Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

OtherGalaxy said:

dio was never shown to chain timestops either

Click to expand...

The thing with Polnareff says otherwise, not to mention he never felt he needed to as he was not sure if Jotaro could move in time and was spending half the fight just trying to figure out if he could move or not due to his paranoia in underestimating the Joestars. Afterwords he was just testing himself and getting high off his newfound power from Joseph's blood.

OtherGalaxy said:

even at his peak Jotaro gets him by waiting his timestop out and freezing him there, he does it multiple times actually. Dio has a longer timestop length, presumably because he’s a Vampire (though this isn’t directly stated iirc), but the length he can stop time is the only solid difference. Diego with The World could also only stop time for 5 seconds, which implies it’s a human limit but again, that’s speculation afaik

Click to expand...

Yeah Jotaro tricked Dio who thought he was dead by time stopping just at the right time(pun lol) to make him think he was still in his own time stop only to reveal it was his. I don't see how that means Dio cannot chain his time stops.

OtherGalaxy said:

also the stand profile says the 5 seconds of time stop are roughly equivalent to “normal human time” so I’m not sure why the cooldown being stated to be seconds also wouldn’t be. But I already acknowledged twice that if it is more based on stand user pov then it wouldn’t be an issue. It just doesn’t change that there is still a cooldown in general.

Click to expand...

For Jotaro, we still have no sign it aligns with Dio who can do things that Normal Human Stand Users cannot.

18 guests on here

Masterblack06 said:

So then Jotaro stops first and then Dio covers for him. We know Dio can spam his time stop considering how he was fucking with Polnareff

Click to expand...

There’s still gonna be brief cooldown in between both of their usages, even if one covers the other

Dio stopped time every few seconds when Polnareff was stunned at what was happening and running up the staircase, so it fits the description just fine. That’s not a time stop chain

Ichigo beating even Team 1 when any of the Rave characters besides Sieghart casually solos Strawberry-Kun

NostalgiaFan said:

The thing with Polnareff says otherwise, not to mention he never felt he needed to as he was not sure if Jotaro could move in time and was spending half the fight just trying to figure out if he could move or not due to his paranoia in underestimating the Joestars. Afterwords he was just testing himself and getting high off his newfound power from Joseph's blood.

Click to expand...

uh the polnareff example is the exact opposite. Polnareff had time to get back up the stairs between each time stop. That’s not timestop chaining. The idea of there being no cooldown pretty much contradicts the entire point of his time stops getting longer and longer. He felt no need to keep time stopped even though he was rabidly paranoid about Jotaro being able to move at all doesn’t support itself. If he’s able to and he’s paranoid, he’s going to stop time as long as he can. We also can’t make arguments here based on things he never actually did.

NostalgiaFan said:

Yeah Jotaro tricked Dio who thought he was dead by time stopping just at the right time(pun lol) to make him think he was still in his own time stop only to reveal it was his. I don't see how that means Dio cannot chain his time stops.

Click to expand...

When Dio reaches 9 seconds, he specifically says “this is my current limit”, and then The World starts to fight Jotaro in standard time. If he had no cooldown that entire exchange right before the road roller wouldn’t have happened. He is not able to stop time again until he kicks Jotaro onto the highway through the sign on top of a building. Please show me a single example of Dio stopping time consecutively with zero cooldown at all. Every time he uses The World, there’s a gap before he uses it again. Even when he’s testing Jotaro in the city and just popping up on top of different things.

NostalgiaFan said:

For Jotaro, we still have no sign it aligns with Dio who can do things that Normal Human Stand Users cannot.

Click to expand...

The things Dio can do are stop time longer, and use a version of a Stand similar to Hermit Purple which was confirmed to be Jonathan’s body’s influence, so even that is not really anything implying his time stop had no limits.

King of time said:

Click to expand...

ima sound high as hell for this but I don’t really see what makes a lot of DC’s cosmics that impressive. Their cosmology has never looked as big as something like marvel’s or elric’s to me. I think Primus could take him

OtherGalaxy said:

uh the polnareff example is the exact opposite. Polnareff had time to get back up the stairs between each time stop. That’s not timestop chaining. The idea of there being no cooldown pretty much contradicts the entire point of his time stops getting longer and longer. He felt no need to keep time stopped even though he was rabidly paranoid about Jotaro being able to move at all doesn’t support itself. If he’s able to and he’s paranoid, he’s going to stop time as long as he can. We also can’t make arguments here based on things he never actually did.

When Dio reaches 9 seconds, he specifically says “this is my current limit”, and then The World starts to fight Jotaro in standard time. If he had no cooldown that entire exchange right before the road roller wouldn’t have happened. He is not able to stop time again until he kicks Jotaro onto the highway through the sign on top of a building. Please show me a single example of Dio stopping time consecutively with zero cooldown at all. Every time he uses The World, there’s a gap before he uses it again. Even when he’s testing Jotaro in the city and just popping up on top of different things.

