- We're looking for artists. Direct message Dr. Watson for more info!
Kokuchou Mayui vs Kakine Teitoku
- Thread starter Astaro
- Start date
Darth Zion
Preeminent
I know her powers have something to do with space, but what exactly can she do again? I haven't read the Mental Out manga yet.
Darth Zion
Preeminent
Doesn't your quote straight up state that Synthesize Grid can take over Esper powers and create matter that does not exist? That's actually pretty neat.
It seems like both Dark Matter and Synthesize Grid are basically powers that can do everything the other can- it's just that Dark Matter focuses more on the creation of new elements whereas Synthesize Grid is more specialized in taking control over existing ones. Well, I guess it comes down to stats and calculative powers.
Assuming it's OT unawakened Kakine from your image, I would give it to Kakine mid-diff based on the fact that he's faster and would eventually figure out a counter if he keeps his distance but Synthesize Grid can fuck up his powers if he's not careful enough.
Can create walls out of thin air, spatial barriers around a building that block off sound, and jam all signals to completely isolate people inside a building
Can instantly turn the classroom into a Mt. Everest-like environment in terms of low air and freezing temperatures and induce hypoxia by directly removing oxygen and hemoglobin from people’s blood
Some unknown method of erasing matter
Can cancel out powers (this is her answer to anyone trying to mess with her metal particles that act as the medium for her powers in the area such as with Magnetism)
Can produce illusions
Can distort space, her powers even reaching up to the 11th Dimension
More of the extent of her power over matter and space
Can instantly turn the classroom into a Mt. Everest-like environment in terms of low air and freezing temperatures and induce hypoxia by directly removing oxygen and hemoglobin from people’s blood
Some unknown method of erasing matter
Can cancel out powers (this is her answer to anyone trying to mess with her metal particles that act as the medium for her powers in the area such as with Magnetism)
Can produce illusions
Can distort space, her powers even reaching up to the 11th Dimension
More of the extent of her power over matter and space
Last edited:
Can compress explosions into a ball and send them to another area while remotely re-detonating them
Even defends against her own clothes on her back being detonated without a scratch
More on the virtually invincible and limitless nature of her power that makes her on par with her successor, Accelerator.
Even defends against her own clothes on her back being detonated without a scratch
More on the virtually invincible and limitless nature of her power that makes her on par with her successor, Accelerator.
Speed won’t be an issue since scaling puts her at Misaka’s level in terms of combat and reaction speed.
Misaka even admits based on her previous encounter with her that she can’t outright beat Kokuchou in a direct fight as she’s got an answer for just about anything Misaka can throw at her
Darth Zion
Preeminent
Yeah, but Kakine is faster than Misaka.
He was actually keeping up with Accelerator to the extent where he couldn't just blitz and one shot- but had to reverse calculate the new laws of his Dark Matter instead.
I see the Level 5s besides Shokuhou Misaki whose just consistently way too slow and Aihana who we now know is definitely not a fighter themselves, being in the same general speed in terms of reaction and reflex in using their power.
I can see Kakine being more mobile than Kokuchou unless the wings she sprouted this chapters aren’t just for show but as you can see from the scans, her powers don’t require her to move a muscle in order to attack and defend at once
All the shit she put Misaka, Shokuhou, and all the rest of the girls through in the first act was done without even leaving her seat
Darth Zion
Preeminent
It's kinda hard to argue that all Level-5 have the same speed when Misaka cannot even see a Saint moving with her eyes and Accelerator can stalemate an Archangel, another example would be the fact that Salome could also keep Misaka on the backfoot but she got blitzed by Accelerator.
Kakine and Accelerator are evidently faster than the rest of them. Then there's the fact, Dark Matter can also do everything that Synthesise Grid can do.
- Synthesise Grid can create matter that does not exist, well Kakine can also do that.
- Synthesise Grid can take control over existing matter, Kakine can also do that by absorbing things with Dark Matter.
- Synthesise Grid can control esper powers, but Kakine can also produce esper powers with his Dark Matter.
Last edited:
Darth Zion
Preeminent
On that note, I'm pretty sure Dark Matter would also be able to control 11-D space by recreating typical esper teleportation powers. The dude has potential to be the strongest esper for a reason.
Darth Zion
Preeminent
Sure, but this goes for either side- in the scans above, Misaka says that she can't defeat Mayui but she wouldn't lose either.
On the other hand, Misaka was straight-up helpless against OT Accelerator and Kakine can atleast give him a decent fight.
Where was it stated Espers powers are ranked by calculation speed?
I’ve no problem with Accelerator being argued to have the fastest calc speed among Espers but that’s only because of how often his calculation speed is admired in-series (Dark May Project) and having some of the most insane processing feats in the series
That said, keeping up with an Archangel is more or less as good as Misaka consistently keeping up with Brunhild to where she never took a hit from the latter while landing several on Brunhild
Also, Kakine is slower than Accelerator anyway. He got stomped in seconds the moment Accelerator stopped playing
And in their rematch, he was surprised at how rapidly Accelerator incapacitated hundreds of clones with the same specs as his Level 5 capabilities at once
And in the case of Salome, Accel did blitz her while she was mid-gloating but after ripping her arm off, she was able to stay away from him as he gave chase
So scaling him directly to Accel is iffy when the only time he ever kept up with him was an Accel not taking the fight seriously and still outdoing him by fighting him while protecting every bystander at the same time, something Kakine couldn’t even register, let alone replicate himself
Darth Zion
Preeminent
That's not what I said- I said Accelerator has the best calculating speed among espers followed by Kakine.
