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Fiamma above Michael :tupac

Carissa above Aleister :giogio

The Sephiroth doesn't really "make" phases such as Heaven, Hell, Asgard, etc per se Human thought/observation shapes the already present formless energy into those realms but I agree that this is basically nitpicking

:mjpls

Shouldn't Flaming;Sword also be mentioned? Pretty sure traversing down the Sephirah in... 0 time(?) would be arguably faster than Gungnir. Nerfed MGs already have statements of destroying the "world" (and thus logically scale to Othinus), yet Flaming;Sword is portrayed as being impossible to react for anyone present.

The miracles in question:

In GT9? JVA did a lot. Countering Dragon King Touma's reality warping with his own, insane precog/simulation of the "world" that enables him to pull out basically anything like a Gate of Babylon on cosmic steroids, a passive defense that makes him non-existent, etc.

Actually fuck it I'll come back to this at a later date because I can't properly explain this I'll concede on this for now (you don't need to reply to this message)

Imposing a fated death upon Touma would directly conflict with Imagine Breaker if they did that. Othinus kills him through indirect means that don't interact with Imagine Breaker.

I said Touma is immune to sparks and sprays because of Imagine Breaker. I never said Touma can't die period. What are you confused about?

Changing how the world appears is not the same as altering the core rules of what the Pure World (and Imagine Breaker by proxy) considers "unnatural". They're two different things. Again, Othinus can't make her crossbow shots or Gungnir un-negatable to Imagine Breaker. Unlike Alice, who can outright ignore Imagine Breaker and impose a fated death on Touma, something he's explicitly exempt from in regards to Magic Gods (sparks and sprays).

Again, if you can post a quote that says Magic Gods affect the entire Sephiroth, which isn't contradicted by numerous other quotes and the very plot point that is them being unable to create a new "canvas", I will gladly concede on this point. Until then, my point still stands.

"the black labyrinth that used up all of it's possibilities" aka the phases Othinus created? no shit she destroyed those, that's irrelevant to what you're claiming

Reposting the same quote won't address my point: "Prove it's referring to the entire Sephiroth and not the surface world." I'll do you a solid: the quote doesn't exist.

muh Magic Gods can create another canvas

The black void/Black World is literally a phase Othinus creates, wtf are you talking about?

Misinterpreting what that quote means will do that to you. Othinus can't change what the Pure World considers natural or unnatural. Alice can.

Nope. We know what happens if you destroy the Pure World: the foundation of the cosmology has been removed and the entire thing comes tumbling down (tumbling down tumbling down). As is plainly obvious by existence still being around, she didn't destroy the Pure World. Simple as that.

Another strawman. I never said Othinus can't destroy phases. I said she didn't destroy any of the phases with the beings explicitly stronger than her. You are essentially arguing that a Dainsleif calamity destroying the "world" (which both the narration and Othinus herself corroborate) would destroy the phase where their actual full power self resides. Which is stupid as shit if you think about that for even a second.

Othinus destroying the Pure World (which you're claiming) is contradicted by the cosmology still existing afterwords. So cut this shit out.