The Elder Scrolls vs Shin Megami Tensei vs Xenogears

[Flowering Knight]

Which vidya RPG comes out on top I wonder?

 

[seth]

probably elder scrolls.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

afaik it's ES>Xenogears>SMT

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Goddamn, I'm honestly conflicted but shit, I think SMT would take it followed by TES then Xenogears.

 

[Aurelian]

SMT is the strongest. Xenogears might give it some effort but TES is definitely dead last here as far as cosmology is concerned and bullshit nigh omnipotents and cosmic entities running amok.

 

[MotherFcker Ultimate]

isnt TES super busted

 

[seth]

isnt TES super busted

it is but you have to get through its complicated cosmology and lore

 

[Aurelian]

I think the fact that YHVH's weakest avatar that does creation and destruction on a multi-multiversal scale i.e. the main Kagutsuchi (I'm not a fan of using the term "megaveral" in general) is a pretty big indicator of how insane SMT's cosmology is; especially considering the Amala Universe which encompasses all of that includes another multiverse or sets of them without time that failed the Conception.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

SMT is the strongest. Xenogears might give it some effort but TES is definitely dead last here as far as cosmology is concerned and bullshit nigh omnipotents and cosmic entities running amok.

i thought TES had some Dark Tower style shit with the dreaming that the Numidium was part of where each level was infinitely greater than the last or some other nonsense
@Stocking Anarchy would know more though

and isnt Xenogears also supposed to be deep into the multi-multiversal/megaversal shit unless Keo and Jakk were just exaggerating which


has been known to happen lol

 

[Papa Nier]

isnt Xenogears also supposed to be deep into the multi-multiversal/megaversal shit unless Keo and Jakk were just exaggerating which


has been known to happen lol

It is, but it’s just that SMT is more busted than Xenogears.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

It is, but it’s just that SMT is more busted than Xenogears.

howso

 

[Aurelian]

i thought TES had some Dark Tower style shit with the dreaming that the Numidium was part of where each level was infinitely greater than the last or some other nonsense
@Stocking Anarchy would know more though

and isnt Xenogears also supposed to be deep into the multi-multiversal/megaversal shit unless Keo and Jakk were just exaggerating which


has been known to happen lol

Even with everything Keo posted (Jakk's claims are still suspicious given his history), nothing definitively put Xenogears/Xenosaga over SMT. As far as I'm aware with TES, its cosmology its more limited to timeline fuckery and dimensions being potential pocket universes for the Daedric princes.

I admit I'm not well versed on TES but I still feel confident of the three, its likely the weakest.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Even with everything Keo posted (Jakk's claims are still suspicious given his history), nothing definitively put Xenogears/Xenosaga over SMT. As far as I'm aware with TES, its cosmology its more limited to timeline fuckery and dimensions being potential pocket universes for the Daedric princes.

I admit I'm not well versed on TES but I still feel confident of the three, its likely the weakest.

i cant speak on Xenogears and given Jakk's history...yeah

But wrt TES I had made this thread in the past and there were a lot impressive feats posted for TES

The Numidium (Elder Scrolls) vs The Thirteen (Transformers)

battle of the broken ass robots Gauntlet style Epistemus Solomus The Last Autobot Micronus Prime Onyx Prime Alchemist Prime Solus The Fallen Logos Prime Liege Maximo Vector Prime Nexus Prime Prima (with Star Saber) If he beats them all he faces them all at once Battle takes place in...

www.fanverse.org

though he didn't post the quotes in that thread, but they might be in his respect thread on this site already idk


at face value the Aurbis alone sounded pretty similar to how the dark tower's cosmology works and we usually have that among the strongest series here, but I'm not an expert on TES just going off what I had seen in past threads

 

[Darksmash]

Xenogears/Xenosaga

They are different cosmologies btw

 

[Papa Nier]

howso

Let's compare Wave Existence and YHVH.

The Wave Existence, an incorporeal dimensional entity was able to power the Zohar Modifier for 10000 years by utilizing the energy of the 4th Dimension (they actually refer it to as this) containing infinite universes and timelines. Zohar Modifier is what people use as an energy source to use Ether. With a spill of its energy created the 4th Dimension. It can manipulate that energy in its own dimension via Wave Dimension that dwarfs the Path of Sephirot. Path of Sephirot is another dimension that the Wave Existence created too. The Path of Sephirot dwarfs the 4th Dimension and nearly destroyed all existence with its struggle against the Zohar Modifier. It can manipulate the fabric of time and space, channel its energy to anyone like Fei, and can manipulate or alter the probability to the point that even probabilities as low as 0 that are ultimately impossible can be bypassed by creating new realities.

