Constantine (DC Comics) vs Ainz (Overlord)

[Xhominid The Apex]

Im really struggling to figure out what constantine would even try to pull on to get ainz to that state? He's unapologetically a selfish, evil monster and as a human he was an unfeeling uncaring drone that didn't even cry over his mothers death and ignored street orphan corpses because he was so numb to suffering in general.

Ainz never had strong enough morals to really target his descent into evil. Nor does he particularly miss things from being human (He often wonders what it'd be like to taste things in new world but his old world the dude ate nutrient paste, not eating is essentially an improvement)

Touch me would be upset with him? Oh no, he's already acknowledged that and concluded it didn't matter, that he wasn't touch me and he couldn't force himself to care about justice.

The issue to me fundamentally ainz never stood against anything, he was proud of his gamer guild, loved his friends and that's kind of it. He doesn't love his friends enough to change what he is/stop being an evil monster.

And I kinda disagree, if your not depressed getting someone to kill themselves seems like it'd be extremely difficult even more so when the person your dealing with will stop feeling sad the moment it gets to be "to much"

I don't know, I feel you are basically acting as if Ainz is somehow impossible to screw with considering the people Constantine had tricked, fooled into falling into his schemes, hook, line and sinker.

I think you are putting too much on how the story really wants to paint Ainz in one way but it never really seems to pop up the way the writer wants it to be in the other.

 

[Randomdude]

I don't know, I feel you are basically acting as if Ainz is somehow impossible to screw with considering the people Constantine had tricked, fooled into falling into his schemes, hook, line and sinker.

I think you are putting too much on how the story really wants to paint Ainz in one way but it never really seems to pop up the way the writer wants it to be in the other.

NAh Im asking what he'd target, ainz as a person doesn't care enough about most things for constantine to get a hook deep enough to convince him exit server.

Im focusing on what we know in cannon, ainz didn't cry over his mothers corpse, was numb to street orphan corpses, didn't care that the world was in a horrible shape.

He whined about things occasionally like shitty nutrient paste/medications but he didn't care like many of his friends did, it's honestly one of his biggest traits, his friends all had things they cared about/were invested in, ainz was numb to most things outside the guild/game. His friends were invested in nature, society, justice, evil, history, heck hentai in one case...Ainz didn't care about any of it outside that it made them happy, he survived by not caring. As Ive always stated ainz greatest sin is apathy.

LIke I fully believe Constantine could trick him into thinking/believing something but getting him to kill himself is a herculean task imo because it requires either depression (which ainz can't fall into) or a strength of character and investment in the world ainz hasn't had in his entire life.

Like constantine could probably convince ainz the world/universe would be better off without him, heck pretty easily considering he's an undead abomination full of evil magic that can infect the world with more undead (the way negative energy works ainz being around could very well lead to undead monsters rising)...Ainz is selfish enough that he'd just not care, he'd say "Well sucks for the universe then doesn't it?" Because he is fundamentally a selfish evil person at his core. He has stated in no uncertain terms he would burn the world to ash for the npcs/nazarick, not to keep them safe mind you, to make them happy.

Maybe if he went the friendship route, got ainz emotionally invested in him/someone and had that person push ainz to suicide? Though even then I think it'd be a hard toss up whether it would actually get through to him, I honestly expect ainz would probably just abandon that friend to make them happy with him "Being gone" before going the exit server route.

Or maybe he could convince ainz his death will protect nazarick? Though that would probably vary depending on what point in the timeline ainz is from and with what he knows of nazarick he's aware they're not going to do well with his death...

Now most of this is meaningless since Constantine can deal with ainz easily. I just felt the need to point out with how ainz character works convincing him to kill himself is liable to be an incredibly arduous task

 

[Papa Nier]

So I asked ChatGPT about the other games Ainz collaborated with.

Let’s examine the strength and speed levels across all the series Ainz has collaborated with, detailing their scaling to understand how strong and fast Ainz might be in these contexts.

A Certain Magical Index: Fantasy Convergence x Overlord

• Strength: A Certain Magical Index has characters like Magic Gods who can manipulate reality on a universal or even higher scale, including time, space, and fundamental forces.
• Speed: Top-tier characters possess speeds in the massively faster-than-light (MFTL) range, reacting within nanoseconds or faster.

A Couple of Cuckoos x Overlord

• Strength: This is a slice-of-life romantic comedy with no supernatural elements, so Ainz’s strength remains unchanged or comedic.
• Speed: Human-level speeds, and no upgrade applies to Ainz here.

AFK Arena x Overlord

• Strength: AFK Arena’s high-level heroes can reach city to continental strength, though the power levels are heavily game-based and variable.
• Speed: Characters show superhuman speeds, but nothing on an interstellar or cosmic scale, keeping Ainz relatively within his own power range.

