spells like [Perfect Illusion] which can defy all five senses. And beyond that, there are those who have refined their illusions to the utmost limit, who can use a certain skill once every few days to deceive the world itself.”

An illusion that could deceive a world was beyond her capacity to imagine. “Ah, how exactly does that worldly illusion work?”

“From what I know, it’s a spell that lets you rewrite any aspect of the world, I think. Well, simply put, using an illusion like that could even bring the dead back to life?”

“Eh?! You’re talking about an illusion, right?”

“Oh yes. An illusion which tricks the world — the ultimate secret of illusions. By deceiving the world itself, an illusion can be made real.”




Overlord kronus master from overlord volume 10 page 223: In Yggdrasil, there were several types of monsters in the Overlord family: the Overlord Wiseman, which was skilled in magic, the Overlord Kronos Master, which could use time-related special abilities,

Ainz ability to summon overlords, volume 1 page 164: However, it was only a level thirty-five monster, and it was nothing in comparison to the monsters which required XP to create, like Overlord Wiseman

Shalltear reversing time on herself to recover her health, from volume 3 page 232: Shalltear inspected Ainz’s MP consumption with [Mana Essence], and then she fought to suppress the laughter rising in her heart. At the same time, she reversed time to recover her health.

Targeted time stop, from volume 14 page 285: Given that was the case, Ainz cast a spell on Riku.

“[Temporal Stasis].”

This was a ninth-tier single-target spell. Although the spell could prevent the opponent from moving, it also prevented them from taking any damage while the spell lasted. That was why it was usually used when there were multiple hostiles.

However, Ainz found that his spell was not just resisted, but nullified completely. It appeared that Riku had time-stop countermeasures. Of course, that was not too unusual given how strong he was

Ice based time stop overlord drama cd page 151:
How annoying. Be quiet. Skill activate: Frost of Judecca!

A ephemeral cracking and freezing sound is heard.

Oh ho. I thought it was a total small fry without a time counter-measure in place, but it seems to have removed Frost of Judecca with some kind of method. I have misjudged a bit.

Ainz baffled about the dragon lords resistance to time stop, overlord side story page 224

All of Suzuki Satoru’s time-stop resistance came from his gear. However, the Brightness Dragon Lord did not look like the sort who used equipment. Did that mean it had innate resistance to it?


If you also want to get into weird mechanics of overlord worn equipment is intrinsically harder to destroy in overlord.
From evileye side story page 224:
Equipped magic items added their abilities to their wearers and had the same resistances as them. For instance, consider the necklace Suzuki Satoru had on, and if it were on the ground. While they both had the same durability, the one on the ground would be more easily destroyed.
 
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tf is this thread at least one person has the brains to releases that avatar is faster then sound

They have the same issue with Naruto and even Fate to be honest, it's a well known bias of theirs disguised as "consistency" and "world settings".

Im open to it if people want but at this point it feels like it's just going to be me posting half the books nobody else has bothered to read because they hated the anime so much. (Which tbf if you didn't like the anime I doubt you'd like the novels either)


Ring that renders ainz immune to temporaral attacks volume 2 page 217: The magic rings which Ainz wore should have protected him from temporal attacks and attacks designed to impede his freedom of movement

Illusions that trick the world from overlord volume 12 page 239:

“Ahh, yes. For example, there are spells like [Perfect Illusion] which can defy all five senses. And beyond that, there are those who have refined their illusions to the utmost limit, who can use a certain skill once every few days to deceive the world itself.”

An illusion that could deceive a world was beyond her capacity to imagine. “Ah, how exactly does that worldly illusion work?”

“From what I know, it’s a spell that lets you rewrite any aspect of the world, I think. Well, simply put, using an illusion like that could even bring the dead back to life?”

“Eh?! You’re talking about an illusion, right?”

“Oh yes. An illusion which tricks the world — the ultimate secret of illusions. By deceiving the world itself, an illusion can be made real.”




