From FSN HF? 
This also looks vaguely worth a gigajoule or 2 for how far he tosses the thing in a frame
This also looks vaguely worth a gigajoule or 2 for how far he tosses the thing in a frame
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TYPE-Moon/Nasuverse Feats/General Thread
- Thread starter Xhominid The Apex
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Because I can't embed more than 5 media files per post?
More FSN HF?
That's honestly some sensory overload type bullshit to sift through though
More FSN HF?
That's honestly some sensory overload type bullshit to sift through though
And some more
Might be able to get something from here too by virtue of the fact he completed all the swings long before the shockwaves that form the trenches began to form
Bit feat, but fun
Might be able to get something from here too by virtue of the fact he completed all the swings long before the shockwaves that form the trenches began to form
Bit feat, but fun
How about the FSN UBW anime?
Think that about covers it?
As for the VN, ignoring properties of Grail Mud or Rin seeming to genuinely think Shirou should be somehow able to produce something half as effective as the Jewel Sword Zelretch used to punt the Image of the Moon? I think I only really have Excalibur vaporizing that lake in the UBW route, Rin's fight with Sakura + Angra Mainyu causing the cavern to collapse in HF, Hrunting on the Fuyuki Bridge in HA, and most of the finale from HA?
Think that about covers it?
As for the VN, ignoring properties of Grail Mud or Rin seeming to genuinely think Shirou should be somehow able to produce something half as effective as the Jewel Sword Zelretch used to punt the Image of the Moon? I think I only really have Excalibur vaporizing that lake in the UBW route, Rin's fight with Sakura + Angra Mainyu causing the cavern to collapse in HF, Hrunting on the Fuyuki Bridge in HA, and most of the finale from HA?
I mean, this was always part of the lore, but its hilarious that Shirou get his "I need to be a Hero" adrenaline going and he moves as fast as Herakles is swinging his sword for the kill.
Then you compare that to Nine Lives Blade Works later for an extra dose of funny.
In the span of time it take Herakles to move his arm about a tenth of a meter, Shirou's already completed 8 swings or about 10-11 meters of arm motion.
Is this trying to say FSN Berserker could use Nine Lives though? Thought that was exclusive to FGO in compensation for lacking God Hand? That's a certainly more acceptable explanation that the nebulous "skill" translation I remember seeing for this interview at any rate. If this is not the case, I'll still call bullshit just due to the sheer speed deficit that can't be made up without his own Nine Lives though.
Not necessarily that he can use Nine Lives, but if herks Instincts were working he'd know where to block and counter and reverse the situation. Kinda like "I've done it so much I know how to fight against it"
He probably retcon'd it because to be frank, it doesn't make sense for Berserker Heracles to not be able to use Nine Lives maybe outside of how badly Illya and the Einzberns locked him out with Madness Enhancement.
We also do know even then, Heracles still has his intelligence and the various adaptations actually show his skills when he shouldn't have them so I guess he probably could counter it if he's not in the state he's in at HF.
That literally doesn't make a difference when he's moving a centimeter for every meter Shirou does though
Its a ridiculous explanation barring the idea he can tap into Nine Lives to accelerate his own speed as well
As long as he can use the innate function of Nine Lives to increase his speed and power with every subsequent attack, the explanation functions
If he doesn't, it falls apart and I ignore it like I would other bullshit statements
Would still require the speed amplification that comes with Nine Lives. Each subsequent blow is stronger and faster than the last. That's basically how it works.
To be fair, it's not the first time Heracles has done bullshit things before because "willpower" so I can see him literally deny Nine Lives Blade Works if it's done against him in the right mindset.
There's a difference between generating the raw strength to overcome Enkidu or nominally matching Excalibur enough to not lose all his lives in a single shot.
In both cases Gilgamesh and Artoria Alter should have had their heads rolling if the speed was included with the will power boost
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Yes, and we're sure that he wouldn't be able to achieve similar results without NL why exactly ?
yeah it's about that time I give this thread the same treatment I did the NF one
I don't know about that last part to be frank(Considering Artoria Alter still has her Mana Burst on full blast even if she has it for Defense and Gilgamesh was stated to be either onpar or slightly weaker than the two) but again, while we do know technique NPs do boost your stats and allow you to do insane shit, it doesn't mean they cannot replicate it at all.
