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Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 3: Laugh Hard with a Vengence

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TBF The Culture is pretty broken from what I've heard, though it doesn't have any time travel in it.
Yep, at least when you are just talking about Sci-fi (soft), Culture are like a bridge that links Halo, WH40k (only demons and ship, no gods), ME, and other similar-tier verse with Major Top Player like Dr.Who, Sequence, Manifold. They mostly stomp anything below them but get beaten back and blue when fighting above. If someone was to ask me about Forerunner vs Culture, I would go with 'Culture Blitz'. Even common ships from the civilization fight in terms of Picosecond all over Lightyears and AU. High-tier like Sublime Artifact aka Excession fight in planks second and tear apart the entire universe easily, along with having Grid 'Infinite Energy'.
 

Nasuverse/Fate/Typemoon is absolutely impenetrable bullshit that's impossible to get into, a vast interconnected mess of shows, games, ect with no entry point at all for the common curious individual

Uh? Fate/Grand Order exists? Fate/Zero exists? Unlimited Blade Works and Heaven's Feel exists too. Like unless you really want to give a major fuck about the lore(and surprise, surprise, the Meta-Battle Dome Nasuverse topic here:)

You literally can just start with any show or game and be perfectly fine. Hell, you don't even need to play FGO itself, you can just watch playthroughs and streams and get everything you need there. There's a major reason why I consistently call FGO "Baby's First Nasu" as while it doesn't go into huge detail about certain things like other shows do, you can just watch that and get the best general understanding of the Nasuverse with the game.

Unless you're a highly motivated self study, gatcha-whale curious about the pretty pictures on the slot machine, or being inducted into it by friends evangelizing their new nerd cult, its impossible to enter

Same as the above, hell, Fate/Zero was the entry point for people for the series(for better or worse) until FGO happened. People who just want to enjoy Historical Figures with bullshit powers fight for a Holy Grail with absolutely insane humans is still right there. Or enjoy insane people doing other shit while barely grasping the concept of being human.

It's structured more like a mystery cult than a multimedia franchise

I have seen far worse series be a "Mystery Cult" than the Nasu Franchise... like the Harry Potter series. I don't see the Nasuverse fans having a cult when Hardcore Tsukihime fans hate Fate's entire existence for "overshadowing it", Fate fans just want to enjoy their shit in piece and everyone has their own opinion on how the lore is because no one understands it.
 
The best entry point was always and always will be Stay Night the VN.
This is coming from someone who didn't start that way.

You can start with other shit if you wish, but Stay Night best summarizes what Nasuland is about.

It merely looks like its impenetrable , but you really just have to take the plunge.

The problem with it is that the way its structured and the way its lore is broke up and presented across the whole franchise is absolutely terrible but at the same time, if you're the kind of person who likes going balls deep into lore, it can become quite addicting.
 
Didn't Nasu himself say Mahou Tsukai was the best entry point? Especially since its officially translated to English now.

That's because it's the literal first Novel Nasu ever did. Outside of learning Aoko's backstory and her feud with Touko(amongst other details of the Nasuverse being there but primarily more for Mages), it's not really the BEST starting point.

The best entry point was always and always will be Stay Night the VN.
This is coming from someone who didn't start that way.

You can start with other shit if you wish, but Stay Night best summarizes what Nasuland is about.

It merely looks like its impenetrable , but you really just have to take the plunge.

The problem with it is that the way its structured and the way its lore is broke up and presented across the whole franchise is absolutely terrible but at the same time, if you're the kind of person who likes going balls deep into lore, it can become quite addicting.

Yeah, I do agree Fate/Stay Night's VN is the best starting point(Just reading parts of the VN gave me alot more understanding of Shirou and how the Mage Doctrine actually works in the modern world).
And yeah, the biggest issue is that in order to get the clearest understanding of the entire lore... you basically need to read every series as Nasu likes to do that shit(or get other writers to do that shit).
But in a technical sense, we do have enough of that in our section that for people who want to get into the Nasuverse here, they don't NEED to look at the VN but it's still very recommended for context.
 
Mahoyo is damn good, but it's not the best entry point.

It's a little too self contained and it doesn't touch upon that many key points in the franchise .

That being said, i see no issue starting with it or with Tsuki Re , especially if you want pretty graphics to spice up your reading.
 

Naruto: 90% of the criticisms for Sasuke are either imaginary, speak of someone who didn't actually pay attention to the series, or fail to realize their "point" is the point of the fucking story in the first place. There's also a great chance criticisms that are true apply to other characters in either equal or greater amounts, but for some reason those characters never get half the amount of shit that Sasuke does.

