Are stormtroopers more accurate than we think?
As noted this is an extremely misleading statistic because it doesn't acknowledge suppressive fire that keeps enemies behind cover while friendlies move into a better fighting position, or withdraw, or to simply buy time to look around and make decisions. You don't need high precision for this...forums.spacebattles.com
this post smells like bullshit to me though
even in the Regiment when we had a competition of cadets vs the Governer's guards no one got anywhere near that accuracy from 1/3 the distance, sure they're not marines but even in non combat conditions infantry typically aren't sharpshooting close to this
in actual combat conditions it's gonna be worse
Like just the US military or all in general?This. I even tried to look through Google and I got absolutely nothing through those numbers, not even on Quora which even goes against it(Saying those who are good at shooting targets in an excellent fashion WILL drop hardcore in an actual firefight since they are being shot at).
Everyone basically reports that the US Military at it's best has a terrible accuracy rating per soldier which stacks hard.
Like just the US military or all in general?
Okay I get that. What it does tell me though is that the military prioritize training with shooting ranges in the wrong way when they should instead be training soldiers on how to fire in combat while remaining calm and be as accurate as possible while restricting ammo to prevent wasting it. Because if we at our best are that fucking bad than no wonder modern warfare is such a clusterfuck even compared to wars in the past when with all the factors involved, our soldiers wasting ammo in combat is a major one.Just the US Military was the best I went towards as SB loves wanking our Military the hardest... which should tell you how much harder the bottom falls when at our best... it's literally 20%-35% accuracy per soldier(and as Qinglong stated it's still not based on actual morale either which means it can get WORSE).
Meaning yes, every other nation's Military has even WORSE accuracy than we do per person and that's even before we also work with morale and other factors.
Okay I get that. What it does tell me though is that the military prioritize training with shooting ranges in the wrong way when they should instead be training soldiers on how to fire in combat while remaining calm and be as accurate as possible while restricting ammo to prevent wasting it. Because if we at our best are that fucking bad than no wonder modern warfare is such a clusterfuck even compared to wars in the past when with all the factors involved, our soldiers wasting ammo in combat is a major one.
Did he-Ash Ketchum vs Attack On Titan
Yes. I think the idea that Pokemon is something even remotely resembling actual peril is, like, the equivalent of a Family Guy skit. Mario is walking down New Donk Street when a Koopa comes out and stabs him and then he clutches his chest and bleeds out all over the floor while Bowser makes a...forums.spacebattles.com
Someone come get pt barnum and send him back to his Circus. Jesus christ
Yes.
I think the idea that Pokemon is something even remotely resembling actual peril is, like, the equivalent of a Family Guy skit. Mario is walking down New Donk Street when a Koopa comes out and stabs him and then he clutches his chest and bleeds out all over the floor while Bowser makes a long-winded exasperated rant about how he never tried this before. Mario goes to the hospital and is informed that he's suffering from septic shock and that he doesn't have the money because Luigi canceled their health insurance to buy more land in the Metaverse. Mario dies alone and his body is unceremoniously dumped into a river and eaten by wolves.
Pokemon is a power fantasy, and it's a power fantasy for kids. Plenty of kids want to be Ash and roleplay as him on the playground. It's a very safe show in this regard and whenever there's danger it's always danger presented in a way that's only kind of scary and it's kind of scary in the context of an 8-12 year old demographic.
It takes real skill to type so much but end up saying nothing in the endDid he-
Did he write an entire ESSAY on this shit?
"The things that happened repeatedly did not actually happen because it's secretly an episode of Family Guy."
That's what I mean they ignore the fact that shooting on a firing range is nothing like shooting in combat where shit is unpredictable and you almost never have a chance to stand still. They should instead only have firing ranges as a beginner test for getting acquainted with a gun and than spend the real training having you move and react to shit on the go by having your accuracy tested when running, preserving ammo and only shooting when you can hit a target or if you need to hold an enemy or group in one place which is what suppressing fire is for. Hell they should use paint ball courses to help or use harmless rubber bullets and have teams go against one another on the average to test the human target factor more so they can get used to how a real combat is more like. I think they do that nowadays but it seems to me they don't do it enough or ignore the unplanned factor where the previous strategy gets thrown out the window.The thing about that... is that most armies actually do that... the problem is that there's the human element that will always remain the biggest hurdle to cross.
This is irrelevant when the ones out in combat are, or at least should, be the ones who already accepted they are going to kill people and there is enough cases in modern times of soldiers mocking and even pissing on dead enemy soldiers to show they have zero issues dehumanizing the enemy. It's mostly the rookies who have issues before they get used to it and those are the ones that need better and more accurate training for what they will have to go through, or should not be in combat to begin with if they have no drive to kill.You'll have people crumble under the pressure because at the end of the day, they are still killing people even after every armies' best in trying to dehumanize combatants.