Altina X Overlord Special Collaboration Booklet

• Strength & Speed: Altina is a novel series with political and military themes. There’s no boost for Ainz here, as the series is low-powered with grounded battle mechanics.

Caravan Stories X Overlord

• Strength: This fantasy RPG includes powerful spells, elemental manipulation, and summoning, but scales more around high-country level at most.
• Speed: Characters are fast but remain below light speed, so Ainz’s usual teleportation and spellcasting speed are more than sufficient.

COMPASS x Overlord Collaboration

• Strength: COMPASS characters wield destructive magic and elemental attacks, but strength caps at city-level feats.
• Speed: Reaction speeds are superhuman but not faster than light; Ainz’s teleportation would still be an advantage here.

Crystal of Reunion X Overlord

• Strength: Heroes are capable of country-level attacks and magical feats.
• Speed: Characters move at low supersonic to high subsonic speeds; Ainz retains his speed advantage.

Dragon Egg X Overlord

• Strength: This mobile RPG includes monster taming, with some creatures reaching mountain-level feats, so Ainz is still more powerful.
• Speed: Mostly limited to fast-human speeds, so no scaling upgrade for Ainz.

Dragon’s Dogma Online X Overlord

• Strength: Characters here scale to high-city or country-level threats; dragons and mythical creatures pose a challenge but remain within Ainz’s range.
• Speed: Characters have quick reflexes but don’t surpass Ainz’s own reactions.

Epic Seven x OVERLORD

• Strength: Characters can cast large-scale spells, often around country-level.
• Speed: Some fast reactions and movements, but again, nothing faster than light, so Ainz’s teleportation remains superior.

Grand Summoners x Overlord Collaboration

• Strength: Powerful Grand Summoners characters reach planetary levels, potentially making Ainz approach this scale if he’s given such boosts in the game.
• Speed: Top characters reach hypersonic to light-speed reactions, so Ainz could be upgraded to faster-than-light within this setting.

Heroes Evolved X Overlord

• Strength: Heroes can display city to country-level abilities, with magic and summoning similar to Ainz’s style.
• Speed: Speeds are superhuman but remain below light speed.

Isekai Quartet & Isekai Quartet The Movie -Another World-

• Strength & Speed: Isekai Quartet is comedic, so while characters are powerful, scaling is played for humor. Nothing boosts Ainz’s abilities here to multiversal levels, though he retains his typical strengths.

Knives Out x Overlord

• Strength & Speed: Knives Out is a battle royale shooter; no supernatural boosts are applied here, leaving Ainz’s power unchanged.

KonoSuba: God’s Blessing on this Wonderful World! X Overlord

• Strength: KonoSuba characters typically cap at city-level magic. The deities in KonoSuba are powerful but not close to multiversal.
• Speed: Speed levels are limited to high-human, with a few superhuman feats, so Ainz’s teleportation is an advantage.

Kotodaman x Overlord

• Strength & Speed: Kotodaman is a word-based RPG with puzzle mechanics, and character feats do not affect Ainz’s stats.

Langrisser X Overlord

• Strength: Characters can reach high-country level with magic and skill.
• Speed: Speeds are enhanced to superhuman, so Ainz’s teleportation keeps him dominant.

Last Cloudia X Overlord

• Strength: High-level characters can exhibit city to planetary-level abilities.
• Speed: Faster-than-light reactions are possible, giving Ainz a minor boost in speed within this crossover.

LINE Rangers x Overlord

• Strength: City to country-level, keeping Ainz within similar limits.
• Speed: Speeds are superhuman but not above light-speed.

MapleStory X ISEKAI QUARTET

• Strength & Speed: MapleStory’s characters are often town to city-level in strength, with teleportation but not true faster-than-light speed.

Mass for the Dead Collaboration Events

• Strength & Speed: Directly related to Overlord’s universe; no further scaling is given.

Overlord II X Chain Chronicle 3

• Strength & Speed: Chain Chronicle characters display regional-level power and superhuman speeds, making Ainz’s teleportation a key advantage here.

Overlord X Golem Barbarian Crossover Story

• Strength & Speed: This doesn’t affect Ainz’s strength significantly, as it’s within Overlord limits.

Overlord X Logres

• Strength: Logres characters have high-power magical attacks, but scale mostly to mountain or city levels.
• Speed: Movement is fast, but below light speed.

Overlord X MAH-JONG FIGHT CLUB Sp

• Strength & Speed: Mah-Jong games do not affect Ainz’s scaling.

Overlord X Summons Board

• Strength & Speed: Feats do not increase beyond city-level, keeping Ainz at his base power.

