• We are currently rolling out incremental alterations to the forum. Don't freak! You aren't going crazy.

Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4: Outskirts Ningen Dome - Laughing edition

Status
Not open for further replies.

Qinglong

Martyrs are the first to Die
V.I.P. Member

this post smells like bullshit to me though

even in the Regiment when we had a competition of cadets vs the Governer's guards no one got anywhere near that accuracy from 1/3 the distance, sure they're not marines but even in non combat conditions infantry typically aren't sharpshooting close to this

in actual combat conditions it's gonna be worse
 

this post smells like bullshit to me though

even in the Regiment when we had a competition of cadets vs the Governer's guards no one got anywhere near that accuracy from 1/3 the distance, sure they're not marines but even in non combat conditions infantry typically aren't sharpshooting close to this

in actual combat conditions it's gonna be worse

This. I even tried to look through Google and I got absolutely nothing through those numbers, not even on Quora which even goes against it(Saying those who are good at shooting targets in an excellent fashion WILL drop hardcore in an actual firefight since they are being shot at).
Everyone basically reports that the US Military at it's best has a terrible accuracy rating per soldier which stacks hard.
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
This. I even tried to look through Google and I got absolutely nothing through those numbers, not even on Quora which even goes against it(Saying those who are good at shooting targets in an excellent fashion WILL drop hardcore in an actual firefight since they are being shot at).
Everyone basically reports that the US Military at it's best has a terrible accuracy rating per soldier which stacks hard.
Like just the US military or all in general?
 
Like just the US military or all in general?

Just the US Military was the best I went towards as SB loves wanking our Military the hardest... which should tell you how much harder the bottom falls when at our best... it's literally 20%-35% accuracy per soldier(and as Qinglong stated it's still not based on actual morale either which means it can get WORSE).
Meaning yes, every other nation's Military has even WORSE accuracy than we do per person and that's even before we also work with morale and other factors.
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Just the US Military was the best I went towards as SB loves wanking our Military the hardest... which should tell you how much harder the bottom falls when at our best... it's literally 20%-35% accuracy per soldier(and as Qinglong stated it's still not based on actual morale either which means it can get WORSE).
Meaning yes, every other nation's Military has even WORSE accuracy than we do per person and that's even before we also work with morale and other factors.
Okay I get that. What it does tell me though is that the military prioritize training with shooting ranges in the wrong way when they should instead be training soldiers on how to fire in combat while remaining calm and be as accurate as possible while restricting ammo to prevent wasting it. Because if we at our best are that fucking bad than no wonder modern warfare is such a clusterfuck even compared to wars in the past when with all the factors involved, our soldiers wasting ammo in combat is a major one.
 
Okay I get that. What it does tell me though is that the military prioritize training with shooting ranges in the wrong way when they should instead be training soldiers on how to fire in combat while remaining calm and be as accurate as possible while restricting ammo to prevent wasting it. Because if we at our best are that fucking bad than no wonder modern warfare is such a clusterfuck even compared to wars in the past when with all the factors involved, our soldiers wasting ammo in combat is a major one.

The thing about that... is that most armies actually do that... the problem is that there's the human element that will always remain the biggest hurdle to cross.
You'll have people crumble under the pressure because at the end of the day, they are still killing people even after every armies' best in trying to dehumanize combatants.
You'll have people break because there's a difference between training and the real thing.
Some will break when they see their friends die(I'm pretty sure I overheard my brother saying he got traumatized due to seeing someone die near him)
Some will just break over the sheer bullshit of it all and so on and so forth.
You can easily say how they can fix something but you can't fix people... and you damn sure don't want the end result of trying to fix this problem to occur because most people don't want it for very, very obvious reasons.
 

Masterblack06

Man of Atom
Moderator

Someone come get pt barnum and send him back to his Circus. Jesus christ
 

Masterblack06

Man of Atom
Moderator
>because it's a kid show no one can be mentally as strong
>comparing pokemon to family guy and then game of thrones.

Fuck off Xcano. The shit you say has to be some of the dumbest shit I've seen in a long.

Next he's gonna say that yugioh protagonists would also suffer from ptsd as well.