Kakine infused tens of thousands of foreign vectors into each photons passing through his wing when fighting. That's MFTL, and no other esper even comes close with the sole exception of Accelerator.
Misaki comes third by the feat of calculating the electric currents going through the nerves inside the brain each time she uses Mental Out.
The said Archangel could keep up with Carissa who is stronger than Knight Leader who blitzed Kanzaki.
Brunhild is weaker than Kanzaki- Gabriel is several tiers above perception blitzing her. They are nowhere close in speed, Accelerator can literally knock Kanzaki and Brunhild out without them even realising just by keeping up with Gabriel.
So Accelerator=Gabriel >Carissa >Knight Leader> Kanzaki> Brunhild> Misaka
And Misaka did not keep up with Brunhild either, the Saint was so fast that Misaka could not even perceive her, the only reason she survived is because of her EM Radar detecting her footprints in the Iron Sand she had spread around.
So Kakine is in the tier of blitzing Misaka if he can keep up with Accelerator.
No, that's not true as well. Kakine was keeping up with Accelerator, he got stomped the moment his Dark Matter got reverse calculated.
Accelerator keeping everyone safe in the fight is a feat for his senses and his calculations, it does not mean he's magnitudes faster than Kakine- it means he can calculate faster. He would've just blitzed if that were the case, but his blitzes failed each time and he had to take the harder road by outcalculating him instead.
But these clones don't scale to his original body as well. They trade quality for quantity, even Meltdowner could take out several of them on once which is laughable compared to original Kakine who could take on every single vector on the planet at once during the Accelerator fight, the Meltdowner would've been included in those vectors as well.
On the other hand, Beetle Five Kakine could keep up with White Wings Rensa without any problem who was copying Accelerator's powers at the time.
It's clear that Kakine's body is not that durable if he makes mass produced clones.
Eh… I just go by combat feats.
Scaling doesn’t add up since Carissa fought Archangel Gabriel at only 20% of her previous power with Curtana Original at best
The whole thing with Kanzaki vs Knight Leader seems like Knight Leader taking her by surprise.
Later on, Kanzaki could take on Carissa in a sword clash rather than get hopelessly blitzed + a weakened Acqua was able to keep up with Knight Leader.
Kanzaki was able to fight Acqua at full power and more or less keep up with him, only losing because DMM made this a hopeless battle of attrition where Acqua would easily outlast Kanzaki
Weaker but still not outright slower than Kanzaki.
She did. Call it using her powers to perceive her but point stands that Misaka could take action and use her powers mid-blitz from Brunhild multiple times, including stopping her sword swing when it was already inches from her neck via magnetism
Off screen battle
To further prove
Shows he’s capable of outpacing Kakine though
I’m not talking durability but speed. Several hundred dudes getting destroyed in 15 minutes against a single guy means they weren’t keeping up with him at all.
Was little more than a punching bag that entire fight.
Also his fight with Ringo shows he really shouldn’t be any faster than other Level 5s
Yuzuriha Ringo was brainwashed to have her powers strained to the maximum to imitate Accelerator’s capabilities but she still wasn’t on the same level as Accel or even producing the same results as a genuine Level 5
But she was still fast enough for Kakine to regard her as fast
Tagging Kakine
Last edited:
As for her level, I think we'll have to wait to see if she's really as strong as Accelerator Pre-NT22.
But she might beat base Kakine.
PS. I have a doubt if she could cause nuclear reactions with her power...
But she might beat base Kakine.
PS. I have a doubt if she could cause nuclear reactions with her power...
Darth Zion
Preeminent
I'm specifically pointing this out because Misaka could not even see a Saint move without her EM radar, but that's not something every Level 5 has.
A person who has the same reactions and speed as Misaka which you claim to be the case for Mayui would not be able to even perceive a Saint moving if she does not have a sense multiplier like Misaka's EM radar. The quote I gave proves that, so if she's only as fast as Misaka then anyone remotely approaching the level of a Saint would blitz her if she does not have an EM radar equivalent.
No, it actually shows that he's capable of outcalculating Kakine. The dude blocked every attack from Accelerator including his projectiles, his wind blades, and his wings- this is the reason why Accelerator had to unravel his personal reality, if he was a bit slower then Accelerator would have instantly stomped him as he usually does and not fought him across the city at all.
As you said, calculation is not indicative of speed. They are comparable in speed but Accelerator has superior calculations.
And I'm saying that Dark Matter Kakine is not as physically capable as OG Kakine- that includes speed. My evidence for this is his clones being tagged and destroyed by Meltdowners when even Misaka could react to them and human Kakine was durable enough to tank every vector on Earth.
Come on, Kakine never even took Ringo seriously.