Overlord X Unison League

• Strength: High-level players can summon attacks around high-town or city-level power.
• Speed: Speeds remain below faster-than-light.

Overlord X Valkyrie Connect

• Strength: Characters scale around city to small country levels with mythological powers.
• Speed: Speeds are quick but not light-speed.

Pocolon Dungeon X Overlord

• Strength & Speed: No major scaling enhancements are provided here.

Pure Pure Pleiades × Kage-Jitsu!

• Strength & Speed: This is a crossover with light parody elements, keeping Ainz’s power similar to his standard levels.

Seven Deadly Sins: The Battle of Light and Dark - Kongbakpao x Overlord

• Strength: Seven Deadly Sins characters can reach high-country or continental feats.
• Speed: Speeds are high but not faster-than-light, keeping Ainz’s teleportation as his main speed edge.

TalesWeaver X Overlord

• Strength & Speed: Scaling stays around city-level, with limited boosts to Ainz.

That Time I Got Reincarnated as a Slime X Overlord

• Strength: Tensei Slime has characters with reality-warping and continental to multiversal powers, especially at the demon lord level.
• Speed: Higher-level characters operate near light-speed, so Ainz might gain a slight boost but still wouldn’t scale to true multiversal.

Summary

Overall, most crossovers keep Ainz’s abilities within high city to continental levels, with some possible boosts in speed up to light-speed reactions. Only in crossovers like Grand Summoners and Tensei Slime might he reach near-planetary strength or high light-speed, but nothing multiversal or megaversal. This setup leaves Ainz well below SMT or DC’s highest cosmic tiers.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

I have played plenty of them and Ainz and Co. are barely active in some like Epic Seven and Last Cloudia(i.e. either no real story or they don't really fight with anyone worth a shit).

The Grand Cross Collab is the funniest because there is ZERO story whatsoever and they are just there unlike the Re: Zero, Slime, Attack on Titan Collab or even the freaking The Stranger Things Collabs

 

[Papa Nier]

So including crossover shit for Ainz couldn’t save him from that asswhooping

 

[King]

The issue is ainz literally can't get that depressed before his nature as an undead resets him to a normal state. From what ainz has been able to discern the moment his emotions would impact his choices/decision making they get reset.

Not that Constantine needs to but emotional manipulation isn't one of those things that can get you far with ainz because he has a magic reset button that triggers whenever something crosses a line where it'd actually matter/effect him.

Though ainz killing himself would be rather entertaining, as he'd essentially have to repeatedly blast himself with high tier holy magic as his magic resistance stat and health stat as a level 100 means he can tank quite a few high level spells.

The result is still the same is John manipulating Ainz to destroy his own tomb and commit suicide

 

[Randomdude]

The result is still the same is John manipulating Ainz to destroy his own tomb and commit suicide

All right how? What logical train of thought/discussion leads ainz to that point? What strings does john pull on to get ainz dancing to that tune?

Im open to hearing it, as I stated I fully believe john could deceive ainz, its getting him to commit suicide I find harder to believe due to ainz lack of convictions about most things, amoral nature, and inability to fall into despair/depression without magically getting reset.

Ainz is just a bad character to try and use social fu on because he cares so little for most things, genuinely doesn't care that he's a vile evil monster and had a magic lobotomy that stops his emotions from overwhelming him. In most cases social fu is about convincing someone their death is for the greater good or driving that person to despair.

As mentioned the only things I could really think of are convincing ainz it somehow protects nazarick or becoming ainz friend and pushing from that angle. Both of which come with flaws/caveats.

 

[Paxton]

Yeah I really don't get what angle Constantine's supposed to take exactly in that scenario

He could deceive Ainz and take him in a fight with prep, absolutely, but just saying he can convince him isn't much of an argument

"Contessa uses PTV and wins" ass argument

 

[King]

John only controls Ainz's mind and forced him to do whatever John demanded, and that's it

 

[Randomdude]

John only controls Ainz's mind and forced him to do whatever John demanded, and that's it

If your talking about magically controlling ainz mind/altering it sure he's done enough crazy shit I doubt ainz could resist especially if he's had any time to prepare, but the original post I was responding to was about john convincing ainz to kill himself, which doesn't seem feasible without essentially mind control for the reasons I listed previously.

Ainz is an evil selfish monster that can't experience depression or despair at the levels where death seems preferable. And he could care less that the world would be a better place without him which makes it incredibly hard to sell him on exit sever himself. He doesn't have the convictions or strength of character necessary to make that effective.

If you have some idea on what john would say to get him to that point Im open to it but I really can't think of anything.

 

[Darth Zion]

Constantine stomps.