YHVH a nigh-omnipotent god is able to constantly create, destroy and recreate billions of universes in a blink of an eye at once across the Amala Universe which his avatars control. Amala Universe is a mere testing ground of creation that his avatar empowers and administers. Conception occurs across countless amount of universes within the Amala Universe as does the existence of his weaker avatar, Kagakatuschi in the Vortex Universe or worlds even outside of that. Vortex worlds are countless in numbers compared to the billions of ones constantly being destroyed and created in the Amala Universe itself. YHVH is capable of inducing a death time-loop on his victim. Such as Aleph, that constantly reincarnates and then kills him, across the vast expanse of the Amala Universe for eternity. After every different death, he is then reincarnated to suffer again for committing the ultimate sin against YHVH.

 

[Qinglong]

Didn't V give another boost to SMT? I haven't gotten around to playing it though

 

[Vespa Crabro]

Gave a boost to lucifer and the Nahobinos introduced in the game, since you have to be strong enough to take the Throne and kill whoever's currently on it so you can take over as ruler.

V lucifer is strong enough to kill Ed Bighead and take his place on the Throne and each of the major Nahobinos pushing their Not!Reason was a solid contender for the Throne. Shiva is implied to be stronger since he just fucks off from the plot to start the Tandava, and Bino has some form of Parity to Hitoshura based off their performance in the King of Demons DLC

 

[Stocking Anarchy]

i thought TES had some Dark Tower style shit with the dreaming that the Numidium was part of where each level was infinitely greater than the last or some other nonsense
@Stocking Anarchy would know more though

and isnt Xenogears also supposed to be deep into the multi-multiversal/megaversal shit unless Keo and Jakk were just exaggerating which


has been known to happen lol

Yes it does.

Spoiler

To start, Clockwork City has many layers and "kind of" goes on endlessly, which represents wheels within wheels and worlds within worlds.


32:43

Gina Bruno: Somebody was asking if...if the Clockwork City is some sort of parallel universe and if it's endless.

Lawrence Schick: Kind of. Both those questions is kind of. In fact it's a deliberate parallel universe, in that it deliberately parallels Tamriel above. And...what was the second part?

Gina Bruno & Leamon Tuttle: Is it endless?

Lawrence Schick: Is it endless? You don't see nearly all of it from what you can see of it in the game. It has layers, and only Sotha Sil knows the full extent of those layers and what the functions of some of the other areas are...Samantha, could you please just lean back and look up at the sky for a moment there? Look up there, look at those whirling rings spinning around the world of the Clockwork City. That is the outside of the Clockwork City...or maybe not. That's just what you can see from the Brass Fortress, and you can see that Sotha Sil has taken the concept of wheels within wheels and worlds within worlds and has made it manifest right over your head. So you're constantly contemplating the fact that the world is a built thing and therefore it can be reverse engineered, reengineered and improved! Look, there's the proof right above your head! So yeah, it's profound as hell! Goddamn this stuff is deep!

There are infinite wheels, each going out infinitely to the Eye of Auri-El.

Michael Kirkbride's Posts | The Imperial Library

www.imperial-library.info

"Or the number could be more Lorkhanic nonsense; that is, convenient for Man.

"The Ysmir line is dead and so is His stranglehold on the mythic.

"A single Wheel? More like a Telescope that stretches all the way back to the Eye of the Anui-El, with Padomaics innumerable along its infinite walls.

"We're coming for you in every one of your quarters, Sons of Talos. None shall survive."

Online:Lilatha - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.uesp.net

Vestige: Could I meet him?
Lilatha: Someday, perhaps. The Psijic Order's isle of Artaeum is no longer here. It may return in time, but for now you'd probably have an easier time reaching Aetherius or realms beyond.The order values solitude, much like Sotha Sil.

In the Mundus, each of the major plane(t)s (save Nirn) are an entire plane of existence of infinite size and mass, and are perceived as spherical because the mortal mind cannot perceive the infinite.

Cosmology — The Imperial Library

How space works in the Elder Scrolls universe

www.imperial-library.info

What are planets?​

The planets are the gods and the planes of the gods, which is the same thing. That they appear as spherical heavenly bodies is a visual phenomena caused by mortal mental stress. Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. Planets are magical and impossible. The eight planets correspond to the Eight Divines. They are all present on the Dwarven Orrery, along with the mortal planet, Nirn.

