order and chaos exist as an attempt of ours to try and classify the observable universe, as opposed to being tangible forces that exist naturally. they are vague enough to be applicable in any circumstance on both a micro and macro scale, and also vague enough for those applications to vary depending on what person/people they are originating from but in the case of viewing them as fundamentally as possible, their definitions are codependent as most people in this thread have already said, since they can't exist on a conceptual level without using the other as a reference point. personally i think the closest we get to observing a natural state of order are forces of nature but this also depends on the assumption that our understanding of these forces will continue to hold true in the future, or that our understanding of it up until this point in time is objective truth. while it's pretty unlikely that gravity will abruptly stop behaving the way it always has, there is no...