That being said, the argument that he would talk the skeleton to death does not really hold, it's like seeing a worse version of the 'Contessa has PTV so she can trick Character X into suicide' argument that SB loves to use. People in stupid arguments threads clown on it whenever it pops up, so I find it surprising how the same shit propped up here.

@Xhominid The Apex and @Bao Thanh thiên, If you're arguing that John would literally talk him to death, then it's on you to actually explain how and prove Ainz would be emotionally or logically vulnerable enough to actually go through it. Besides, why even go through such logical leaps when John's strong enough to defeat Ainz conventionally?

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

@Xhominid The Apex and @Bao Thanh thiên, If you're arguing that John would literally talk him to death, then it's on you to actually explain how and prove Ainz would be emotionally or logically vulnerable enough to actually go through it. Besides, why even go through such logical leaps when John's strong enough to defeat Ainz conventionally?

I did explain it because you can, in a hilarious fashion, convince someone logically that their life is meaningless and killing themselves would be a net-positive. Constantine has made winning plays against beings unfathomably stronger than Ainz just by talking them into doing exactly what he wants them to do despite them having Constantine dead to rights.
I don't see how Ainz having something that blocks his emotions(or suddenly that he's now some true evil monster all along, that feels false as shit to me) is gonna stop that from happening.

 

[Darth Zion]

I did explain it because you can, in a hilarious fashion, convince someone logically that their life is meaningless and killing themselves would be a net-positive

That's a positive claim though which you have to prove, and even if somebody were convinced that dying would be a net positive, they just might not have the intent to actually go through with murdering themselves- a man just might not care about the world or he might just like himself more than the wellbeing of others, so you also have to prove that the character being manipulated would actually go through it.

At that point, why not just argue that John would stomp because he has far better dakka and hax like this thread was intended to compare? Why make so many logical leaps or even make a VS thread if your argument is that the other side would literally commit suicide without fighting?

Constantine has made winning plays against beings unfathomably stronger than Ainz just by talking them into doing exactly what he wants them to do despite them having Constantine dead to rights.

Sure, Constantine runs circles around Ainz and has successfully played beings unfathomably stronger than him, but this is a fight instead of a therapy session- why would they even stop to have a conversation when their intent is to blast the other to dust? Why would Ainz even be inclined to listen to him or why would Constantine even sit down to talk given they are both entering the battlefield to fight?

Your argument would be somewhat less unreasonable than it is now if Constantine has prep, but that's not even mentioned.
Besides convincing someone takes a conversion, which neither of the characters are here for.

 

[Randomdude]

I did explain it because you can, in a hilarious fashion, convince someone logically that their life is meaningless and killing themselves would be a net-positive. Constantine has made winning plays against beings unfathomably stronger than Ainz just by talking them into doing exactly what he wants them to do despite them having Constantine dead to rights.
I don't see how Ainz having something that blocks his emotions(or suddenly that he's now some true evil monster all along, that feels false as shit to me) is gonna stop that from happening.

As I mentioned numerous times this doens't work with ainz, ainz could easily be convinced that his death would be the best thing for everyone...and he'd still go "sucks to be everyone else" He's to selfish and self centered for this idea to work. He literally considereds killing the rest of the world preferable to making one of his children upset. Ainz world view is that he is more important then the rest of the world.

Suddenly some evil monster? He's always been pretty evil, a selfish monster that would burn the world to ash if he thought it would benefit him enough. He has stated as much, ainz isn't a moral agent, his priorties in general go npcs>nazarick>Himself>Everything else.

The best ainz has ever been was as a human he was a broken salary man entirely numb to death and suffering of others that was obsessed with a video game.

Like I really don't get what john is meant to be targeting to get ainz to kill himself. All your saying is "He'd make a logical argument that it'd be a net positive" A net positive for who? If not for ainz he's not going to care, again in the novels ainz considers that he would burn the world to ash for the npcs/nazarick. We're not dealing with a logical or rational creature. We're dealing with magically lobotomized sociopath that considers a dead world a viable alternative to reeling his npcs in.

Like I said the only routes I can really think of are becoming ainz friend and pushing from there, or targeting nazarick and saying his death would protect them.

edit: We are dealing with a character who ordered one of his subordinates to make a big evil demon for him to defeat, this subordinate went on to make nation wide concentration camps, with inhuman breeding experiments, skinning, cannibalism, animal human organ swapping and basically every screwed up experiment that would make ww2 Germany go "thats a bit much"

Ainz upon visiting this country and even coming to like one of the victims of demiurges actions (Demiurge literally killed her father), seeing this absolute evil devastation caused by his orders first hand...gave demiurge a head pat and told him he did a great job.

To me the hurdle isn't even really ainz is evil, it's that ainz is self centered, ainz and those cares about are infinitely more valuable then the rest of the world.