What is Nirn?​

Nirn (Ehnofex for 'Arena') is a finite ball of matter and magic made from all of the god planets at the beginning of time, when Lorkhan tricked/convinced/forced the gods to create the mortal plane. Nirn is the mortal plane and the mortal planet, which is the same thing. Its creation upset the cosmic balance; now all souls (especially the Aedra-Daedra/Gods-Demons) have a vested interest in Nirn (especially its starry heart, Tamriel).

What are moons?​

Small planets, insofar as one infinite mass of infinite size can be smaller than another. Planets do have orbits, or at least lunar orbits are perceived to happen by mortals. Moons are regarded by various cultures as attendant spirits of their god planet, or minor gods, or foreign gods. The moons of Nirn are Masser and Secunda. Moons are not represented in the Dwarven Orrery.

Space acts like a planet in that it's infinite but surrounded by Aetherius.

What is space?​

Space is the interpretation of Oblivion, which is black and empty and surrounds the mortal plane. Space is infinite, but it acts just like a planet, in that Oblivion is 'surrounded' by Aetherius. You can see Aetherius by the stars.

What are stars?​

The stars are the bridges to Aetherius, the magic plane. They are perceived as holes on the inside surface of space. Because they are on the inside of a sphere, all stars are equidistant from Nirn. Larger stars, therefore, are not closer to the mortal plane, they are just larger tears in Oblivion. The largest tear in Oblivion is Magnus, the sun.

This is important to the Mages Guild questline in Oblivion, the main story of Elswyer Online as well as other quests in ESO.




One infinity surrounded by a bigger infinity is perceived as a sphere or bubble.

Vehk's Teaching — The Imperial Library

Vivec opines on the Dragon Break, Towers, PSJJJ, and other metaphysical matters

www.imperial-library.info

What created the Wheel?

Anu and Padhome, stasis and change, both vast realms sitting in the void, they created it. Not vast, infinite, as the void was infinite. Imagine an infinity enclosed by another; you come away with a bubble. Now watch as the two bubbles touch. Their intersection is a perfect circle of pattern and possibility that we shall call the Aurbis. The Aurbis is the foundation of the Wheel.

Apocrypha is infinite, with different laws to Mundus (as per the omniscient narrator).

Sithis is formless and as infinite as the Void.

Oblivion has infinite worlds and infinite variation.

Lyranth the Foolkiller answers your questions (Ranks and Hierarchy of the Daedra) — The Imperial Library

Shiver in awe, silly mortals! The dreaded Dremora Lyranth the Foolkiller generously agreed to talk about the ranks and hierarchy of the Daedra.

www.imperial-library.info

Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Though you are a lowly worm, I shall answer both your questions, in hopes that it will infuriate Eis Vuur Warden, so that he will seek you out 'in the flesh' to enact revenge for my blatant favoritism. (It is, after all, what I would do.) Regarding promotions and demotions: a rigid hierarchy such as we Dremora glory in defines the relationship between ranks, but does not dictate what rank an individual must fill. (Except, of course, when it does, but explaining further exceeds the scope of my willingness to answer.) In the service of a great and warlike Master, discorporation of individuals is frequent, but the hierarchy must persist! In such cases change of rank is necessary, that the web of command be maintained.
“Ah, the Xivilai. Are there any Daedra, in all the infinite worlds of Oblivion, more pompous and filled with unwarranted conceit than those impertinent and unruly louts? It is true that their combination of brute strength and low cunning makes them effective agents in certain rare situations, but for most purposes they are sadly unreliable. As you may be aware, our Master's personal guard, the Xivkyn, are the result of experiments with vestigial hybridization in the Vile Laboratory. At first blush they seem acceptable allies, but before we Dremora can fully trust them, we need to see an archaeon or two pass to give us some track record."

All possibilities are manifested in the planes of Oblivion.

Lyranth the Foolkiller says, “Your problem, mortal, is exemplified by your words, 'share a common origin in the planes of Oblivion.' There is nothing 'common' about, between, or across the planes of Oblivion—they are the very definition of change and variation, manifesting all possibilities, and validating all understanding and misunderstanding. You seek similarities where there are only differences, a classification of chaos. You think that, because you perceive a superficial resemblance between the outward appearance of the Nightmare Courser and the Hell Hound, that they must share a 'relationship.' Ever the mortal mind defends itself against the reality of what it cannot comprehend by the pathetic imposition of familiar patterns on entities of inconvenient hyperagonal morphology. Bah. Reflect on the fact that you have failed to understand a single word of my explanation, and burden me with no more such questions."