Fucking Clown tier shit
 

Stocking Anarchy

Marvelous
V.I.P. Member

Someone come get pt barnum and send him back to his Circus. Jesus christ
Did he-

Did he write an entire ESSAY on this shit?

"The things that happened repeatedly did not actually happen because it's secretly an episode of Family Guy."
 
Yes.

I think the idea that Pokemon is something even remotely resembling actual peril is, like, the equivalent of a Family Guy skit. Mario is walking down New Donk Street when a Koopa comes out and stabs him and then he clutches his chest and bleeds out all over the floor while Bowser makes a long-winded exasperated rant about how he never tried this before. Mario goes to the hospital and is informed that he's suffering from septic shock and that he doesn't have the money because Luigi canceled their health insurance to buy more land in the Metaverse. Mario dies alone and his body is unceremoniously dumped into a river and eaten by wolves.

Yeah, let's ignore the times in the Anime where Ash was killed or others like Pokemon Hunter J was killed or Pokemon legit died. Did we somehow just ignore Mewtwo's EXISTENCE as a counter to this?
Like no shit, what the fuck is this and has this dude played any Pokemon game after Gold and Silver?

Pokemon is a power fantasy, and it's a power fantasy for kids. Plenty of kids want to be Ash and roleplay as him on the playground. It's a very safe show in this regard and whenever there's danger it's always danger presented in a way that's only kind of scary and it's kind of scary in the context of an 8-12 year old demographic.

Yeah, Pokemon is just a power fantasy, ignore that you have to spirit away a vengeful ghost of Marowak that was killed by Team Rocket(Who even in the first game was stated to KILL POKEMON AND TRAINERS), Mewtwo's existence which all but stated the remains of the Manor was where it was experimented from, Team Rocket literally holding Silph Company hostage... and that's JUST in Red and Blue, let's not even get into the darker shit of Pokemon that the later games not only touch on, but explicitly show verbatim(Don't show this man Scarlet and Violet and Sun and Moon, he may lose his shit).

I don't even want to know if I want to touch the rest of that as it's literally just bitching and moaning and going "It's a Kid's Show, stop taking shit seriously" when alot of the serious shit in the Pokemon Anime comes from the games(To the point there's no real difference past how blatantly they show some of them off)
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
The thing about that... is that most armies actually do that... the problem is that there's the human element that will always remain the biggest hurdle to cross.
That's what I mean they ignore the fact that shooting on a firing range is nothing like shooting in combat where shit is unpredictable and you almost never have a chance to stand still. They should instead only have firing ranges as a beginner test for getting acquainted with a gun and than spend the real training having you move and react to shit on the go by having your accuracy tested when running, preserving ammo and only shooting when you can hit a target or if you need to hold an enemy or group in one place which is what suppressing fire is for. Hell they should use paint ball courses to help or use harmless rubber bullets and have teams go against one another on the average to test the human target factor more so they can get used to how a real combat is more like. I think they do that nowadays but it seems to me they don't do it enough or ignore the unplanned factor where the previous strategy gets thrown out the window.
You'll have people crumble under the pressure because at the end of the day, they are still killing people even after every armies' best in trying to dehumanize combatants.
This is irrelevant when the ones out in combat are, or at least should, be the ones who already accepted they are going to kill people and there is enough cases in modern times of soldiers mocking and even pissing on dead enemy soldiers to show they have zero issues dehumanizing the enemy. It's mostly the rookies who have issues before they get used to it and those are the ones that need better and more accurate training for what they will have to go through, or should not be in combat to begin with if they have no drive to kill.
You'll have people break because there's a difference between training and the real thing.
That's exactly what I mean, if they want to better prepare people for the real thing they should constantly have them tested with combat drills or surprise shoot outs with paint balls or rubber bullets and force them to repeatedly face combat situations they have no idea about until they face each other forcing them to react to unpredictable circumstances like they would in real life since the old saying goes "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy". Shit I remember reading Ender's game about that and it feels more relevant as I get older where they constantly had the MC's team forced to fight again and again even when they barely had sleep and no clue what was going on and yeah, it's a fictional book, but reading through actual history tells me that battles always never go to plan and the best way to deal with them is to be mentally prepared more than anything else.
Some will break when they see their friends die(I'm pretty sure I overheard my brother saying he got traumatized due to seeing someone die near him)
Yes that is a constant fear and something no one can really be prepared for but other circumstances like battle plans going awry can be helped mitigated with constant fake fights that have shit go wrong forcing them to quickly adapt so they have a better chance in the real world if shit goes wrong.
Some will just break over the sheer bullshit of it all and so on and so forth.
Yeah and all I am saying is that because that is something that cannot be taken out of the equation it is better to at least do more to mentally prepare the guys who will go through that with drills that stimulate actual combat more than just firing at a range by having your accuracy tested in a more realistic situation.
You can easily say how they can fix something but you can't fix people... and you damn sure don't want the end result of trying to fix this problem to occur because most people don't want it for very, very obvious reasons.
The reason that soldiers are, in all honestly, professional killers who need to throw away whatever humanity holds them back from killing an enemy when the real shit hits the fan? Stuff like that is why I think more mental training needs to be put in to better prepare guys for the real thing with them being questioned, tested, and put through the grind on if they have the balls to actually kill another human being or react better than the average person in the event of a plan gone wrong in stuff like an ambush. It's a good thing we do not have a draft where people are forced to join the military and people just join out of their own volition, but if people join who are just not up to the task and end up flipping their shit in the real thing than there needs to be more mental training and testing to help weed out the normal joes from the natural born killers. It doesn't have to be perfect for things to improve, it just needs to be taken more seriosuly, something I doubt out current military is capable of.
 
