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Does order actually exist without those who enact it though?

Of course. One man's order is another man's chaos!

It is indeed the absence of order but when you try to apply it to the universe, one wonders if chaos actually applies. Due to our incomplete knowledge on the things around us can we truly rule out that there is not order in everything? Order is also often defined by transient beings such as ourselves in which case, does it actually exist or is it just something we define by whatever suits us at the moment? Is a storm chaos? Or is it nature's order? Or again, is order simply how we define it with our incomplete knowledge?

They feel almost cyclical. Chaos begets order, then that order when corrupted begets chaos. I suppose they technically coexist at all times with only one dominant at any given time, depending on what you're thinking about. In the universe, they sleep in the same bed. In nature, they do the same. In society? It cycles. The more I ponder, the more they seem inseparable. We've never seen perfect order or perfect chaos untouched by one another. The loss of one results in the other. In some utopia, maybe order could theoretically exist without chaos, and in an apocalypse that collapses order, chaos could exist freely, kind of like the Fallout world, though even that contains people trying to reclaim order. I wonder if there is a theoretical opposite to a utopia that contains no order? Dystopia often has extreme order enforced by a power imbalance. It's not purely chaotic. I guess our only real example is the universe? But we don't fully understand it. Maybe it's more...