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well thats the goal right? i think people have been trying to revise this particular part of the scaling chain for almost 10 years but it never quite gets there :skully

the wiki definition is that it includes all levels of infinity, but that basically doesn’t help you at all to actually determine where characters within that bracket would fall. Also nobody actually USED it like that we just simplified it to “more than one multiverse” which isn’t mathematically accurate in the multiversal bracket it’s simpler because you are going by 2-infinite amount of universes. Anyone can understand that. Megaversal is the big problem here. then it has omniversal as “beyond all levels of infinity” which is basically suggsverse lite or just claiming a character is omnipotent which has never been accepted.

didnt Hypertime kinda all-canon it anyways so all the previous things still exist in some form it just may not be applicable to what’s going on now depending and I know nobody wants to do it but at some point we gotta revise the tier list to be more mathematically sound. the megaversal and omniversal tiers make little to no sense currently, not that they really ever have

only remotely makes sense if youre considering a character that also exists simultaneously forward/backwards/beyond time etc. otherwise infinite is just…infinite//instnt

^fully agree with that on speed. I don’t even really see much of a difference between it and omnipresence as if you can move instantaneously with no time passing, you already have the capability of being everywhere at once. The only thing I would remotely consider “more impressive” is existing beyond time characters but it’s largely semantic as they still aren’t really moving “faster”

pretend i saw and paid attention to MB saying to drop it before i posted that btw

it isnt just this though, every time Chariot cuts the hanged man it moves its arm after HM has already started its movement people arguing Araki drew it wrong doesnt really make much sense when he consistently only draws Chariot attacking after Hanged Man moves i cant recall any other examples of Araki drawing something purely symbolic or whatever mid-fight off the top of my head I only remember The World in a flashback with its arms in Gears representing the mechanics of time the panel of Geil zipping around Pol and Kak is exactly what I meant earlier about perceiving the beam not being something Polnareff can do casually or repeatedly, and Geil does give a lot of freebies all throughout the arc because he’s a vindictive rapist asshole

so we agree on FTL+ reactions Nukesaku :tupac

personally i just see it that with extreme difficulty stand users can perceive stuff at those speeds, it’s why Pol only ever does it the one time. Going off the manga it very much looks like just after the truck crashes he is able to briefly follow the beam. Rohan is sort of the weird one but I forgot Vanilla Ice has a similar reaction feat too.

i dont have the panel on hand but if you reread the arc yeah there is a page where Pol is able to see the beam move himself and he even says “I just saw it happen”, it’s how he figures out the trick to it

tbh the calcs so far actually even line up with the narrative afaik. There hasn’t been one laser dodge feat that didn’t net relativistic numbers yet that I saw. So technically nobody is “faster” than him yet either in the story or via calcs. Rayleigj is the only character I remember ever intercepting Kizaru’s speed and I think that still didn’t break C or something distance and all that make it a bitch. It’s why Silver Chariot cutting a laser can be many many times lightspeed

it’s Yusuke not being able to catch up to a truck all over again lol while at the end of the same arc, and granted he got a power up but still, he’s crossing like entire countries’ worth of distances in panels

I will say I think arguing “from the narrative” is actually valid and one of the most important ways you evaluate potential outliers the issue is what SB specifically calls breaking the narrative, and what actually breaks/contradicts it are completely different things when they are arguing that JoJo characters can’t be ftl because it breaks the setting/narrative/etc they aren’t arguing it against anything that the author is actually stating in the story, they’re arguing it against their personal opinion on what should be realistic or consistent for that setting, and whether they are hypothetically right about this or not it’s a fallacious argument. FTL Stands doesn’t break anything because Araki has constantly reiterated and shown us that stands can move and punch and perceive things at this level. Bringing up “they should be able to run around the world then” not only doesn’t make much sense (fiction generally treats reaction speeds as higher than travel, jojo just has a bigger...

i do think consistency is an important way to determine what is and isn’t valid, but claiming something is inconsistent has become just another form of downplay by certain forums and is how you get slower than bullet speed Kars and wall level elden ring characters

funnily enough for as long running as it is, transformers mostly barely even has speed feats (relative to its scope as a franchise) it just happened to be that the few it does have are usually bullshit fast or outside of any ability to measure entirely :skully

yeah I mean there are many statements for example about the TF multiverse being finite, but I don’t use them because the infinity nonsense statements and explanations vastly outnumber them Elric can also be like this. Moorcock has called his multiverse infinite or “only” quasi-infinite on multiple separate contradictory occasions. Apparently to him they both coexist because he is using Zoroastrianism as one source of inspo, where both concepts coexist. I lost whatever point I was making in there but lol

it is a lot like marvel, dc, or any major production with many different authors yeah. The only thing that sets TF apart is the “everything is canon” stance which is where this can become a headache My approach is that I gather the most amount of consistent statements and put it together with what we know to reach a conclusion Because TF is known for being insanely inconsistent in general, so it’s extremely easy to lose track of what matters, and when it matters etc etc

tf authors actually contradict themselves a lot when asked about the exact same things which is why i brought it up bionicle is actually another good one that has tons of important WoG reveals but he also contradicts himself aaaaall the time so it’s difficult to know when and what to use

^just want to note the problematic alien x multiversal quote was actually walked back by DJW who seemed annoyed people kept thinking X was multiversal and straight up said it only affected one universe you can argue Clockwork’s feat but thats a separate issue complete unrelated to WoG some series also have things they only bother to explain with WoG like transformers, especially with the shroud. It was only explicitly cleared up in an obscure blog by an official author. The actual material only vaguely covered what he talked about Fromsoft games directed by Miyazaki also have this issue. Stuff like the way species work in Dark Souls isn’t elaborated in much if at all in game and only has canon info from old interviews. Less so with the weird dragon immortality but it’s still more spelled out in miyazaki’s interviews than anywhere else prior to dark souls 3

there’s series I can think of that do play it fairly straight but even then they elaborate on why their cosmology works that way and don’t expect you to just take it at face value