Again, it IS Heracles, like is there really any difference between what it does with those or temporarily stopping Laeventienn to being able to temporarily overclock and stopping and reversing Nine Lives Blade Works before he gets hurt?
Because the few times he will powered strength in excess or approaching some fraction of Excalibur its not accompanied by a speed that should have had either Gilgamesh or Saber's head rolling?
If Triple Link Crane Wings can end her career and about 1/10th of Bellerophon stunned her long enough for Shirou to stab her in the chest, I don't see why
I'm not saying he shouldn't be replicating it, just that in those instances he clearly didn't.
There shouldn't be a difference in the sense that he clearly increases his power, but that's all it tends to be outside Nine Lives. If the writing were consistent those circumstances would have been Herakles victory as Nasu is laying it out.
Weak
I'm just relaxing after I finished the semester, this is hardly some high stress debate/discussion dude
To be fair, Triple Link Crane Wings is a different beast than Nine Lives based on how it acts nor did Artoria Alter even know what it was.
I don't really know much about Bellerophon but again, I feel her getting stunned didn't mean that much past her getting stunned.
True but that's the answer Nasu gave so he would probably recognize that's his move and get insanely incensed or know how truly dangerous it is and deal with it accordingly.
True but again, we know that Blackened Heracles was blind, deaf and had no real control over his muscles compared to how he normally is and we also know he only really bothers when something can hurt him nor has he been in a NLBW situation before either.
Weak
To be fair, I think Vespa is just leaving due to who keeps looking into the convo and believes it will turn into a clusterfuck and I don't blame him(No I don't mean you Cross)
You're still talking about an attack that slices through armor that is able to endure a second of contact with Enuma Elish before beginning to break and mostly kept itself intact from the backlash of Excalibur. All of which are entirely composed of her mana, and not an insignificant amount of it given she dispelled it to give Excalibur a boost in power in the Fate route when she sliced through Gilgamesh point blank IIRC.
Being stunned means the magnitude of its power was still enough to reach her. Its not something she can just tank through and shrug off. Bellerophon was the second strongest NP in the 5th Grail War, the aid of 4 petals from Rho Aias was enough to eat up enough of a fraction of Excalibur Morgan's power for Bellerophon to win the contest and still have 10% of its power remaining/not off set.
My stance on Nasu's word is always take it at face value until I spot the contradiction, then I need to sort the contradiction out or disregard what he's saying. Guy's only human, keeping an entire world straight in your head is not a task I'd reasonably expect of anyone.
The circumstance with Enkidu alone should have been his highest priority overclock, and it definitely was.
Gilgamesh still dealt away with him regardless. Nine Lives is basically Angra Mainyu's skill in the hands of a Servant worth a shit in terms of how much faster it briefly makes the person using the power. GoB should not have gotten off before Gilgamesh lost his head. Even just talking a fraction of its function would have led to that outcome they weren't exactly far apart.
Can't imagine it'd be any more of one than Nasu shit ever becomes and I'm just taking a break from combing over Ufotable's shit. Without the animation materials for the films, this shit would be even more painful. Simple KE and scaling should not require I sift through that much detail in the background.
Aren't those Blades primarily deal with MR though? Kinda speaks more or less about how she couldn't really defend that well against them like that.
True but again, it's not really a point against her nor against Heracles like you are stating. Let's go with it destroying Grail Mud at it's strongest, that would be Large Planet+.
At bare minimum, that should be at Moon level if not higher depending on how far you stretch Large Planet so yeah, it would still hurt or stun her regardless.
Well of course but I feel that it depends on said contradictions and how far they line up with what he's saying and how the Servant could respond. We are only going by "Heracles should respond faster to other Servants if that's true" but not "What if Heracles is faced off with his own Nine Lives?" as the question should be.
Nasu is a contradictory fellow at points but I don't feel this is one of those times.
