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OBD Convo #43: Merry Christmas, You Filthy Animals

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Claudio Swiss said:
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Wait a sec, was God even mentioned, or did I just miss that? All they mentioned, was 'the elders of Heaven', which isn't a thing. Does Heaven and Hell exist without God in this universe? How the fuck does that even work? How the hell did anything start there, with angels and stuff, who when their names are translated, literally just mean messengers and enforcers of the almighty, 'elders' included, without the almighty?

Confused Rooster Teeth GIF by Achievement Hunter



Also, deadass, that shit about Lilith was some of the most cringe dialogue I've ever seen. :kobeha
 
Masterblack06 said:
i will never understand this whole "eve came second lilith was actually the first!!!!" obsession that people have when writing shit about demons or hell or satan
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A tumblr level furry writer isn't gonna give a good explanation for it anyway.
It's just to make shit look edgy and Heaven/God = bad.
Which already happens due to the whole "God = Evil" idea anyway.
 
But otherwise as many in the comments are saying, that is some real "How you say you didn't read The Bible and hate Christianity without reading The Bible and hate Christianity" vibes.

I can get it's your story and you do whatever you want with it but holy shit, can people stop with the "Heaven Bad, Hell Good" schtick unless you are basically melding Hell with multiple other Netherworlds/Underworlds from different myths at once(And I mean actually incorporating them on both ends)? It just makes you look like a dumbass.

Masterblack06 said:
i will never understand this whole "eve came second lilith was actually the first!!!!" obsession that people have when writing shit about demons or hell or satan
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To be fair, In Judiasm, Lilith DID come first before Eve... the problem is that it's ONLY in Judiasm and the problem is there's no melding of all 3 at once, just primarily Christianity.
It doesn't help that the interpretation of Lilith being "not that evil" ultimately came from the "times" reason she was kicked out of the Garden of Eden(aka because she wanted to be on top... but this was like in the 1500s) but then ignores she becomes a literal demon whose as bad as Lucifer and unrepentant as fuck.

But as everyone else has been saying, they don't even mention God or Satan, just "The Elders of Heaven" which what the fuck does that mean?!
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
But as everyone else has been saying, they don't even mention God or Satan, just "The Elders of Heaven" which what the fuck does that mean?!
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Without God/Jesus, there isn't an authority to stop the Heaven dystopia from existing.

BTW, Helluva Boss (same universe and everything) has demons capable of going to Earth and fucking shit up.
The show is about an imp who has a business of "I go to Earth and kill people for Hell cash".
 
Xhominid The Apex said:
But otherwise as many in the comments are saying, that is some real "How you say you didn't read The Bible and hate Christianity without reading The Bible and hate Christianity" vibes.

I can get it's your story and you do whatever you want with it but holy shit, can people stop with the "Heaven Bad, Hell Good" schtick unless you are basically melding Hell with multiple other Netherworlds/Underworlds from different myths at once(And I mean actually incorporating them on both ends)? It just makes you look like a dumbass.



To be fair, In Judiasm, Lilith DID come first before Eve... the problem is that it's ONLY in Judiasm and the problem is there's no melding of all 3 at once, just primarily Christianity.
It doesn't help that the interpretation of Lilith being "not that evil" ultimately came from the "times" reason she was kicked out of the Garden of Eden(aka because she wanted to be on top... but this was like in the 1500s) but then ignores she becomes a literal demon whose as bad as Lucifer and unrepentant as fuck.

But as everyone else has been saying, they don't even mention God or Satan, just "The Elders of Heaven" which what the fuck does that mean?!
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LeonLex said:
Without God/Jesus, there isn't an authority to stop the Heaven dystopia from existing.

BTW, Helluva Boss (same universe and everything) has demons capable of going to Earth and fucking shit up.
The show is about an imp who has a business of "I go to Earth and kill people for Hell cash".
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You know what's even more baffling? Helluva Boss confirmed the existence of Satan. He's an actual character, but just hasn't made an onscreen appearance yet.

Which brings up the question yet again. How can Satan exist without God also existing?
Confused Rooster Teeth GIF by Achievement Hunter
 
Like I'm gonna repeat myself a bit:

There's a reason why Shin Megami Tensei tends to blend Judaism, Catholicism and Christianity all at once and even ultimately has a reason why YHVH makes even his Old Testament self look like a saint... but even then, there are a number of series that doesn't have Him as just "Evil because Evil".
It's the same reason why Lucifer and Satan are 2 different people(And how Helel is basically Lucifer before he turned Chaos) because that's also in Judaism(Same with Lilith). I don't have a problem if a user wants to blend all 3 in at once(Hell, I plan to do it myself and do my take on it as I will with all of the other takes on Pantheons) but Helluva Boss's is so goddamned cringe because it makes the same goddamned mistakes you see in media these days:

"Heaven Bad because they dared do only Order(When God is a HUGE advocate for Free Will) and Hell good because CHAOS(When no the fuck it's not! Not even close, when fucking SATAN refuses to be in Hell and will never go there, it's not).
LeonLex said:
Without God/Jesus, there isn't an authority to stop the Heaven dystopia from existing.

BTW, Helluva Boss (same universe and everything) has demons capable of going to Earth and fucking shit up.
The show is about an imp who has a business of "I go to Earth and kill people for Hell cash".
Click to expand...

So basically, we aren't having God or Jesus in the show in any kind... but we can make a mockery of Heaven? I liked it better when UltraKill actually went with "God ultimately went insane because of the shit he's done and the Angels went astray due to it" because it was actually unique.

LeonLex said:
Man, let the girl draw gay furry demons in peace.
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Then make a better story for it then! Don't make it be something like the Heaven and Hell we know of and don't have it have any ties to known Religions, plenty of people did that already.
 
Claudio Swiss said:
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Also love how some are roasting this, and how even with the Tumblr backstory, Heaven still comes out looking better than Hell. :heston

Also, some are theorizing that this story is false, and that the season finale will apparently be the reveal of what really happened with Lucifer and Lilith. Now, I don't think this will be the case, given who's writing this slop, but if it is, I promise you Vivzie will find a way to make the real story even worse than the fake one, with Lilith being even 'stronger' and more 'independent' than before, needing no man. :jordangif
 
Claudio Swiss said:
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And literally allowing evil into the earth is supposed to make these two look good?
Masterblack06 said:
i will never understand this whole "eve came second lilith was actually the first!!!!" obsession that people have when writing shit about demons or hell or satan
Click to expand...
Well it does have actual historic precedence as Lilith did precede Eve in Judaism and Mesopotamian myth

en.m.wikipedia.org

Lilith - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
 
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