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Shalltear Bloodfallen (Overlord) vs Neferpitou (HunterXHunter)

ChaosTheory123 said:
I called Overlord's feats gutter trash only once and you responded about the same way I was expecting on top of being 3 posts deeper into a conversation you already swore you wouldn't engage in
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I was simply pointing out how you ignored all of this
Marigold said:
I did that calc. If you think it's wrong, you can point out the part



A 50 megaton bomb would make a around 83km² fireball. Around the size of Manhattan
A 100 megaton bomb would instead be around 141 km².
This are the pictures of the Rose Bomb


Does that look like a blast that can incinerate an entire city? Does it look anywhere near that?
That calc is definitely wack




How is restricted Aoe not a good argument. I look at the amount of stone vaporized, I calculate the energy needed to vaporize that amount of stone, I translate that number to tons of tnt and get megatons. Please point out the issue I have



I can point how the same supersonic characters to Shalltear's vision were as slow as snails, or how one who's swings scale to supersonic speeds has his sword casually caught by Shalltear's hand moving from hip to neck before the sword could cross a couple of cm.
Or how a slower character is described as exactly as fast as a meteor
まさに流星のような速度だ。
"It's exactly the speed of a meteor."
If translate it part by part
まさに — Exactly
流星 — meteor
のような — like/such as/similar to
速度 — speed/velocity
だ — it's
Meteors travel at 7 to 45 miles per second (11 to 72 kilometers per second).
A lowball would be Mach 30. Mach 50, 60 or even 70 is still below midball.



Where's that said?



When something punches with hundreds of times more force than they weigh, it's not following physics. Apply that as a rule and you kill most debates
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Which was after I linked the calc to you
Marigold said:
Calc done here puts the lowball at 4.12 megatons.
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And your response was
Cryso Agori said:
I don't trust spacebattles calcs.
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So
ChaosTheory123 said:
You talked about calcs of yours that I didn't even see, acting like I was consciously ignoring them where as I was barely engaged with the discussion outside of shit vaguely related to me directly
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is a lie unless you simply didn't actually check my argument, which would be funny in itself


ChaosTheory123 said:
Like I told you, I know your position, it's ultimately hard science which would be great to adhere to

Problem is, as its easily reduced to, this hobby is not logical, it is not consistent. The round peg you are looking for doesn't exist, because fiction is full of compromised models that do not adhere to the real world cleanly. You do not have to compromise, but I am satisfied playing this game by putting the square peg into the round hole because engaging with the puzzle would not be meaningfully possible otherwise.

I'm satisfied with stripped down concerns like phase transition or how fast the mass is moving. I do not need to see the effects of the radiating heat outside the immediate area, I do not need to see how adversely the atmosphere should be impacted, I do not need to see the the intricate and layered dominoes of realistic cause and effect fall in place because there is nothing of that to observe in most any fiction we are discussing

Your approach isn't wrong, but its also not observed. So enjoy the accompanying migraine :maybe
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I agree not everything follows physics but if nothing did, even attempting to put numbers on such a feat would be useless. There has to be something to stand on.
High gigatons( three digits) would have vaporized far far more than what the feat shows.
 
Marigold said:
This is a weak spell that Shalltear would barely be injured by

That is a couple of megatons right there, and she can tank several dozens of far more powerful hits.
Terms of speed, she scales massively above supersonic bullet timers so much so they are slow as snails to her.
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Ah

So you're the exact kind of hypocrite I pegged you for :maybe

What's with the city still being there?

A couple megatons? Total fatalities would be on the order of a blast radius of 17.5 kilometers and would only need 6 megatons or so to accomplish the feat

So where is your assessment from? The crater and the matter ejected therein. Assuming vaporization from even less than I had, purely the absence of matter present on screen
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
You don’t just scale from isolated moments, you find the size of the whole
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Isolated moments? Taking the most consistent value is something I agree with- but in the two cases I mention, the scans you've used are not the most consistent. You've calculated the hole as around twenty meters and the staircase as around a hundred meters.

I would steal some arguments here and say your results are not the consistent portrayal in the manga by far. We can visibly see how Meruem compares to the curvature of it on the outside and it's nearly the same- his torso is roughly 10 degrees in both instances, meaning the size of the hole is consistent in the scene it's been portrayed in.

This is visibly not twenty meters thick and wide lol, the panel you've used to calculate it includes the dust and fragmented stone released from the punch- the hole is not even visible in the shot. It's not the best view by any metric and other panels contradict it.

As for the staircase which your calc says is ninety meters in all dimensions, here's what it actually looks like-


There are over 30 steps, and 2 steps are about as tall as a knee. For the staircase to be 90m tall there would need to be over 400 steps. Ninety meters is the size of a fucking skyscraper, as shown above. To attack the panel for that calc in general, its clearly a map and maps used stylized images to represent notable objects rather than always being drawn in scale.

