Well, it was understood that the physical universe is the very first rung in the hierarchy of the worlds of the Sephiroth Tree. High-level characters such as Aleister Crowley, Coronzon, Aiwass, designate the universe as the "Surface of the Four Worlds" Olam Asia, and above that are already phase beings like angels, well this is not the end, as there is an inverted tree, Qliphoth, but instead of angels, demons.How does that do so in terms of VS. debates rather than throw the entire series out by having their "World" be bigger than their "Universe"?
Again, it raises more questions, not solve them.
"Tonight, we shall destroy one of the impossibilities facing the world! Summon the divine name of Kamisato Kakeru with physical form and fix him to Olam Asiyah, the surface of the Four Worlds!!!!!!"
"It's no use, Westcott," said Mathers as if he could not hold back any longer. "Magicians are not the type of person who will be accepted by the masses. And yet we continue to leave our mark on history. This is a path we all travel down, is it not? Westcott, your behavior actually proves that that young Aleister Crowley here is walking down the Golden path just like we once did."
"Are you suggesting someone who showed no sign of understanding the arrangement of our GD tarot can skip straight past visions and accomplish a summoning using a Telesma-level ceremony? Mathers, if we want to avoid losing this promising young man, we should put a stop to this ceremony right this instant. Or barring that, we should at least prepare an exorcising sword in preparation for when he inevitably loses control of the dark forces."
"Oh, don't be so sure. If he was someone of such common talents, do you think an eccentric on my level would fall for him and work to win him over to my side?"
The conversation came to a stop.
That was due to the explosion-like roar that came from the floor.
It was invisible, but something like a powerful mass of wind raged around them.
Westcott was of course the one whose eyes widened.
"You fool!! I told you he would lose control of the dark forces!"
Westcott quickly pulled away the tablecloth that bore the magic circle drawn in pigeon's blood, but the same pattern had been scorched onto the ceremonial ground's floor. It was inorganic, but it had such persistence. It was like something invisible had stuck its hand through the gap of a partially opened door and was trying to force it the rest of the way open.
"Help me with this, Mathers. We need to buy enough time to contact Blythe Road and have them bring over the treasure!!"
"No, not yet!! Ha ha!! This is where things get interesting!!"
Mathers spread his arms wide as if to welcome it.
Then something changed.
The wind did not calm down, but it gained clear directionality. It wrapped around in a fierce whirlwind as if to contain itself within the magic circle scorched onto the floor. Thanks to that, it maintained the intensity of its power, but it was compact and stable. A formless being was held within the circle and trapped like a fairy tale demon. The stage was set and it would have to answer any of the magic user's commands.
It was like a gas light that could only burn within its glass container and would be snuffed out at the turn of the knob.
"What…? What happened!? He had clearly lost control!!"
"You're looking at this in the old way, Westcott. You seem to view the world as 10 spheres plus the invisible Da'at connected by 22 lines, but that Sephiroth is but one side of the world. Aleister Crowley here has recalculated the world using the completely opposite tree."
"The Qliphoth…? You mean the upside-down tree with a demon's name engraved in each imaginary Sephirah!?"
"With enough knowledge and consideration, negative power can be changed into words with which to describe the world. What you saw as a failure was the starting point of success for this youngster. You can search for the stairway up to heaven if you like, but you can also learn the formula by investigating the hole down to hell. Just as reading Dante's Divine Comedy as a bedtime story will make the children tremble in fear. You just have to put in the effort to not turn out the same yourself."
"But this…this is too risky. I get that the reverse of the reverse is the front, but rushing into practical usage without understanding the truth of the words will only lead to summoning more and more dark forces until you have destroyed yourself. You say you want to create a magic work kit that guides you to the miracle you want by lining up the symbols without any technical knowledge, to safely and surely raise up the newcomers with something akin to a detailed board game, and to complete a collective device that will answer questions from master and apprentice alike, but this goes against that entire philosophy! Just as the bible uses complex expressions to obscure the true meaning within, including the evil tree in our Golden cabal will only complicate our essence! If you want secret rituals full of the evil toxins of original grimoires that only a chosen few can understand and bare their fangs against any who make a mistake, then go join the Rosicrucians. I thought you said this isn't what we want!"
"Don't be so sure. It's all about reversing how you think. Just like how -1 times -1 is +1. Understand that and you won't be so confused. Whether you start from the positive or the negative, you can turn it in the positive direction in the end."
"I already said that mental exercise isn't suited for beginners! This is the capital of the proud British Empire, but the people of London still count coins with their fingers to calculate change. The swords and discs appearing and disappearing in that box is enough to confuse them. Listen, this is the state of things in London, the most advanced city in the world. Everyone begins as an amateur. You can't assume the masses can do the same things we can!!"
"What!? Have I not escaped that yet!? Huh? Wait, which one is the real world!?"
"That is an extremely philosophical question, but there is no real reason to distinguish between the two. Even without the example of the Four Worlds indicated by seven candles, the world always has many overlapping layers."
"? ???"
