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Did you not read what the translator said? Or the quotes? Both this quote and the translator stated that phases don’t exist in the universe but outside of it. Toaru’s world in this context is the ‘balloon’ that surrounds the universe and its phases. Also this means that Othinus and the TMG’s may be universal+ because she destroyed the universe and something outside of it. To possibly multiversal because of her feat with Gungnir.

Not really, it actually explains shit instead of bringing up questions.

Okay that mention didn't work @Xhominid The Fool Evidence that the universe is separate and smaller than the world.

@Masterblack06 proof from the translators mouth. Universe and world are different and the universe is smaller than the world.

I’ve DM’d the main translator of the Toaru novels on twitter. https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=User:Js06 So you and me are gonna have to wait on that unfortunately. Secondly. Yeah this misconception needs to stop. Touma is not useless against normal people. Hell I can’t remember anytime he actually needed to run against fodder espers except for volume 1 of OT. Case in point. New Testament 11. https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index:NT_Volume11 Which is more like a side story cause it’s an arc that follows Misaki instead of Touma and flashbacks to Touma’s past before he lost his memories. In this novel PastTouma and PastMisaki are chased by Deadlock a group of Level 0’s that hate Misaki and Level 5. Since there level 0’s Touma shouldn’t be getting any boost from IB. Touma is skilled enough to help Misaki run away despite the speed the deadlock member is moving. Let it be known that Misaki is canonically very unathletic...

Touma isn't beating Saitama that I agree with but everything else. NT 9. OT 2. NT 18. NT 22 The author>you. Plus this shit been explained and repeated in multiple volumes, that's the reason why we say you guys don't understand shit. This isn't something introduced out of nowhere, this is something explained and brought up in the middle of the series and doesn't contradict what is previously stated. It's called foreshadowing/worldbuilding. Not suddenly retconning shit. Because guess what, New Testament isn't the end of Toaru, it's continuing with Genesis Testament, which is still ongoing with 6 volumes out currently. And it started in 2020, only two years ago. https://www.baka-tsuki.org/project/index.php?title=Toaru_Majutsu_no_Index:_Genesis_Testament You'd have a point if this was suddenly introduced in GT 6 but it wasn't. You guys act like Old Testament, New Testament, and Genesis Testament are separate series or something.

Heh, there's 51 volumes of Index alone with OT, NT, and GT it takes some time to find cosmology feats in all those books. You see I would've agreed with that before yesterday if @Irradiance hadn't piqued my interest. It would be a stretch if the words universe and world were used interchangeably, but from what @Irradiance said and what I've checked over this isn't the case. Unlike how earth and phases are used interchangeably with world. In both the Baka-Tsuki translations, and the official Yen Press translations universe is only really used when bringing up the big bang. (OT 18) (OT 22) Yen Press OT 22 Yen Press OT 18 When referring to the verse everywhere else the word world is used. Yen Press Volume 1 Baka-Tsuki's version And well New Testament 12 and 13. New Testament 12 New Testament 13 This is about as explicit as you can get. Not only is the universe considered separate from phases and the world. But since the quote from NT 12 is listing things in...

More evidence that the word universe is actually distinct. I tracked down the official Yen press OT novels. they too use the word universe.

You know what? I'm actually going to push my luck here. @Masterblack06, @Xhominid The Fool. Shouldn't this make Othinus multiversal? Since the universe itself is not connected to the phases nor actually contains them and instead it all floats in a void it should constitute as similar to different universes from what Xhominid and Masterblack explained. And even if phases aren't specifically called out to be universes but layers of reality, Othinus's are explicitly altered copies of the universe as I explained time and time again. Even if there aren't technically alternate worlds in the Toaru cosmology, the way the cosmology seems to be set up. I.e the universe with phases layered on top seems to allow the world itself to be larger than the actual universe, especially since the world and its space-time can be stretched to be even bigger already. The universe being separate from the world should in fact give the Toaru verse a huge boost.