You are using visual showings to determine the size of an objects, and it makes no sense for you to reject the same visual showings when it posits otherwise.
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
Ah

So you're the exact kind of hypocrite I pegged you for :maybe

What's with the city still being there?

A couple megatons? Total fatalities would be on the order of a blast radius of 17.5 kilometers and would only need 6 megatons or so to accomplish the feat

So where is your assessment from? The crater and the matter ejected therein. Assuming vaporization from even less than I had, purely the absence of matter present on screen
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Because Overlord has a explicit statement of restricting the aoe of a blast.
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
2. If it's OG who did it, don't act like he's the final word to anything, I've seen him accept shit for less because "it's not that different than Transformers" but no one ever does a true deep dive on their own until the inevitable Deception Thread happens
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what lol why did you bring me into this
I don't generally weigh in on calcs at all because I'm outspoken about how terrible with numbers I am, and I definitely wouldn't be making claims about whether or not something is or isn't vaporization because I don't know the slightest thing about the physics involved there. That's entirely in people like Chaos' domain to hammer down

Transformers is pretty much the looney tunes of the mecha world and the reasoning I use for justifying stuff for that is generally the opposite of this (it was accepted for X series so here's an example of that same thing in Y)
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
Ah

So you're the exact kind of hypocrite I pegged you for :maybe

What's with the city still being there?

A couple megatons? Total fatalities would be on the order of a blast radius of 17.5 kilometers and would only need 6 megatons or so to accomplish the feat

So where is your assessment from? The crater and the matter ejected therein. Assuming vaporization from even less than I had, purely the absence of matter present on screen
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This was my response to similar
Marigold said:
I look at the amount of stone vaporized, I calculate the energy needed to vaporize that amount of stone, I translate that number to tons of tnt and get megatons
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If you had the numbers that without a doubt proved enough material was vaporized to match gigatons, then I'd 100% concede
 
Marigold said:
Because Overlord has a explicit statement of restricting the aoe of a blast. Mentioned it already
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Does it?

That's cool then, and ultimately not my concern

That's hardly ever observed, ergo I don't concern myself with it anywhere else. This isn't special to Overlord, HxH, etc

Darth Zion said:
Isolated moments? Taking the most consistent value is something I agree with- but in the two cases I mention, the scans you've used are not the most consistent. You've calculated the hole as around twenty meters and the staircase as around a hundred meters.
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You're not getting what I'm talking about

I'm talking about working backwards from scaling the whole construct

Be it the ant mound fortress or the whole of the palace the Ant's took over

The incongruity with scaling the whole isn't ultimately my concern

Ultimately, its about working backwards from the whole to the components. You're asking me to start with the components and work up to the whole. I know the component is not to scale with the whole, but scaling the whole from the components would lead to the same outcome. It's a matter of preference, and I'm consistent about my execution. This is not exclusive to this pair of feats in HxH, its readily apparent in most I've played with. Most egregious was the feats from Bleach's final arc. That's neither here nor there though.
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
You're asking me to start with the components and work up to the whole.
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No? I'm not asking you to do that. There should be no components in this- we simply have a crater and a staircase whose dimensions need to be measured.

What you're doing is using maps and landscape shots to derive the required dimensions when we actually have characters with known heights standing right next to the thing we need to measure. I'm saying that there would be no components or a whole to this if you simply pixel-scaled the characters and the object they are standing next to, and it would probably give a more accurate result since it involves fewer steps.

It would be one thing if the calc required multiple steps when approached using both ways, but it does not. You're simply introducing multiple steps to a single step problem and achieving results in an extremely roundabout way that make no sense to anyone that can eyeball- a skyscraper sized staircase when characters are not tiny dots next to it, and a twenty-meter hole when Meruem himself takes up a significant portion of the diameter when standing inside makes no sense either narratively or logically. The hole seems to be no larger than five meters and the staircase seems just ten meters tall.

Talks about methodology are irrelevant when the achieved result is clearly questionable- as I said, it makes no sense to ignore visual evidence when pixel scaling itself is completely dependant on visual evidence.

Also, about whether working backwards from the whole to the components is more accurate or doing the opposite is more right- I'm of the opinion that it should be case by case, but whichever method involves fewer steps tends to be more accurate since fewer steps means there are fewer places where error might prop up.
 
Anyways, this is not an argument I would spend more time on. That's the last you'll hear about this from me.
 
Darth Zion said:
Anyways, this is not an argument I would spend more time on. That's the last you'll hear about this from me.
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That's what they say when they want the last word :maybe

Might as well say nothing, because the silence has more impact

Anyway, I'll just leave this image of Las Noches and a gallery of Towers Ulquiorra was punting Ichigo through for reference and scale :hm

ueBc6dA.jpeg



It speaks for itself, its incredibly common, your stance is noted and ignored shrugs
 
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