• We're looking for artists. Direct message Dr. Watson for more info!

Roronoa Zoro vs Piccolo

Status
Not open for further replies.
he's limited by the power of his creator, him having different abilities is not a refutation to that
He is limited by his creator, but by the same token his creator can’t grant wishes either.

Magic is not the same as Ki, and Shenron’s Magic is a different beast to Kami’s powerlevel. We already know Shenron is weaker than Kami because Kami himself is stronger than Piccolo Daimao. These are all holes to the idea that Shenron scales to some powerlevel Kami has.
Open minded means you are willing to hear out, opposing viewpoints to your own.
That’s not the same as agreeing. The fact that I’m talking to you instead of ignoring you already


Piccolo daimio is the same character as piccolo jr
Jr is his reincarnation + son


 
Jr is his reincarnation + son
Son genetically.
Though he still retains his father's personality and personality so same character in a different body yknow like how zero from megaman x also switches bodies yet would be the same character or how zamas in goku's body would still be zamas

it's portrayed they are the same character in the anime, the fandom not agreeing with the how it's presented in the series has no concern to me.
Facts of the story >>>>> Randos online who are not correct about anything






Their the same character factually speaking, there's more then enough evidence saying as such



That’s not the same as agreeing. The fact that I’m talking to you instead of ignoring you already
When did i say, that being open minded equals agreeing with me?? Why are you putting words in my mouth
Also talking to me while ignoring any and all logic and evidence provided is functionally the same as ignoring me anyway also when did commnication become proof of being open minded.

Mindless assertions meant only to feed your own ego, no different to before and just like before you displayed complete lack of understanding of what basic words mean and complete disregard for the idea of objectivity instead quoting what amounts to your religion


Kami also has magic, it's how he creates the shenron to begin with
he brings the doll to life as stated by popo when they revived the dragon


Shenron scales below kami yea, That still does not change the rules of the wish dragon where it cant do anything near or above the level of it's creator like that's why shenron was not used to kill piccolo


Anyways the whole shenron point was just about how he can recreate the moon then kami would also logically have the same tier of power, let's just ignore that this whole shenron argument was just a way to boost the consistency of the planet lv daimao argument
 
Anyone trying to seriously make King Piccolo planet level based off some one-off statement and using the godfather of all outliers that is Roshi moonbusting is so high up their ass they deserve no serious debate. Which makes Sailor all the more patient for even bothering to humor Bob's stupidity here because this has got to be the most obnoxious shit argument I have seen yet this year.

King Piccolo in his prime by feats never comes close to Moonbusting and Roshi's moonbusting is an outlier by the fact we never see anything like it replicated again until the Saiyans arc and due to the very lighthearted comedic nature of early DB feats like the Moonbusting are inconsistent with later feats as well like Goku jumping to the Moon and not dying from lack of oxygen when that was a major plot point in the Namek arc for why he would die instead of Frieza if the planet exploded.
 
Motherfucker exhausts himself just nuking a city, but nah he's totally planet because of a hilariously obvious outlier and one vague statement he makes, that in NO WAY indicates he thought he could destroy the world in one blast (we literally KNOW he CAN'T do this because of his actual feats).

Zoro is gonna cut through both Dragon Ball versions of Piccolo with ease, then die to start of Saiyan Saga Piccolo when we get the legitimate moon busting feat (because it is followed up by much better feats soon after).

Also DENDE is fucking fodder, yet the dragon under him can still remake planets and all kinds of shit Dende himself sure as fuck can't do. There are absolutely things Shenron can do which Kami can't, that's why the Namekians made the Dragon Balls in the fucking first place, they wouldn't need them otherwise if they could do this shit on their own.
 
Anyone trying to seriously make King Piccolo planet level based off some one-off statement and using the godfather of all outliers that is Roshi moonbusting
it's consistent, Daimao is above roshi and shenron both of whom can create and destroy the moon respectively
funny that you consensus types are calling piccolo daimao an outlier, as you also on the other side of your mouth fine saying arceus is universe lv when he died to a meteor and got negged by rando pokemon

you dont give one damn about things being inconsistent as your fine ignoring 90 percent of feats for certain characters if the consensus viewpoint is not consistent with the facts of the matter another example would be momoshiki kaguya lv despite losing to darui and gaara in cqc.
I have you types quite figured out as your simple



Motherfucker exhausts himself just nuking a city, but nah he's totally planet because of a hilariously obvious outlier
Same guys who say arceus are universe lv and momoshiki are kaguya lv, Would be telling me this but again do go on about how he exhausts himself blowing cities when he stated that he would destroy a province every day on may 9th, Also do tell me how piccolo got eighty million times stronger in 3 years like that makes sense.