The things Dio can do are stop time longer, and use a version of a Stand similar to Hermit Purple which was confirmed to be Jonathan’s body’s influence, so even that is not really anything implying his time stop had no limits.

Click to expand...

There’s also the fact Dio was screwing with Polnareff’s head and making him question his allegiance. That helped extend the time a bit

OtherGalaxy said:

uh the polnareff example is the exact opposite. Polnareff had time to get back up the stairs between each time stop. That’s not timestop chaining. The idea of there being no cooldown pretty much contradicts the entire point of his time stops getting longer and longer. He felt no need to keep time stopped even though he was rabidly paranoid about Jotaro being able to move at all doesn’t support itself. If he’s able to and he’s paranoid, he’s going to stop time as long as he can. We also can’t make arguments here based on things he never actually did.

Click to expand...

Fine I concede on the part of pre-Joseph's blood Dio having a limit and cool down due to not fully fusing with Jonathan's body.

OtherGalaxy said:

When Dio reaches 9 seconds, he specifically says “this is my current limit”, and then The World starts to fight Jotaro in standard time.

Click to expand...

This however is wrong.

Dio clearly strikes at Jotaro right as he says his time limit hits 9 which is why Jotaro cannot summon SP to defend himself. We know SP defends Jotaro even when he is not aware so why in the hell would he not defend him outside of time where Jotaro is fully aware of Dio?

OtherGalaxy said:

If he had no cooldown that entire exchange right before the road roller wouldn’t have happened. He is not able to stop time again until he kicks Jotaro onto the highway through the sign on top of a building.

Click to expand...

Time stop ended after The World punched Jotaro leading him to crash though the sign. After that while Jotaro is still flying in mid air is where Dio goes in for a Kick barrage while Jotaro tries to bring SP to defend himself and after gets kicked through the top of a building

As you can see the building does not look to have changed from the previous panel when Jotaro is shown crashing though it showing us how fast he is being sent through the air

and as he is still sliding on the bridge is where Dio says "And back to back" and says he will kill Jotaro with a final Time Stop, which even if you still buy the "Cool down" he is trying to chain his time stops as best as he can and the fact he is making such a declaration tells us he was just fucking around for the sake of showing off like he always does when he is winning.
Now before you go "they had a whole talking conversation" to try to say this just means they took a few seconds and therefore there was a cool down, it's a common manga/anime trope for shit like that to happen and seeing as how the action happened in mid air with Jotaro sent flying from The World's punches, which are FTL, and Dio himself is not only able to react in the same speeds, but also move as shown by him deflecting and moving out of the way of HG's projectiles on his own in short bursts, and was flying through the air helped by his own Stand, I doubt the whole exchange happened in couple of human seconds with how it all went down, especially when you look at how Jotaro did not fully land by the time Dio stopped time again to get the Road Roller.
This is the page right after and you can see the dust still moving indicating that Jotaro did not fully stopped his landing and Dio gave him no time to so the whole argument of this all happening in a "few human seconds" does not sit right with me.

OtherGalaxy said:

Please show me a single example of Dio stopping time consecutively with zero cooldown at all. Every time he uses The World, there’s a gap before he uses it again. Even when he’s testing Jotaro in the city and just popping up on top of different things.

Click to expand...

Maybe he does have a cool down, but from what I have seen it goes more for my argument that the "few seconds" for them is not the same as for us. Dio had already punched Jotaro so hard with The World that he was sent flying through the air straight through a sign and before he even had time to stop himself Dio had already caught up to him to deliver another barrage of kicks that further sent him flying through a building that was unchanged in the panel right after he was sent through it and before he even had time to fully land Dio stopped time again. If there is a "cool down" for Dio, it either is not the same as Jotaro's and it is so quick for him that it makes it irrelevant to use against him for a slow ass like Sukuna.

@OtherGalaxy
And outside of that, Dio can just either use Space Ripper Stinger Eyes which last I remember was calced around city level in the anime and even outside of that there is the issue that Stands like The World can Phase through things as we saw when he attacked HG outside of the car Dio was in so if Dio finds his barrage not doing anything he can just force his hand in and start messing with Yuji's organs, even Sukuna's unless there is some feat that shows him resisting something like that.

Astaro said:

Bloodlusted Goku VS Top Tiers Team - Battles - Comic Vine

Bloodlusted BoG SSG Goku VSWhite Oni (Toriko)Buusaga SSJ Vegito (No Timelimit) and BuuhanJin Mori and 666:Satan (Ragnarok Arc)Soul King Yhwach and EO

comicvine.gamespot.com

Goku literally fist bumps the team out of existence. Only one I don’t know for sure is GOH but based on what I’ve heard, their more a match for GT and Toriko

Click to expand...