Because Sasuke is the rival character, a fellow MC of the series and a consistent viewpoint of how the author wants to ultimately reconnect with his twin brother... you fucking clown.
That gives people extra onus to be all over him vs. the other smaller characters in the series and trust me, people didn't like how Kishimoto basically brushed over their sins too.

No, he wasn't an asshole from the start in P1. He was at worst non-social, and most of his "jerk" moments are in response to other characters being assholes.

I call so much bullshit on this! Sasuke was a jerk at many points in Early Part 1 when he didn't need to be(Especially when it came to Naruto and Sakura). The ONLY time he was ever justified was when Sakura shat on Naruto for being an orphan when she somehow didn't realize it also pertained to Sasuke.

No, his desire to kill Itachi isn't "unreasonable", it's a completely understandable response to severe emotional trauma the murder of literally your entire family.

That doesn't mean betraying his friends and village for it. That doesn't mean trying to kill your teammates in cold blood(MULTIPLE TIMES, might I add) or leaving your new teammates to die.

Yes, he did kill Orochimaru while he was bedridden, because he's a fucking ninja, taking advantage of the situation is the ninja thing to do.

Yes, AFTER he betrayed his friends and his village to get the power and skills from Orochimaru as is. I don't like how Orochimaru's story basically got fucked with but trust me, there's a reason that... *vomits* there's a trope called "Rewarded as a Traitor Deserves"(Yeah, I don't need to use TvTropes for it but it's sadly the best way to put it there) because Humans, Kings, Soldiers? THEY HATE TRAITORS, even ones that helped backed them because there's no proof they won't betray you either. It ultimately shows Sasuke has little loyalty to anyone which is not a good human trait to have.

Yes, he was losing it in the Five Kage Summit Arc, that was the fucking point you nitwit. Also, strange how people will use "He was traumatized and insane!" as an excuse for Gaara, but never for Sasuke when objectively speaking, Sasuke did far, far less damage than Gaara ever did.

That doesn't mean it's a good point, what the fuck are you talking about?! Sasuke didn't even fucking try to go after the Kage and only wanted Danzou, White Zetsu literally blows his entire plan to pieces AND tells A that he captured B and sent him on the warpath to Sasuke. Every other point at that was basically Sasuke becoming more and more retarded and not simply getting the fuck out of dodge and picking his battles, not the fact "his sanity was dropping" or anything like that.

Also, related to third Sasuke point: The same people who constantly complain about how the series stopped being about ninjas are probably the same people who bitch about when the characters do act like ninjas, eg; fight dirty, cheat, stack cards in their favor, take shortcuts.

Who the hell are these people exactly? I remember the exact opposite:
Everyone hated that Naruto lost the strategic route and just became Dragonball Z with Ninjas, no one has a problem at all with Ninjas being Ninjas, the fuck?
 
Bro how is this fair :mjlol
They can send in shock troops that are literal ghosts and can eat souls (pretty sure I remember this being mentioned once or twice in previous threads)


We shit on Ainz/Nazarick a bunch but they are way out of the league of the god damned Upper Moons to deal with.
Not ghost but horses (TBF I wouldn't be shocked to find out they have soul sucking ghost as well but the main soul suckers we know of in cannon are the horses)
 

To really put a bow on this thread, this dude is gifted not once, but twice in two different posts, each with over a hundred likes and what wisdom he pointed out?

"Overlord fans don't understand Ainz is a bad guy who does bad guy shit, is overpowered and isn't a deconstruction but just a basic power fantasy"
It's alsmost like the bitter pills thread was designed to be a thinly veiled "Bitch about stuff I don't like or even try to understand thread" Like at one point a guy just goes off when two people are discussing the whole magical lobotomy aspect of the transfer that's inherent to non human players and how it'd affect ainz friends perceptions of the world/his actions because he seemed to believe it was somehow an argument about ainz being a good person

 
It's alsmost like the bitter pills thread was designed to be a thinly veiled "Bitch about stuff I don't like or even try to understand thread" Like at one point a guy just goes off when two people are discussing the whole magical lobotomy aspect of the transfer that's inherent to non human players and how it'd affect ainz friends perceptions of the world/his actions because he seemed to believe it was being argued they were justified/good.

here

I've seen it and I'll be frank:
I don't like how it basically ruins any real chance of conflict from Momonga in a Inner Conflict fashion... but it IS a part of the story and it's not there as an excuse, it's just how it works.

But this is the same SB that has people outright say Simon is a monster for letting Nia die after her rape allegory and Naofumi is a monster for not making Raph his slave despite ignoring how absolutely turbofucked slaves are in his verse.
 