There are countless planes of Oblivion.

The Aurbis has been refered to as the Multiverse, including by the omniscient narrator.

Elder Scrolls Online: Introduction to the Lore of The Elder Scrolls Online — The Imperial Library

A contest to create the backstory for a character in Elder Scrolls Online

www.imperial-library.info

Unbeknownst to all but a few, Nirn has come unmoored from the fabric of the multiverse, as the mortal realm is drawn ever closer to Coldharbour, the twisted Oblivion realm of the Daedric Prince of domination and enslavement, Molag Bal. The Planemeld, a process in which the two worlds slowly become one, is threatening the existence of all races on Tamriel.

Nirn has alternate versions as well, as seen in the multiplayer for Shadowkey.

Shadowkey:Multiplayer - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.uesp.net

Your death in the shadow realm severs your bond with the magic that allows you to share worlds. You are back on your own."

Realms & planes are referred to as universes and self-contained realities.

Redguard:Dwarven Lore - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.uesp.net

?????? others believe that ????? ??????? ??? rune is itself a worm hole which regarded obliquely presents a doorway to a parallel universe.

Michael Kirkbride's Posts | The Imperial Library

www.imperial-library.info

If a hermaphroditic, bug-armored, bipolar god-king existing in multiple universes who has his very own bible with *actual* magic strewn throughout it is your idea of a cliche, then I really would like to live in your world. It sounds fun and new.

Blades:Atronite - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.uesp.net

A mysterious stone literally from another universe - the plane of Oblivion - Atronite is often left behind when an Atronach is defeated or dispelled. It is used in the tempering of high-end weapons and armor.

There are different kinds of realms, which include major planes, sub-realms and pocket realms.

Lord Fa-Nuit-Hen and Tutor Riparius answer your questions (The Maelstrom Arena - Part Two) — The Imperial Library

The recent discovery of the entrance to the Maelstrom Arena hidden in the Wrothgarian Mountains has brought Daedric Demiprince Fa-Nuit-Hen and his pocket

www.imperial-library.info

Tutor Riparius says, “Certainly, Lord Demiprince! The catch-all term 'pocket realm' may apply to any minor plane of Oblivion, whether linked to the major plane of a Daedric Prince or not, that is, whether incorporated, semi-autonomous, or autonomous. The Princes themselves are, almost by definition, quite distinct and different from each other, each with his or her own ideas of hierarchy and allegiance. So their methods of managing their realms, sub-realms, and pocket realms vary wildly. A major Oblivion plane is an expression of its Prince's very nature, so to say that each 'craves absolute control' of his or her sphere is inexact, as a desire for 'absolute control' is not central to every Prince's nature. To use the example you chose yourself, Sanguine's Myriad Realms of Revelry is a congeries of pocket and sub-realms, within which Sanguine grants his guests considerable latitude for personal customization, as each mini-realm can be refashioned to meet the needs and desires of its visitants. It is in Sanguine's nature to indulge the natures of others, particularly their darker desires—so to Sanguine, 'absolute control' is anathema."

Even different planes of Oblivion consist of different worlds, such as the Deadlands and Apocyrpha.

Aetherius is also composed of many different realms.

Online:Girnalin - The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (UESP)

en.uesp.net

Vestige: How do they twinkle and move across the sky, then?
Girnalin: Well, consider this. As Oblivion is a realm composed of realms, so, too, is Aetherius a bright sea with many realms within.
Each of these stars is a window into these realms, and as these realms move, so too do they move. Or close, like doors.
Vestige: What realms do you mean?
Girnalin: Now, that is an enormous question that I cannot answer. Many souls of mortals become spirits of another sort in that place—and that is all I can say with any certainty. As difficult as it is to travel to Oblivion, it is far more to go to Aetherius.

The vastness of the Mundus.

There's tons more, and this mainly relates to cosmology size alone. If SMT and Xenogears also have cosmologies like this then I don't really care. I'm just putting this out there.

 

[Atem]

TES has the Eternal Champion. GG.

 

[Papa Nier]

TES has the Eternal Champion. GG.