NO WAY indicates he thought he could destroy the world in one blast (we literally KNOW he CAN'T do this because of his actual feats).

Going by actual feats, Android 18 is what building lv
Scaling and statements are a thing, you know but again if we wanna be a feat purist then SSG goku is not even planet level afterall he never did it on screen

Do you see how the feat purist logic makes zero sense and how none of you actually argue that way until dragon ball is involved funnily enough almost like your biased or something


when we get the legitimate moon busting feat (because it is followed up by much better feats soon after).
Roshi moon busts then it's followed up by a planet statement, how is that literally any different



which Kami can't, that's why the Namekians made the Dragon Balls in the fucking first place, they wouldn't need them otherwise if they could do this shit on their own.
Dragons are weaker then their creators


Facts >>>>>>>>>>>> Fandom's BS
 
it's consistent,
No it's not.
Daimao is above roshi and shenron both of whom can create and destroy the moon respectively
Yet he blatantly exhausts himself just destroying a city in one shot, establishing a clear limit on how strong he is. You can't get around this fact. He is superior to Roshi yet completely fails to replicate Roshi's feat, despite expicitly using his full power in the attack.

There is nothing consistent about it, and Shenron (despite your cries to the contrary) explicitly can do things its creators can't.
funny that you consensus types are calling piccolo daimao an outlier, as you also on the other side of your mouth fine saying arceus is universe lv when he died to a meteor and got negged by rando pokemon
Yeah almost like Arceus and the Creation Trio have multiple casual feats on universe-multiverse level AND consistently take each other's attacks, even when going all out. Not to mention FAR weaker Legendaries consistently bodying the fuck out of any non-top tier trained Pokemon they fight (and even it's usually an uphill struggle for the non-Legendary). The meteor and any rando Pokemon fucking with the Creation is an obvious low end because THEY are the odd ones out as far as their feats go..

Whereas Piccolo Daimao utterly fails to replicate Roshi's feat, nor does anyone else until the much stronger Piccolo Jr in the Saiyan Saga. Roshi's feat is the clear outlier here because the much stronger character straight up COULDN'T do it AT ALL.

Your pathetic attempt to poison the well, only demonstrates your own blatant double standards dipshit.
Says the guy who uses one or two outlying instances to try and pretend Legendaries don't dramatically shit on normal Pokemon. Not to mention blatantly ignoring the obvious fact the Creation Trio can take their own attacks, as can Arceus in favor of a single nonsensical incident with a meteor.

Or to bring it back to Dragon Ball. Says the guy IGNORING ALL OF PICCOLO DAIMAO'S ACTUAL FEATS and focusing on a single obvious outlier and another feat belonging to a character who explicitly can do things beyond what characters stronger than him can.

I'd name you Black Mr Kettle if your claim had any basis whatsoever.
Same guys who say arceus are universe lv and momoshiki are kaguya lv,
Don't give a fuck about the Naruto shit but the Pokemon argument falls flat because YOU are the one ignoring the MAJORITY of Arceus' feats in favor of one low end.

Just like you're ignoring Piccolo Daimao's actual feats in favor of an obvious outlier and another feat he doesn't scale to.
Would be telling me this but again do go on about how he exhausts himself blowing cities when he stated that he would destroy a province every day on may 9th,
Ficitional characters (especially villains) talk shit about their own capabilities all the time. Either overestimating or underestimating himself.

Translation, just because he said he can do it, doesn't mean he actually can.
Also do tell me how piccolo got eighty million times stronger in 3 years like that makes sense.
EIGHT Years moron. 3 years only saw him reach island levels at the 23rd Budokai, he didn't reach moon-planet levels until the Saiyan saga, five years later.

You realize Krillin and all the humans make the same power-jump AND THEN SOME, as they went from < 23rd Budokai Piccolo to a PL of over 1000. And it took them less than ONE FUCKING YEAR to do that.

So it makes sense, because this series has multiple examples of similar (if not greater to ludicrous degrees) power jumps, from characters with less natural ability and potential than Piccolo.
Going by actual feats, Android 18 is what building lv
Android 18 bodied the fuck out of confirmed planet level characters who actually have the feats to put them at that level.

She never outright failed to replicate that level of power, even when going all out like Piccolo Daimao did.
Scaling and statements are a thing, you know
So are outliers and low ends..

Power-scaling has its limits. If a feat doesn't line up with what stronger or weaker characters are capped at, then it's ignored. We don't treat any series any differently.
but again if we wanna be a feat purist then SSG goku is not even planet level afterall he never did it on screen
While you keep trying to pedal these false equivalences and ignoring the actual issue (which NONE of these other instances have) you just make yourself look more and more like an ignorant, trying desparately to act like he has a point.

