Lethal meets a certain archetype according to Klopp's model.
Can you explain Klopp's model? I don't understand this
A Level 2 "Aggressor" wolf.
Superficial reasoning (attacking the HOW, not the WHAT).
I found their initial focus on me a bit curious. I couldn't put it into words (not least cause I had no idea who they meant by 'gad' at the time) but the 'noted' felt a bit artificial to me. I asked people to clarify if this is how Lethal normally plays but I don't think I got an answer to that. Then I forgot about it but you reminded me again
More superficial reasoning.
It did feel like Lethal just dismissed everything I wrote with sweeping statements, I question if they even bothered to read it
This is clearly emotionally very strong language, a question to consider for those more familiar with Lethal's meta is - is this level of emotional expression within Lethal's wolf range? I know Jay23 said later on something about how wolves often limit their expression of emotion subconsciously, curious to know your thoughts on this and whether you think this applies to Lethal or not
Alexis is pushing people now (Lethal and jay23) so it would be interesting to see if or how Lethal's perspective has shifted since those posts yesterday
I see this constant focused aggression as a way to simulate strong conviction and intimidate me and others without needing nuanced emotional range.
Not sure if I agree with this theory, I had small doubts about Lethal early that I had attributed to a culture clash, but given those questions were ignored from what I can tell, it's possible I was attributing too much of my doubts to 'culture clash' and giving Lethal a pass early on when it wasn't really justified. I can only base it on what I see in the game if no one else offers context.
1) While tunneling isn't inherently wolfy, the manner matters. Lethal tunnels hard on Mlraka initially and then pivots to an equally intense tunnel on me once I target him.
So you think it's the intensity of the tunnel and the singularity of the emotion (rather than a more 'chaotic' and less ordered spread of emotion that we experience as townies) that makes Lethal scummy?
2) Lethal's extreme language and especially the threat in #291 can be seen as a wolf trying to appear town-confident through sheer force. Will repeat some of this later here.
Do you think a wolf would be that blatant though? It seems a curious way to draw attention to oneself, though I do note that Lethal seems to be just taking a conclusion and pushing it hard rather than giving deeper analysis. Granted that may be due to playing more intuitively than analytically but I'm not sure how i feel on this yet.
Lethal challenges BradLand's hesitation on Mlraka. The vote switch lacks deep progression beyond reacting to Brad's lack of aggression.
So you think Lethal's overall progression is erratic? Not sure that is necessarily scummy in itself
Lethal switches his vote to an inactive player. This doesn't necessarily have to mean anything, but it can be noted that wolves are much more self-aware and feel an internal pressure to do something, anything. Voting an inactive can be a low-risk way for a wolf to fulfill this pressure to act and appear to be contributing, without targeting someone who could push back.
Tbh I interpreted Lethal changing their votes many times as more townie in isolation. Do you feel like there may be some biases at play where you see them as scum and therefore everything they do is scummy? Or is there a deeper reason why you think Lethal is feeling an internal pressure from a wolf perspective of doing things, as opposed to our pressure of finding who is town and who is mafia before it's too late?
He's not really saying much here.
The vote switch felt pretty random there. Would a wolf really draw this much attention to themselves on day 1, especially on a closed setup?
He's a wolf providing superficial reads to check the "contributing" box without committing strongly to potentially incorrect town reads.
I agree with you that just presenting a few reads without any explanation is a bit scummy in general. The 'Hayumi not reeking of wolf' wording was especially odd to me.
Lethal's reaction to being voted by me is immediate, extreme, and personal. He demands elaboration but refuses to provide it first.
This does seem an extremely emotional reaction. I also note that very few people have actually addressed the points you've mentioned, preferring to just attack you out of personal frustration or whatever. It's a common situation in politics where, when a person can't refute the other person's argument, they just resort to ad hominem attacks. I note that Luka and Lappland also did this by dismissing your message as AI-written, even though my AI checker shows a 0% AI generated result.
Lethal votes me, again focusing on how I'm playing rather than what specific points make me scum. OMGUS here.
I see a pattern where Lethal basically just jumps to judgements but doesn't really provide evidence or explanation, just assumes that other people see it the same way. Which as we've seen already, is improbable in a game with 18 players
A wolf might make such a statement to:
Intimidate me.
Bluff having a power role.
Both reasons are valid but I also think it could come from a frustrated town. I'd be interested to know why you think it would be specifically from a wolf given such actions are probably more likely to antagonize than frighten into a different action in practice - this is forum mafia not The Hunger Games
He continues to dismiss my playstyle. He aggressively denies my attempt at meta as well.
I do agree that some players (Lethal, Luka, Lappland) seem to be just dismissing you and not considering your arguments. Personally I think it's refreshing to have different perspectives because we're unlikely to nail all the scum with just one point of view, speaking as someone who's tried to carry the entire town on my back many times before only to be bitterly disappointed at how little one person can do. We need to work together and find a synergy between many points of view if we're gonna lynch correctly
Conclusion: Scum.
My Conclusion is: IDFK. I don't think Lethal's actions are having the effect of generating meaningful reads and reactions from people that I presume is the goal, due to the very emotionally charged and unexplained manner in which it's being done, but I also don't think that's necessarily outright scummy. It could be a town bringing in emotional baggage that's affecting their gameplay. I haven't made my mind up, although your arguments have convinced me that my initial town read on Lethal may have been based on incorrect assumptions (such as about culture clash and AtE) and that null is probably a fairer assessment for the time being.
Also, why doesn't the multi-quote within one post show here? It's annoying af to have to scroll up every time to see what Lethal wrote and what Alexis is referring to.