I mean yeah, it was and Gilgamesh only still got him because technically Heracles was on his 13th Life and was practically on fumes. And again, that only goes with IF Heracles can even use Nine Lives in that fashion and not if we are going with "He as a Berserker can use it... but not due to the absurd Madness Enhancements the Einzberns and Illya put him through" that seems to be the case between F/SN and F/GO.
True but we are giving you the answers that most likely Nasu would give. I mean Sieg in Apocrypha's LN was apparently stated to be superior to Siegfried but then the Anime states that no, Sieg is still weaker than Siegfried by a massive degree.
Siegfried in Apocrypha has a messed up Dragon Reactor when he's summoned... somehow but in every other appearance, not only does this never happen, but in the FGO Manga, he's spamming Balmung as if he is Sieg despite not having Galvanism because his Dragon Reactor.
Cu's Gae Bolg Strike comes off in being OP as shit due to the Causality Reversal and seems exclusive to him. In FGO, every High Tier Mage Servant can screw with Causality virtually casually and even some basic Mages in other material(though with more difficulty).
Like it happens alot if we are going that far and we tend to know that if someone does question Nasu on this or other writers want to do their own thing, Nasu will give an answer that just so happens to fit or he allows the writers to go hogwild which ends up causing this. Like I get what you mean but at this point:
Servants do Impossible shit and apparently, so does the Cast Members(I mean at this point, it's not even new anymore since Shiki Tohno or recently Ritsuka being a "normal human" and doing bullshit like supporting Mash against the Lion King's Rhongomyniad, taking Aphrodite's Authority and not dying or even being controlled or as we see in the Salem Manga, can take literal Eldritch Horror happening to them and still not losing their minds)
Nah, they increase the wielders ability to eat hits from both magic and physical attacks. If you're talking anti-magic attack, you'd need the real versions that EMIYA and Shirou don't have, though that was also a half joke answer that said those would have one shot the Great Horror in FZ.
I'm not saying its a point against her, I'm saying Herakles will powered up approaching a solid fraction of Excalibur in that context would take her head given Bellerophon left her stunned. He lacked the speed to do so, only just matching Artoria's swing instead.
I mean maybe? If I squint I can see it, but its hard to swallow given what he was able to do respective to Enkidu, something that when used on Herakles is more troublesome to deal with than Excalibur for the guy.
On fumes, sure
Still broke Enkidu, so that feels understated to write it off as he had nothing in the tank for offense. It doesn't need to be Nine Lives, Gilgamesh was in arms reach. A speed increase of several times would have been at least a mutual kill let alone whatever ever excessive bullshit Nine Lives functions as.
I mean, we can still straighten out what does and doesn't work. Just takes some thought and time. There's something in their to work with, just gotta trim the parts that are irreconcilable.
I'd call Cu's OP as shit because it not only ignores cause and effect, it gives regeneration a middle finger, is highly spammable with little cost to Cu to use it, and Cu Chulainn's a physical beast in universe so his stab is going to go through some shit.
An effect can't happen if the cause is impossible. Reversing the order does not make this less true.
Its kind of why I don't take his denouncements of the non-Servants seriously when their performances are beyond his own assessments *shrugs*
Either way, that's how he wants to do things and I can understand when he definitely contradicts himself or leads himself into that due to how old his shit actually is.
The only thing I will also say in Saber Alter's defense is that her Instinct still works and even in Rank B(Like Mordred), she has shown some sheer bullshit with it to the point it doesn't even make sense(She can literally learn to dance by looking at people and Instinct just tells her what to do) and Mordred's still show premonitions that even the KoTR heeded.
You can just say that to how she still intercepted his shit.
Like it's not that I'm conceding from this or not saying you have a point but it's pretty much Nasu at the end of the day(That or a massive longrunning series like these because they will always not stay straight)
The only thing I will also say in Saber Alter's defense is that her Instinct still works and even in Rank B(Like Mordred), she has shown some sheer bullshit with it to the point it doesn't even make sense(She can literally learn to dance by looking at people and Instinct just tells her what to do) and Mordred's still show premonitions that even the KoTR heeded.
You can just say that to how she still intercepted his shit.
Like it's not that I'm conceding from this or not saying you have a point but it's pretty much Nasu at the end of the day(That or a massive longrunning series like these because they will always not stay straight)