Overlord kronus master from overlord volume 10 page 223: In Yggdrasil, there were several types of monsters in the Overlord family: the Overlord Wiseman, which was skilled in magic, the Overlord Kronos Master, which could use time-related special abilities,

Ainz ability to summon overlords, volume 1 page 164: However, it was only a level thirty-five monster, and it was nothing in comparison to the monsters which required XP to create, like Overlord Wiseman

Shalltear reversing time on herself to recover her health, from volume 3 page 232: Shalltear inspected Ainz’s MP consumption with [Mana Essence], and then she fought to suppress the laughter rising in her heart. At the same time, she reversed time to recover her health.

Targeted time stop, from volume 14 page 285: Given that was the case, Ainz cast a spell on Riku.

“[Temporal Stasis].”

This was a ninth-tier single-target spell. Although the spell could prevent the opponent from moving, it also prevented them from taking any damage while the spell lasted. That was why it was usually used when there were multiple hostiles.

However, Ainz found that his spell was not just resisted, but nullified completely. It appeared that Riku had time-stop countermeasures. Of course, that was not too unusual given how strong he was

Ice based time stop overlord drama cd page 151:
How annoying. Be quiet. Skill activate: Frost of Judecca!

A ephemeral cracking and freezing sound is heard.

Oh ho. I thought it was a total small fry without a time counter-measure in place, but it seems to have removed Frost of Judecca with some kind of method. I have misjudged a bit.

Ainz baffled about the dragon lords resistance to time stop, overlord side story page 224

All of Suzuki Satoru’s time-stop resistance came from his gear. However, the Brightness Dragon Lord did not look like the sort who used equipment. Did that mean it had innate resistance to it?


If you also want to get into weird mechanics of overlord worn equipment is intrinsically harder to destroy in overlord.
From evileye side story page 224:
Equipped magic items added their abilities to their wearers and had the same resistances as them. For instance, consider the necklace Suzuki Satoru had on, and if it were on the ground. While they both had the same durability, the one on the ground would be more easily destroyed.

People don't even like To Aru and we plan on giving it a chance, we don't like UQ Holder nor Negima and we give it a chance, why would Overlord be any different?
Hell, half of the people here hate Fate and they accepted where it is.
 

Paxton

One Sin and Hundreds of Good Deeds
V.I.P. Member

Just imagining the chain of continency spells is hurting my head. Acererak doesn't need any prep at all, but giving it to him is really mean. Honestly, it wouldn't take Acererak. A Bog standard Demilich just from the epic handbook is more than enough (although arguably, that IS supposed to be Acererak.)

Just his spell like abilities alone, he can cast Astral projection and Create Greater undead At Will and Greater Planar Ally 2/day. Even if he started with nothing but his raw statblock, he could have an army of undead and fiends if he wanted to in a matter of days. Even just limiting ourselves to the spells in the PHB, stuff like Wish, Gate, Time Stop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction and Prismatic Sphere are probably all beyond Frieren's ability to deal with.

And then there's the fact that not only do you have to destroy his body and his phlyactery but also his eight soul gems.

Mordenkainen's Disjunction is basically just a much stronger Antimagic Field, right? @Papa Nier
@Flowering Knight
 

Randomdude

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They have the same issue with Naruto and even Fate to be honest, it's a well known bias of theirs disguised as "consistency" and "world settings".



People don't even like To Aru and we plan on giving it a chance, we don't like UQ Holder nor Negima and we give it a chance, why would Overlord be any different?
Hell, half of the people here hate Fate and they accepted where it is.
Fair give me a few days and Ill try to write something up, the most difficult part is figuring out where to put them in terms of raw physicals/durability, because overlord has a lot of weird shit going on with it's health mechanics and dura (As I mentioned in my last post equipment literally gets stronger/harder to damage when people wear it, overlord has taken the memes about clothes not being destroyed and made it a canonical part of it's world building)

Strength wise ainz is meant to be comparable to a level thirty/fourty warrior but he pulls shit that seems well beyond a lot of those characters we see physically without using perfect warrior. And the only way I can think to reconcile it is the stat gain disparity between races.
 
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