That's exactly what I mean, if they want to better prepare people for the real thing they should constantly have them tested with combat drills or surprise shoot outs with paint balls or rubber bullets and force them to repeatedly face combat situations they have no idea about until they face each other forcing them to react to unpredictable circumstances like they would in real life since the old saying goes "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy". Shit I remember reading Ender's game about that and it feels more relevant as I get older where they constantly had the MC's team forced to fight again and again even when they barely had sleep and no clue what was going on and yeah, it's a fictional book, but reading through actual history tells me that battles always never go to plan and the best way to deal with them is to be mentally prepared more than anything else.You'll have people break because there's a difference between training and the real thing.
Yes that is a constant fear and something no one can really be prepared for but other circumstances like battle plans going awry can be helped mitigated with constant fake fights that have shit go wrong forcing them to quickly adapt so they have a better chance in the real world if shit goes wrong.Some will break when they see their friends die(I'm pretty sure I overheard my brother saying he got traumatized due to seeing someone die near him)
Yeah and all I am saying is that because that is something that cannot be taken out of the equation it is better to at least do more to mentally prepare the guys who will go through that with drills that stimulate actual combat more than just firing at a range by having your accuracy tested in a more realistic situation.Some will just break over the sheer bullshit of it all and so on and so forth.
The reason that soldiers are, in all honestly, professional killers who need to throw away whatever humanity holds them back from killing an enemy when the real shit hits the fan? Stuff like that is why I think more mental training needs to be put in to better prepare guys for the real thing with them being questioned, tested, and put through the grind on if they have the balls to actually kill another human being or react better than the average person in the event of a plan gone wrong in stuff like an ambush. It's a good thing we do not have a draft where people are forced to join the military and people just join out of their own volition, but if people join who are just not up to the task and end up flipping their shit in the real thing than there needs to be more mental training and testing to help weed out the normal joes from the natural born killers. It doesn't have to be perfect for things to improve, it just needs to be taken more seriosuly, something I doubt out current military is capable of.You can easily say how they can fix something but you can't fix people... and you damn sure don't want the end result of trying to fix this problem to occur because most people don't want it for very, very obvious reasons.
Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality, with human element removed.That's what I mean they ignore the fact that shooting on a firing range is nothing like shooting in combat where shit is unpredictable and you almost never have a chance to stand still. They should instead only have firing ranges as a beginner test for getting acquainted with a gun and than spend the real training having you move and react to shit on the go by having your accuracy tested when running, preserving ammo and only shooting when you can hit a target or if you need to hold an enemy or group in one place which is what suppressing fire is for. Hell they should use paint ball courses to help or use harmless rubber bullets and have teams go against one another on the average to test the human target factor more so they can get used to how a real combat is more like. I think they do that nowadays but it seems to me they don't do it enough or ignore the unplanned factor where the previous strategy gets thrown out the window.
This is irrelevant when the ones out in combat are, or at least should, be the ones who already accepted they are going to kill people and there is enough cases in modern times of soldiers mocking and even pissing on dead enemy soldiers to show they have zero issues dehumanizing the enemy. It's mostly the rookies who have issues before they get used to it and those are the ones that need better and more accurate training for what they will have to go through, or should not be in combat to begin with if they have no drive to kill.
That's exactly what I mean, if they want to better prepare people for the real thing they should constantly have them tested with combat drills or surprise shoot outs with paint balls or rubber bullets and force them to repeatedly face combat situations they have no idea about until they face each other forcing them to react to unpredictable circumstances like they would in real life since the old saying goes "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy". Shit I remember reading Ender's game about that and it feels more relevant as I get older where they constantly had the MC's team forced to fight again and again even when they barely had sleep and no clue what was going on and yeah, it's a fictional book, but reading through actual history tells me that battles always never go to plan and the best way to deal with them is to be mentally prepared more than anything else.
Yes that is a constant fear and something no one can really be prepared for but other circumstances like battle plans going awry can be helped mitigated with constant fake fights that have shit go wrong forcing them to quickly adapt so they have a better chance in the real world if shit goes wrong.
Yeah and all I am saying is that because that is something that cannot be taken out of the equation it is better to at least do more to mentally prepare the guys who will go through that with drills that stimulate actual combat more than just firing at a range by having your accuracy tested in a more realistic situation.
The reason that soldiers are, in all honestly, professional killers who need to throw away whatever humanity holds them back from killing an enemy when the real shit hits the fan? Stuff like that is why I think more mental training needs to be put in to better prepare guys for the real thing with them being questioned, tested, and put through the grind on if they have the balls to actually kill another human being or react better than the average person in the event of a plan gone wrong in stuff like an ambush. It's a good thing we do not have a draft where people are forced to join the military and people just join out of their own volition, but if people join who are just not up to the task and end up flipping their shit in the real thing than there needs to be more mental training and testing to help weed out the normal joes from the natural born killers. It doesn't have to be perfect for things to improve, it just needs to be taken more seriosuly, something I doubt out current military is capable of.
Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality.
Your idea will only makes any conflict became more tragic and full of pointless death since all soldier will follow order without understand the morality behind it, just like His Excellency Treize Khushrenada says
Dude, i'm not suggesting that.I was actually going to say like either Imperial Japan or Al Queda if you want to go with that...
Like I understand what he's trying to say, you want to be a soldier you need to become hardened but people don't sign up to the Army or the Marines to kill people. Many do it to further their resumes and degrees and/or better living for their families.
They don't expect to be the literal jackboot of a country to basically kill anyone and everyone they see because "They do as they are told" and honestly, that comes dangerously close to "We're just following orders" which... yeah.
There's a reason why the Numberg Defense is not looked kindly on and there is even further laws in most 1st World Countries to avoid that.
Dude, i'm not suggesting that.
I'm saying that removing human element from battlefield, like NostalagiaFan says would be a terrible idea since removing human element (morality and the like) will only makes war become more tragic and full of pointless death
Hell, I even hates things like Drone since it reeks of Mobile Doll to me
Never said that, In fact I said it does not need to be perfect to improve and that dealing with the death of a comrade can never be truly prepared for which is why I mentioned more about battle plans going wrong and surprise attacks since combat and war in general is unpredictable and the best they could do is make soldiers more prepared for that by focusing more on firing accuracy in a situation closer to actual combat rather than firing ranges.I won't respond to all of that but I'm just saying at the end of the day, you are basically arguing "They can do better" and somehow thinking they can completely work around the Human Element when no... no they can't.
Well yeah of course that is impossible hence why I said the unpredictability of the human factor is for certain and why I said training should focus more on that than being perfect and everything going according to plan.Not without literally going full AI/Skynet bullshit and no Army nor people in the Army want to go that far for obvious reasons. And no, none of them have to do with Robot Uprisings.
Xho, what I mentioned is real shit that happened with our fully trained professional volunteer forces who are told to act civil and humane as possible and there are still cases of them having gallows humor at best, and outright desecrating the enemy corpses at worst. None of what I say is making them act like "Child Soldiers from the African Sahara or Gang Members from the Ghettos", it's the reality that no matter how much you train and preach to your professional killers they are what they are, killers, and if they are already willing to take a human life than you would be naive to think they will act human all the way when every single war has involved cases of soldiers throwing their humanity away. Discipline and fear of reprisal is what keeps men in line, morals are only about as good as the higher ups are willing to enforce it. I simply used an example, albeit an extreme one, of how the real killers in an army have no problem dehumanizing the enemy, it's the rookies and people who do not have the stomach to kill that struggle with that.EDIT: Like, you want professional soldiers to be heartless killing machines like say Child Soldiers from the African Sahara or Gang Members from the Ghettos who see people as less than their shoes...
Xho, most people in an army who actually fight in combat on more than one occasion don't give a shit about the Geneva convention, We have countless examples of Soldiers mocking and dehumanizing the enemy all the damn time in songs and jokes and in the most extreme cases we see them disrespecting the dead. They have more to fear from their commanding officers getting on their ass for getting out of line than caring about a rule set that is barely more than half a century old.I shouldn't have to tell you that no, we shouldn't degrade the enemy like that because yeah, those are all levels of Geneva Convention violations waiting to happen.
No, and it's shocking how badly you read that since I did the opposite by saying how human unpredictably is always going to be a factor and therefore it is better to train for the occasion of things going wrong than everything going to plan or making the perfect soldier.Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality, with human element removed.
Your "excellency" was a guy who favored letting his men suicide themselves to achieve victory so that is a pretty bad example to use, especially when I said how soldiers should be more ready for when a plan goes wrong and therefore have to follow new orders rather than force themselves to follow the plan.Your idea will only makes any conflict became more tragic and full of pointless death since all soldier will follow order without understand the morality behind it, just like His Excellency Treize Khushrenada says
You have no clue what the hell I am talking about and it shows. I stated that Soldiers in combat, which involves them killing people, need to be more trained being ready for the unpredictability of combat and focusing on shooting in an environment closer to how an actual battlefield would go which would include being more mentally willing to kill, but I also said they should focus more on shooting when necessary to preserve ammo and even stated things like suppressing fire, which involves not hitting an target but keeping him in one place under pressure, are needed.Dude, i'm not suggesting that.
I'm saying that removing human element from battlefield, like NostalagiaFan suggests would be a terrible idea since removing human element (morality and the like) will only makes war become more tragic and full of pointless death. And yeah, if an order is against their morality, they should stand against it
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