:LexLul:
 
whole magical lobotomy aspect
The magical lobotomy is bullshit. Satoru Suzuki is just as apathetic and uncaring as Ainz to anyone outside his immediate circle. He's the guy that would walk over orphan corpses and spend most of his time and money being terminally online.

You can't even say that the emotional suppression is actually affecting him meaningfully because we literally see his emotions in his head, he can still feel fear, disgust, embarrassment, hell we see him feel genuine anger at the deaths of the Sword Of Darkness and Shalltear's brainwashing.

And he becomes actual friends with Keno in the sidestory.

He just doesn't give a damn about everyone else.
 
The magical lobotomy is bullshit. Satoru Suzuki is just as apathetic and uncaring as Ainz to anyone outside his immediate circle. He's the guy that would walk over orphan corpses and spend most of his time and money being terminally online.

You can't even say that the emotional suppression is actually affecting him meaningfully because we literally see his emotions in his head, he can still feel fear, disgust, embarrassment, hell we see him feel genuine anger at the deaths of the Sword Of Darkness and Shalltear's brainwashing.

And he becomes actual friends with Keno in the sidestory.

He just doesn't give a damn about everyone else.
Uh no? First things first everyone stepped over street orphan corpses they were all over the place.

Second Ainz notes within the first book that he should feel something watching villagers be slaughtered that he should be disturbed by his new boney form. He moves on after concluding he's become undead in both a physical and mental capacity and we know this happens with other players such as the minotaur sage. We also suspect one of the thirteen heros was driven insane by his race.

From overlord volume 1 page 117
He should have been afraid after seeing what his body had become, but Momonga was unmoved. Indeed, it even felt natural to be that way.

from overlord volume 1 page 118: Right now, he possessed an undead body and mind, but there were some remnants of his humanity left. Therefore, even when he experienced emotions, if they surged to a peak, they would be immediately suppressed. If he continued on like this, he might end up losing all his emotions in the future. Of course, even if that happened, it would hardly be a big deal, because no matter how this world turned out or what happened to his body, his will was still his own

From overlord volume 1 page 144
If he could extract more information from it, perhaps he might have a reason to save them. But as things stood, there was no reason to save this village. He should abandon them.

Momonga was taken aback by how he could make such a heartless decision. A cruel slaughter was occurring before his eyes, but the only thing he could think of was the good of Nazarick. There was nothing like pity, anger, or worry, basic human emotions anyone should have. It felt like he was watching a TV show about animals and insects, where the strong ate the weak. Could it be that as one of the undead, he no longer considered himself part of humanity?

Overlord volume 1 page 240
Ainz had once been a human being, and now he was undead. From just now, he had sensed that Albedo hated humans very much. However, it did not upset him or make him feel depressed. Rather, he felt that such thoughts were quite suitable for the inhuman Guardian Overseer of the Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick



Yes ainz was apathetic before his lobotomy and in many ways it just amplified what was already there but his cruelty and natural monstrousness that keeno motes (Calling him a very cruel evil man despite being his best friend) in the side story weren't present until he had magical brain surgery.

From ovelord bonus volume page 236:
He had terrible taste in naming. He laughed at the strangest things. He treated the living badly. He made up incredible stories at the drop of a hat. He would gladly sacrifice the lives of others for himself — and for Keno. He was a very cruel person


How does him having emotions/connecting with keeno undermine the fact he got a magical lobotomy at the start of the series. He goes form considering himself human to seeing them as small ants/animals/pets. He notes he is no longer human and that what remnants of his humanity remain may fade with time. And he simply concludes it doesn't matter to him if they do


You can hate it if you like but it is 100% undisputable fact that on arriving in new world your become your avatar/race in a physical and mental capacity, with all that entails.
 
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The one time the Upper Moons actually have a fair matchup and you already have people siding with Overlord's wanked ass lol.
A space dwarf from Deep Rock Galactic solos. They can survive meteors :hestonpls
 
:ral
 

>they don't know about his bullshit passive luck

The gun backfires and shoots Contessa in the head :mjlol


Edit: holy fuck I forgot about the absolutely massive stat gap even without the supernatural luck :mjgrin
 
:ral

Since you brought it here as I wasn't planning on giving them any more spotlight for their absolutely terrible takes:

All this shows is a woeful ignorance toward both your own side and Demon Slayer. Kojiro was only able to fend of Herc due to Caster debuffing him, and even then would have easily lost if Illya had actually wanted Herc to go in for the kill.

Yeah except that was only based on making Heracles heavier, that's it. Kojirou was still able to fend him off despite that which is still an indictment of Kojirou's skill.

