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I don't know if they're in Waver's class but in the sequel novel there's two guys, one with the Noble Phantasms and Authority of Sun Wukong, Set and one other unknown god , and the other guy with that of Typhon and Zeus. So probably them.

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/neo-acacia-toriko-vs-ort-fate-grand-order.1071785/page-16?post=90362945#post-90362945 I can't believe I had to explain to someone why Quetzalcoatl is more powerful than the fucking Dioscuri. Next time I'll probably have to use a dozen quotes to explain why Gilgamesh scales to Svin using his fursona powers. :tiredpepe

I either don't know or don't remember who those are :life

The souls of 7 Heroic Spirits are necessary in the Grail to make the path to the Root. Dark Sakura's magical energy was compared to the Counter Guardians at 1 trillion units. The thing about Dark Sakura tho is that she doesn't just her energy from the souls in the Grail, but also from the path the Grail makes to the Outside of the World, where the Root, which is filled with great amounts of magical energy. Either way you could get the metric of Tiamat = 7+ Grails > 1 Grail = 7 Servants so therefore Tiamat's magical energy > 49 Servants at bare minimum. This math would mean a Grand is worth around 7 Servants and Tiamat is worth 7 Grands, like how the response against Beasts is supposed to be in normal conditions.

Shirou's choice between using a Command Spell to stop Saber from using Excalibur or not. This is after Rin killed Heracles and he has her trapped in his hand, crushing her. Day 11 Dragonslayer, Fate route. Gilgamesh is worth that much and he's unable to fill a Holy Grail by himself, requiring the souls of more Heroic Spirits to have the magical energy to grant wishes. Compare to Goetia, who simply created 7 Holy Grails as a mere step in his master plan.

That's correct, yes. The point I'm trying to argue is that Heracles with all 12 of his lives can indeed survive a full powered Excalibur. The amount of lives he'd retain is unclear, but he'd definitely survive.

At the time Heracles only had 5 lives, so yes, it's normal that a full powered Excalibur would one shot him. Not sure about that, since Caliburn is stated to be able to exert the same firepower as Excalibur. And in the HF movies if we count the number of lives Heracles lost we can conclude Excalibur only took 7 lives.

No, Heracles' instinct tells him that he won't yield to Excalibur if Saber recovers to use it if he has all his lives. And the weak Excalibur Herc swats in a Band End is stated by Illya as not even being able to take 2 lives.

Ars Paulina isn't something he has to cast tho? It's a Reality Marble he constructed 3000 years ago. If Goetia is already a Beast that means he must have already Incinerated the Human Order and gathered the energy for Ars Almadel Salomonis then Ars Paulina must already exist for it. Amongst his hax it's included stuff like: mind control, soul suck, gravity manipulation, time manipulation to make things 105,000 times slower or faster, space freezing, teleportation, resurrection, a curse of sickness that causes instant heart attacks, general reality warping on a planetary surface scale, petrification, and a lot more. Goetia directly scales above Medea in magecraft specifically, who is stated to be one of the top 5 mages in the world, and the Demon God Pillars in general are superior to humans in magecraft. His speed should at minimum be around triple to quadruple digit Mach, without boosting himself. And his reactions should be FTL.

Not sure, the best thing I think would be that ORT is given to have a stellar class Saint Graph, above Draco and Goetia's 1st class and 2nd class planetary Saint Graphs. So if one can determine that Servantverse top tiers have inferior SG's ORT would scale above them. Technically speaking from the OP's rulings I don't think VN feats are even allowed either. Yeah, it is that biased. Yes, FGO scaling is outlawed in that thread. Anime onlies don't like reading you see.

In energy output it scales above Goetia so galaxy level AP. In durability it scales above Cernunnos requiring12 Rhongoymyniad to be defeated, and since 1 Rhongomyniad >= Wodime = Zeus (solar system to galaxy level AP), that also gives it a similar level of durability. ORT also scales above U-Olga Marie, who was not even scratched by Wodime after using the Sirius Light, so solar system busting is not even enough to scratch ORT's main body at its peak. I'm too lazy to talk about its abilities :life

When did Medea's beam ever fail to do anything to Heracles? EMIYA told us they are rank A, why would it fail?

Problem is that in that specific thread they're refusing to use feats from anything other than the UBW and HF animes. Otherwise the thread would have probably not gone beyond a second page.

Could you send your potential step sibling flying with one blow? And also this:

Just because Shirou was able to to exchange blows with Kuzuki doesn't mean their strength is similar, and the way he did it was very much not fine. Archer can have 10 times the strength of Shirou without having nearly that much of a difference in strength with Kuzuki.

Nothing about the quote indicates it refers to stamina. From DeepL: 力 = power, force, strength.

I was against stuff like regular Servants with regular NP's being star level and shit. But this is Zeus we're talking about, who is explicitly stated to have magical energy countless orders of magnitude greater than Artemis' cannon, which can destroy planets. You're harder to please than an Asian parent on a Steven He skit :giogio

More circles around IO> some circles around the Earth. That's because it IS explicitly contradicted: Goku taking 24 hours to cross 1.000.000 kilometers (betweem 5,000-8,000 battle power, Mach 33) Kuririn going all out taking 20 minutes to go from Kame House to the islands where Cell was. (13,000 battle power, assuming a distance of 10,000 km, Mach 24) Vegeta considering travelling 20,000 kilometers in a second a feat only possible with teleportation (1,000,000+ battle power, Mach 58,309) Piccolo taking 29 minutes to get where Gotenks was napping (150,000,000+ battle power) Earth's circumference: 40,000 km Gotenks circling around the Earth several times (5 as a low ball) Earth's surface area: 510,000,000 km 510,200,000 km in 29 minutes = 17,593,103 km/m So even if we assume that Piccolo was following Gotenks in his circling of the Earth and travelling across the entire surface of the Earth on top of that for no reason, it only give us 0.97 of the speed of light

The best solid feat of speed that Gogeta gets is Gotenks circling the Earth several times 29 minutes or less. Even if you we were to assume it was just one second it'd still be slower than the feat Saitama performed on the moon of Jupiter. Scaling DB characters to FTL starting from Piccolo's moon busting ki blast is not consistent with the actual speeds of stronger characters from later arcs.

Rule Breaker nullifies contracts, that's about it.