"Although I suppose someone with a soul as low-level as yours would indeed be trapped by the visions of the physical world. Those chains are the mountain's devilishness that reaches for human karma and they are the power that binds human thoughts and leads them to ascend the mountain, but they must have also provided a reassuring push on the back."
Well, it was understood that the physical universe is the very first rung in the hierarchy of the worlds of the Sephiroth Tree. High-level characters such as Aleister Crowley, Coronzon, Aiwass, designate the universe as the "Surface of the Four Worlds" Olam Asia, and above that are already phase beings like angels, well this is not the end, as there is an inverted tree, Qliphoth, but instead of angels, demons.
The Universe is just a physical universe, and the World is a global structure in which there are countless Phases, the Hierarchy of Worlds of the Sephiroth Tree and Qliphoth, where the physical universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, which calls the "Surface of the Four Worlds". Well, as for the Vs debate, the Phases are on a higher step than the Physical Universe(OT 4), because of which the Phased Being cannot just decrease his rank and become equal to a human, and if the Phased Being does get drafted into the Physical Universe, It will either distort all of reality or simply destroy it, Marian, when she summoned the Phase Beings, had to create a separate space and separate it from the universe, otherwise the Phase Beings would destroy the entire universe by the mere fact of existence, as Othinus herself says. The idea is thus Phase>Universe, that is, the destruction of one Phase>the destruction of the Universe.That's not really answering my question though?
Alright let me explain this better: How do you qualify where To Aru's "World" begin and their "Universe" End? How can we use any of this to try and believe this makes them Universal+ or Multiversal rather than them just having a far smaller Universe and thus it wouldn't count?
The Universe is just a physical universe, and the World is a global structure in which there are countless Phases, the Hierarchy of Worlds of the Sephiroth Tree and Qliphoth, where the physical universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, which calls the "Surface of the Four Worlds". Well, as for the Vs debate, the Phases are on a higher step than the Physical Universe(OT 4), because of which the Phased Being cannot just decrease his rank and become equal to a human, and if the Phased Being does get drafted into the Physical Universe, It will either distort all of reality or simply destroy it, Marian, when she summoned the Phase Beings, had to create a separate space and separate it from the universe, otherwise the Phase Beings would destroy the entire universe by the mere fact of existence, as Othinus herself says. The idea is thus Phase>Universe, that is, the destruction of one Phase>the destruction of the Universe.
That the Physical Universe is at the very bottom of the hierarchy of worlds, and higher up the ladder are the Phases, at least up to 8=3, that is to Sephira Binah, as according to Dion Fortune the Magical Gods are equivalent to the beings that dwell in Sephira Binah.That... *sigh* that doesn't actually explain my problem. Yes, you can have a physical Universe and other things outside of that which counts as the same components of the Universe(see Marvel and DC). Here's where my problem is:
How does this translate into somehow To Aru's "World" is bigger than it's "Universe"? If anything, it explains that it's closer to Marvel or DC than it somehow being the other way around. It also fits the ridiculous problem with the True Magic Gods and people here completely make fun of without remorse.
And finally, people being able to make spaces outside of the Universe doesn't expand the Universe or anything like that, it just means you are able to make dimensions outside of the Universe.
Did you not read what the translator said? Or the quotes?How does that do so in terms of VS. debates rather than throw the entire series out by having their "World" be bigger than their "Universe"?
Again, it raises more questions, not solve them.
The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.
Yeah yeah, we heard it all before from you a million times now, Xhom. No one cares.
Funny how this is the only forum that has this issue with the series. I couldn’t have made it simpler with the thread I made.
I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,I like how you continue to believe that you are God's Gift to this forum when no one fucking cares about your fake ass.
Why don't you leave since no, you didn't contribute shit and continue to make it a joke by you existing. Goldenboy actually made a respect topic, you didn't. OMG atleast chips in, you didn't do shit.
You are only doing this now because Masterblack caught you snooping around this forum, as did I and others but I didn't give enough of a fuck of your existence to say anything to you. So how about you do us this actual favor this time and
Get the hell out of here.
Well let's be honest, nobody cares about ToAru except in Asia, only in Asia ToAru is very popular, if they ban ToAru, nothing will happen.I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,
I’m not a gift or anything, it’s only common sense. Go ahead and keep pushing for an outright ban on a popular series. It’s only going to hurt this forum by alienating more potential users from signing up.
It’s big enough to appear regularly on vs topics on several sites which is enoughWell let's be honest, nobody cares about ToAru except in Asia, only in Asia ToAru is very popular, if they ban ToAru, nothing will happen.
I made a respect thread that was deleted actually,
I’m not a gift or anything, it’s only common sense. Go ahead and keep pushing for an outright ban on a popular series.
It’s only going to hurt this forum by alienating more potential users from signing up.
Are you serious? Understand that ToAru isn't fucking popular in other than Asia, and the last chance to make ToAru more popular in the West, the studio completely fucked up by releasing one of the worst anime in human history, called Season 3 of Index.It’s big enough to appear regularly on vs topics on several sites which is enough
I thought you were supposed to leave OLF "forever"? And yet your dumbass kept lurking this place and eventually came to post only after the other two Kamachi lickspittles dropped this steaming pile of autism onto us.No clue.
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