SSG Goku matched strength on-screen with the character who had the universe level feat to begin with and several characters as strong or stronger, replicate said feats going forward. It's not the same as the Piccolo Daimao situation.
Do you see how the feat purist logic makes zero sense and how none of you actually argue that way until dragon ball is involved funnily almost like your biased or something
Do you see how we're not actually being feat purists here? The series itself shows a hard-limit on Piccolo Daimao's power. A limit which does not line up with Roshi's feat, despite Roshi being PROVEN to be weaker than Piccolo Daimao.

We're perfectly fine with power-scaling as long as it makes sense and lines up with the feats of other characters in verse. Unfortunately that's not the case for Piccolo Daimao.
Roshi moon busts then it's followed up by a planet statement, how is that literally any different
Because the statement Piccolo Daimao makes in NO WAY indicates planet busting. That is an assumption you're making based on a desparate desire to wank him, even as the series itself SHOWS YOU POINT-BLANK that Piccolo can't do that.

"Destroying the world" is vague as fuck and can mean several things, such as wiping out all life and civilization over time. Something Piccolo Daimao could obviously do. It's not a planet level statement.

And Roshi's feat is completely out of keeping with the feats of other characters at the time. Whereas when Piccolo Jr's moon bust happens, it's soon followed by an actual Planet level statement from a stronger character and later actual planet level feats.

THAT'S why its different.
Dragons are weaker then their creators
And yet are still blatantly capable of things outside their creator's capabilities.

You realise DENDE is literally fucking fodder right? Yet the dragon under him can re-create planets and Porunga RESTORE EOS GOKU'S ENERGY. NONE of the creators involved here have the capacity to restore NAMEK SAGA Goku's energy, let along fucking BUU SAGA's energy normally.
Facts >>>>>>>>>>>> My BS
Indeed they are, glad we finally agree on something.
 
Depends if you accept Roshi’s moon buster or not

but that in itself is a shitstorm
Outlier.

Like, perfect definition of an outlier.

Son genetically.
You already conceded my point in this, so no use in following this on later. They’re different characters as stated by Piccolo himself in the Manga.


Kami also has magic, it's how he creates the shenron to begin with
he brings the doll to life as stated by popo when they revived the dragon
Yeah but Popo is the one that has to fix the statue.

its a joint effort for a reason.


Shenron scales below kami yea, That still does not change the rules of the wish dragon where it cant do anything near or above the level of it's creator like that's why shenron was not used to kill piccolo
It can already do things the creator can’t do, like revive people like Vegeta from the dead. He wouldn’t resort to collecting the Dragon Balls if he can just do whatever Shenlong can.

Also he scales below Popo, because he’s also stronger than Goku who was Stronger than Demon King Piccolo.
Anyways the whole shenron point was just about how he can recreate the moon then kami would also logically have the same tier of power,
I read the Manga again, and Goku doesn’t even mention Shenlong.

it’s actually Kami that brings back the moon

and we don’t even know HOW he did it either

 
Yeah almost like Arceus and the Creation Trio have multiple casual feats on universe-multiverse level
Not one really
Dialga was beat by a mamoswine of all things but people just argue on belief rather then fact and that was my point, Arceus and his creation trio being perfect examples of that


The meteor and any rando Pokemon fucking with the Creation is an obvious low end because THEY are the odd ones out as far as their feats go..
There's more times where the fandom's nonsense is debunked then it is affirmed

darkrai getting negged by rando pokemon



a tauros tackling dialga and palkia to the ground

We both are aware of the numerous anti feats which the fandom ignores for the sake of their beliefs, When you compare that with what the one casual city lv feat by daimao. Can you really pretend like it's inconsistency with the scaling that would be problem for you ad populum worshippers?


Android 18 bodied the fuck out of confirmed planet level characters who actually have the feats to put them at that level.
Your argument was that,, Daimao lacks direct feats so he's fodder so where is 18's feats
Scaling not counted as your argument was direct feats remember


Using your own logic 18 is like building lv, I dont actually think she would be of that tier as again there's scaling but your ignoring that and direct statements in favor of actual feats alone which again if we went by your own logic, 18 wouldt be anywhere daimao but again your logic only gets applied when convenient to your beliefs, You have no real honesty to sum it up really

But again we both know how this works, You can claim lack of direct feats to downplay characters which you dont like but when the same is applied to your characters which you like then that sorta logic just flies out the window