Ah, I remember something, in one of the novels there was a thing called Divine Mixtures. https://toarumajutsunoindex.fandom.com/wiki/Divine_Mixture Which is based on the Greek gods merging with the Egyptians. Would that be its own phase?

@Irradiance pointed out that the term universe in ToAru means expansion of matter after the big bang. Not the entire 'world' including phases. And it does make some sense now that I think about it. Take Crowley's Blasting Rod, if the big bang included the creation of phases, times 10 then that would mean his Big Bang's would possibly be more powerful than Gungnir. Which doesn't really make sense cause I'm pretty sure Crowley is weaker than Othinus But if phases did come after with humans and magic and are separate from the 'universe' then that would mean that the term 'world' would include both the phases and the actual universe, which means that the 'world' itself would be bigger. This isn't even the first time something like this has been introduced. Kamisato's World Rejector works by literally stretching the universe and sticking another lifeless earth in another timeline. Edit: Crowley also says he's surpassed the limits of the universe when he uses Blasting Rod not world.

Nowhere is it said that there are infinite phases, neither I nor @Irradiance or @Mr.OMG said they were. Actually @Irradiance sent me something Can't believe I hadn't realized it since I used the quote from NT 12 and NT 13 multiple times. But it suggests that Toaru's 'universe' is smaller than Toaru's 'world.' @Masterblack06, wouldn't this put Othinus at universe+?

Yes.

Huh, I didn't know that. That's cool, which novel is this explained in?

@Masterblack06 already said that Othinus and the TMG’s feats put them at universal just not above, last page. This is why it’s better to read the quotes, I can’t really explain it as well. The World is stated to be balloon. With the hidden phase and True Magic Gods being outside of it. Inside this balloon are the layers of the world, called Phases. These phases are layers of reality that contain the Gods and there homes. In Old Testament 4 it's explained that these phases exist at different frequencies which is why you can't take a spaceship to heaven. These phases float around in a void when they bump into each other they can influence each other. Heaven also seems to be acausual or runs on it's own time. It's possible it's the same for other phases. Othinus explicitly destroyed everything to hit the 'black world', except for the hidden phase. And the hidden phase doesn't actually exist. The universe-sized phases come from when Othinus remade the world...

Okay. Sure. First of all the Toaru universe is layered with multiple dimensions inside of it. There is no parallel universes either, just one universe. These dimensions are called phases, they contain the Gods of myth and their homes. (Heaven, Hell, Olympus) With gods of different religions existing in different phases, so there’s a separate phase for heaven and a separate phase for hell. In Old Testament 4 Tsuchimikado explains that Phases exist on different frequencies like high and low radio waves, which means that beings that aren’t attuned to those phases can’t sense these phases or these phase beings. (An example brought up in OT 4 is that God could sit right next to a human but that human even wouldn’t be able to sense God because he isn’t attuned to Heaven, or a Demon and Angel could be right next to each other and never know because they aren’t attuned to each other’s phases. It’s only in the human realm there able to interact which each other.) Also, @Mr.OMG posted...

Also I made multiple posts explaining the cosmology of the verse and the MG's powers and who they scale above and too in this thread. https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/#post-64005 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/#post-64054 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/#post-64128 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-2#post-64149 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-2#post-64147 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-2#post-64154 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-3#post-64208 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-3#post-64209 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-3#post-64248 https://onelastforum.com/threads/mad-god-genis-vell-vs-toaru.1619/page-3#post-64263...

Don't really want to get into the debate cause I've already agreed that Genis will win, and that Othinus is universal and not universal+. Just wanted to back this up. From Old Testament 4 Tsuchimikado says that phases are similar to radio waves, they exist on different frequencies and can only interact in the human realm. Stuff like miracles and Divine Retribution are beings of higher phases interacting with the human phase.

That's why it didn't make sense to me, I thought you were bringing up the scale, not that the outside of the universe also has to be destroyed to be considered universal+.

Yes, I posted them all on the front page.