He is also only able to do as well as he does against each of the Servants because of the high ground from the temple steps, combined with the movement restrictions from the bounded field. In terms of actual combat against Berserker, he's even worse than Archer in that sense, since Archer took off multiple lives in an even fight while Kojiro even with the high ground, movement restrictions, and Caster support could only take off maybe one life at the cost of his own. F/SN Kojiro is vastly overrated.

...Wow, I haven't seen such a blatant display of misinformation in my life...
Archer was able to kill Heracles multiple times due to Unlimited Blade Works literally allowing him access to many different weapons, meanwhile Kojirou is only stuck to his one. A reminder to folks that Nasu did this INTENTIONALLY to show Heracles at his apex would literally win Grail Wars doing nothing:

Nasu: It's probably because Einzbern thinks the Berserker class is the best. When you take into consideration what happened during the previous Holy Grail War, it also makes sense that he might have wanted a pawn who wouldn't be burdened with the distraction of personal thoughts and feelings. I'd guess the selection was a result of Eizbern's notion that both Master and Servant are mere tools and nothing more. With Berserker's God Hand promising victory for 11 battles in old "Fate", and only six other Servants participating in the Holy Grail Wars, it seemed as if Berserker's Noble Phantasm all but guaranteed his victory. This theory was proven wrong in old "Fate" by Gil, who was able to counteract Berserker's God Hand with a Noble Phantasm that guaranteed Gil would survive. Due to the paradox created by a clash between an entity who "cannot lose" and an entity who is "certain to live", Berserker did not technically lose the fight but he did lose his life. When we were working on "stay night", we decided to change God Hand's effect to one that essentially casts a revive spell 11 times. Even with this change though, Berserker is still a pretty overpowered servant.
Takeuchi: That's why Rider was evading him. As with Saber, Rider had a way to kill Berserker for sure in Bellerophon, but she knew that Berserker would kill her as soon as she killed him. Because of this, simply killing Berserker once or twice would not be enough to ensure true victory for Rider.
Nasu: Though they existed at different times in history, Rider was also a Heroic Spirit rooted in Greek mythology, so she knew Berserker was Heracles. Due to this knowledge, one glance at Berserker was enough to tell Rider that she would not be able to defeat him, and she therefore decided to target his Master instead.
Takeuchi: Do the 11 stacks of God Hand recharge over time?
Nasu: Yes, since Illya's prana pool is absolutely ridiculous. If Berserker's Master was instead a mage of common power, they could spend their entire life generating prana and still fail to muster up enough to power even a single revive spell. For this reason, a less formidable master would mean Berserker would have to fight his way through the Holy Grail War with only 11 revivals. Of course, that's still plenty of lives by any standard. With a Master of Illya's caliber, though, Berserker is able to be revived 11 times in a single encounter. On top of that, once Berserker has been wounded by a specific attack, that same attack will not be effective a second time.
Takeuchi: What an annoying ability...

This also ignores that Nasu explicitly states unless EMIYA plays Archer(aka fighting seriously), he loses to Kojirou in a head on fight.

As for hurting Herc, all of that is God Hand. It doesn't take Broken Phantasm level firepower to harm him, only A-Rank attacks of any caliber. Ranks don't depend on firepower (they're essentially arbitrarily decided), and if Kokushibo's blade was A-Rank then he would have no issue killing Berserker at least once without dying in the process, due to being significantly faster than Berserker.

This is hilariously downplaying how his shit works but whatever... but him being significantly faster than Heracles? Bitch please lol.

Also, Kokushibo would trivially regen fast enough. His regeneration easily outpaces even Akaza's, who can regenerate entire limbs in the time it takes a supersonic Pillar to finish a single slash. LN scaling to Hansa and machine gun dodging is still far, far below Kokushibo, who can move multiple meters while holding back in the time it takes Marked Muichiro to move his blade a couple inches. Marked Muichiro can blitz Upper Moon 5, who is at least on par with Upper Moon 4's bodies that can casually bullet time even against point-blank range shotgun blasts. Once again, Kojiro has nothing that puts him above Marked Muichiro, much less Kokushibo.

1. Demons still need rest or they will have issues with their regen. Being stronger only allows you to go longer and longer without your shit slowing down.

2. ...What? Hansa is far, FAR below a Servant in speed and his Bullet blocking skills aren't even impressive in the same sense in comparison to every single Mage and any superhuman in the setting. Bullets never fucking mattered unless they are from Knight of Owner or a Servant having one. The fact that Starsight is ultra stacking a simple speed feat to such an extent shows how much of a joke they are and should be laughed out the room.
 
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