Your literally breaking the rules of the site by ignoring my claims like this and trying to make it seem like im to hold such absurd positions as building lv 18 when the context was always just saying if we applied your just direct feats argument equally then 18 wouldt be anywhere near as strong as she would actually be


So are outliers and low ends..
You have failed on all fronts to prove that was a outlier
Based on what's mentioned thus far, We have on my side. Shenron moon creation,planet lv daimao statement and roshi's moon feat

versus your what city feat which you have not proved took all his power

You can claim outliers all you like but from a purely objective standpoint, I have both referenced and cited more examples of it being consistent then you have of it being inconsistent


While you keep trying to pedal these false equivalences
it's not a false equivalence though, nor can you prove it which is why you never bothered to explain why you think in such a way

you said direct feats alone so no planet lv for god goku, that's your logic.
you are just making sh-t up as you cant excuse how stupid, Your logic sounds when it's applied equally


Why even try this pretense of logicality when your clearly only arguing because of your own belief not any sort of fact or reason,

Because the statement Piccolo Daimao makes in NO WAY indicates planet busting.

So when he says destroying the world, he just meant a city?

Ignoring basic definitions of words to further the fandom's narrative, never changed versus debaters never change. disingenuous as always .



Yet he blatantly exhausts himself just destroying a city in one shot, establishing a clear limit on how strong he is
He had no trouble destroying shenron.
Who's not much more bigger then a city


Yet somehow daimao struggles with destroying the city and not the city sized dragon despite being in a stronger form when the city feat was was performed
even then he didt exact struggle destroying the city just causally waved his hand


it's said that he plans to destroy a province every year not a city




Saying lies, Repetitively would not change that they are lies
You only say what you do, As you lack any sort of objectivity only following the group which you swear loyalty too and honestly you cant get me to follow your cult/sect so you will just have to deal with your echo chamber being destroyed by my existence
 
Last edited:
So when he says destroying the world, he just meant a city?
You realize that there are multiple ways to “destroy the world” because the context can mean he will destroy all of civilization in every country,

which still counts as “the world” by the definition you posted.

as such, Feats > Statements here. And Piccolo Daimao has never demonstrated anything beyond City Level
 
Outlier.

Like, perfect definition of an outlier.
You have failed on all fronts to prove that was a outlier
Based on what's mentioned thus far, We have on my side. Shenron moon creation,planet lv daimao statement and roshi's moon feat

versus your what city feat which you have not proved took all his power

You can claim outliers all you like but from a purely objective standpoint, I have both referenced and cited more examples of it being consistent then you have of it being inconsistent

You guys are the borg, verbatim posting the same exact arguments as one another in the same exact manner without one ounce of individual behavior or opination.
your comrade not what a minute earlier





You already conceded my point in this, so no use in following this on later. They’re different characters as stated by Piccolo himself in the Manga.
to quote kami, sorry to disappoint but before daimao died he left behind a shade



He's the same character, piccolo jr even calls himself daimao as if the same person but ig kami and piccolo jr are lying? But the fandom is not?

It's like with buu, He can create copies of himself which are the exact same as himself


Your acting like it's impossible for the same character to exist in two different bodies but of course, it's not about facts with you but rather what the collective thinks


Piccolo is not tambourine, He has his father's memory,power and abilities inherited from birth unlike the other offspring such as drum

you just fail to understand context of the series when making your arguments as the claims which you make are not based on official material but rather what randos online think




Yeah but Popo is the one that has to fix the statue.

its a joint effort for a reason.

Kami cant make a doll now??
It's just more convenient for him to help, Other members of the dragon clan have created eternal dragons without help of popo take porunga


It can already do things the creator can’t do, like revive people like Vegeta from the dead. He wouldn’t resort to collecting the Dragon Balls if he can just do whatever Shenlong can.
why are you still on this, I said it was within relation to power before


Even the literal manga scan has that same context, Why are arguing against a position which was never had by me. do you like hitting strawmen or something?



and we don’t even know HOW he did it either

He never mentions it was kami that brought back the moon just that, he wanted it back
It was you who brought up shenron when, I said kami did it so im not even sure what your trying to say anymore

Shenron did no kami did it actually, just admit you have no idea what you are even talking about cause you surely cant stay consistent to one point
 
Last edited:
to quote kami, sorry to disappoint but before daimao died he left behind a shade
Piccolo Jr literally said it was his father in the manga scan

and Kami in that panel describes him as a “spore” which is literally means it’s his child.