Roger and Whitebeard

Masterblack06 said:

bro why do people keep thinking niggas from Monster Hunter can handle Rayquaza?

Click to expand...

cause its just a big dragon, duh!
if monster hunters can take down big black dragon then they can take out big green dragon

Flawless SB logic

NostalgiaFan said:

Fine I concede on the part of pre-Joseph's blood Dio having a limit and cool down due to not fully fusing with Jonathan's body.

This however is wrong.

Spoiler

Dio clearly strikes at Jotaro right as he says his time limit hits 9 which is why Jotaro cannot summon SP to defend himself. We know SP defends Jotaro even when he is not aware so why in the hell would he not defend him outside of time where Jotaro is fully aware of Dio?

Time stop ended after The World punched Jotaro leading him to crash though the sign. After that while Jotaro is still flying in mid air is where Dio goes in for a Kick barrage while Jotaro tries to bring SP to defend himself and after gets kicked through the top of a building

Click to expand...

I agree with this. I thought that was also my original take, but maybe I was unclear. My point was just that there's a clear time between the two time stops, and Dio acknowledges the limit of the first one (granted he used the last second to break Jotaro's bones)

NostalgiaFan said:

Spoiler

As you can see the building does not look to have changed from the previous panel when Jotaro is shown crashing though it showing us how fast he is being sent through the air

and as he is still sliding on the bridge is where Dio says "And back to back" and says he will kill Jotaro with a final Time Stop, which even if you still buy the "Cool down" he is trying to chain his time stops as best as he can and the fact he is making such a declaration tells us he was just fucking around for the sake of showing off like he always does when he is winning.

Spoiler

Now before you go "they had a whole talking conversation" to try to say this just means they took a few seconds and therefore there was a cool down, it's a common manga/anime trope for shit like that to happen and seeing as how the action happened in mid air with Jotaro sent flying from The World's punches, which are FTL, and Dio himself is not only able to react in the same speeds, but also move as shown by him deflecting and moving out of the way of HG's projectiles on his own in short bursts, and was flying through the air helped by his own Stand, I doubt the whole exchange happened in couple of human seconds with how it all went down, especially when you look at how Jotaro did not fully land by the time Dio stopped time again to get the Road Roller.

Spoiler

This is the page right after and you can see the dust still moving indicating that Jotaro did not fully stopped his landing and Dio gave him no time to so the whole argument of this all happening in a "few human seconds" does not sit right with me.

Maybe he does have a cool down, but from what I have seen it goes more for my argument that the "few seconds" for them is not the same as for us. Dio had already punched Jotaro so hard with The World that he was sent flying through the air straight through a sign and before he even had time to stop himself Dio had already caught up to him to deliver another barrage of kicks that further sent him flying through a building that was unchanged in the panel right after he was sent through it and before he even had time to fully land Dio stopped time again. If there is a "cool down" for Dio, it either is not the same as Jotaro's and it is so quick for him that it makes it irrelevant to use against him for a slow ass like Sukuna.

Click to expand...

In the interest of not dragging this out any more I think a lot of this confusion came from, and maybe I didn't say this so that's why, but I meant that manga Dio/Jotaro's physical feats don't stack up to JJK. In my original post I didn't think the cooldown would make much of a difference (JJK is snail speed even to early Part 2 characters). The anime has that bullshit ass cloud parting feat to go on, which afaik is calced above anything in JJK currently.

OtherGalaxy said:

I agree with this. I thought that was also my original take, but maybe I was unclear. My point was just that there's a clear time between the two time stops, and Dio acknowledges the limit of the first one (granted he used the last second to break Jotaro's bones)

In the interest of not dragging this out any more I think a lot of this confusion came from, and maybe I didn't say this so that's why, but I meant that manga Dio/Jotaro's physical feats don't stack up to JJK. In my original post I didn't think the cooldown would make much of a difference (JJK is snail speed even to early Part 2 characters). The anime has that bullshit ass cloud parting feat to go on, which afaik is calced above anything in JJK currently.

Click to expand...

There is still the phasing issue others besides me have talked about where Dio can just phase the World's punches through Sukuna's body and crush his organs. Unless there is something preventing that I don't see why Dio cannot try it after seeing his barrage attacks do nothing. Also did we not have a conversation where Time Stop barrages do indeed increase the damage Stands like SP can do as shown with the fight with Sheer Heart Attack? Just not as high as we thought years ago.

The Phasing is a bit inconsistent. Star Platinum is the only one who’s shown to do it by going through glass to take jewelry which fair for the World being the same.

But it also seems odd when you got the many other instances of Stands needing to break through something more consistently done in the series

They definitely can phase but I think people never bring it up in threads because of split durability arguments or something

The Sheer Heart attack exchange does indicate stopping time can make damage accumulate, but I don't know if anyone's ever been able to get a number for it. The reference thread where people agreed country level was ridiculous, IMO didn't also provide a convincing alternative