We have on my side. Shenron moon creation,planet lv daimao statement and roshi's moon feat
Shenron was never stated to create the moon.


versus your what city feat which you have not proved took all his power
Chapter 159. Goku tells him twice that his power is too low and his blasts got way weaker.
Kami cant make a doll now??
It's just more convenient for him to help, Other members of the dragon clan have created eternal dragons without help of popo take porunga
that’s how Popo described it in Chapter 165

“First I build things and Kami gives them life”

Popo does the statue and Kami ressurects him



Other members of the dragon clan have created eternal dragons without help of popo take porunga
Yeah but it’s refered to be Namekians in plural. In other words more than one Namekian.

And again, they use magic

He never mentions it was kami that brought back the moon just that, he wanted it back
It was you who brought up shenron when, I said kami did it so im not even sure what your trying to say anymore
I was mistaken with it being Shenlong, only by the fact that it’s not stated to be shenlong. Just Kami. It might be Shenlong but we don’t know what Kami did or even if shenlong was involved
 
Actually….he’s suppose to be both the reincarnation and “son” of Piccolo Daimao

The Japanese explicitly calls them the same person. That’s why you don’t see King Piccolo in hell, because his soul was reincarnated into Jr
 
Piccolo Jr literally said it was his father in the manga scan
father in the genetic sense, piccolo daimao did birth him but unlike with the other kids of daimao, He was a shade of the demon king. a copy


Do you seriously think piccolo jr is no different to the likes of tambourine? When does drum or cymbal ever call themselves daimao or claim they are the same person as their father




that’s how Popo described it in Chapter 165
That's not how it's said
Popo makes the doll sure but it's never stated that kami cant make shenron infact we know that he likely should be able too considering again the people of namek made a porunga doll without the aid of a popo.

Infact, this very scan says he can repair it meaning he does not need popo to do it




Yeah but it’s refered to be Namekians in plural. In other words more than one Namekian.
but we still know they made the doll without the need of a popo type character
so that disproves the idea that kami needs popo to create shenron


Shenron was never stated to create the moon.
Who was it then??? Can you prove it was not shenron?
 
This is basically a semantic debate at this point. Piccolo Jr is both the son and also the reincarnation of Demon King Piccolo. My point is that they’re basically different characters in terms of power level. Piccolo Jr is objectively the stronger of the two


i mean. He literally repaired shenlong there. Its just that he had Popo’s help. He needed the statue to be repaired by Popo. You don’t see Kami just reviving shenlong and his body alone. He specifically asked Popo if he could do it

and again you’re speaking of the “people” of Namek. As in plural. As in they also didn’t do it alone.

and none of this is an actual DC feat by the way.
but we still know they made the doll without the need of a popo type character
so that disproves the idea that kami needs popo to create shenron
Says who. Shenlong is different from Porunga in his wish granting power. The process is different it seems

and we don’t know HOW he was created, only that it was done by the namekians. In other words, with help. Just like how Kami didn’t do it alone
Who was it then??? Can you prove it was not shenron?
you can’t prove a negative, the burden of proof is on you that it WAS Shenlong.

at best, occams laser would make us infer that it was probably shenlong, but that is still an assumption based on the context of the story rather than the specific statement by Goku
 
it's consistent, Daimao is above roshi and shenron both of whom can create and destroy the moon respectively
Wrong as Roshi never comes close to that anywhere else in the series until super. Shenron uses magic hence why it does not translate into DC or Dura as King Piccolo literally gets tired from destroying a city and yet is able to kill him and in fact we never see Shenron destroy anything so that is bullshit.
funny that you consensus types are calling piccolo daimao an outlier, as you also on the other side of your mouth fine saying arceus is universe lv when he died to a meteor and got negged by rando pokemon
>taking the tv series as the only canon when that could easily be inconsistent with the lore that started with the games

Try harder. One series inconsistencies do not justify the others.
Lol real cute attempt at looking tough little guy, unfortunately all it does and show you as a whiny bitter man-child angry his fav characters are not seen as strong by others as he does. We never "ignore" 90% of feats even for series we do dislike, we simply don't peddle the bullshit ones that are not consistent and King Piccolo and Roshi being anywhere close to moon and planet level is not consistent with anything else no matter how hard you try to push it being otherwise. In fact why in the name of god would you bother using Boruto of all things for consistency when that piece of shit manga is the most inconsistent continuation of a previous one I have ever seen? Shit completely forgets it's own power set and rules all the damn time and made it's two main leads job hard in ways that defy it's own logic, just trying to powerscale that shit is a tiresome endeavor and you think using that of all things helps your argument? Get fucking real dude.

Also love how you ignore my other example of Goku going to the moon no problem. Should we now say Goku can breath in space even when that being the opposite became a literal plot point later on?
 
Last edited:
I didn’t say he wasn’t? I didn’t read the debate you two were having lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.