I won't respond to all of that but I'm just saying at the end of the day, you are basically arguing "They can do better" and somehow thinking they can completely work around the Human Element when no... no they can't.
Not without literally going full AI/Skynet bullshit and no Army nor people in the Army want to go that far for obvious reasons. And no, none of them have to do with Robot Uprisings.

EDIT: Like, you want professional soldiers to be heartless killing machines like say Child Soldiers from the African Sahara or Gang Members from the Ghettos who see people as less than their shoes...
I shouldn't have to tell you that no, we shouldn't degrade the enemy like that because yeah, those are all levels of Geneva Convention violations waiting to happen.
 

Proto234

Distinguished
That's what I mean they ignore the fact that shooting on a firing range is nothing like shooting in combat where shit is unpredictable and you almost never have a chance to stand still. They should instead only have firing ranges as a beginner test for getting acquainted with a gun and than spend the real training having you move and react to shit on the go by having your accuracy tested when running, preserving ammo and only shooting when you can hit a target or if you need to hold an enemy or group in one place which is what suppressing fire is for. Hell they should use paint ball courses to help or use harmless rubber bullets and have teams go against one another on the average to test the human target factor more so they can get used to how a real combat is more like. I think they do that nowadays but it seems to me they don't do it enough or ignore the unplanned factor where the previous strategy gets thrown out the window.

This is irrelevant when the ones out in combat are, or at least should, be the ones who already accepted they are going to kill people and there is enough cases in modern times of soldiers mocking and even pissing on dead enemy soldiers to show they have zero issues dehumanizing the enemy. It's mostly the rookies who have issues before they get used to it and those are the ones that need better and more accurate training for what they will have to go through, or should not be in combat to begin with if they have no drive to kill.

That's exactly what I mean, if they want to better prepare people for the real thing they should constantly have them tested with combat drills or surprise shoot outs with paint balls or rubber bullets and force them to repeatedly face combat situations they have no idea about until they face each other forcing them to react to unpredictable circumstances like they would in real life since the old saying goes "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy". Shit I remember reading Ender's game about that and it feels more relevant as I get older where they constantly had the MC's team forced to fight again and again even when they barely had sleep and no clue what was going on and yeah, it's a fictional book, but reading through actual history tells me that battles always never go to plan and the best way to deal with them is to be mentally prepared more than anything else.

Yes that is a constant fear and something no one can really be prepared for but other circumstances like battle plans going awry can be helped mitigated with constant fake fights that have shit go wrong forcing them to quickly adapt so they have a better chance in the real world if shit goes wrong.

Yeah and all I am saying is that because that is something that cannot be taken out of the equation it is better to at least do more to mentally prepare the guys who will go through that with drills that stimulate actual combat more than just firing at a range by having your accuracy tested in a more realistic situation.

The reason that soldiers are, in all honestly, professional killers who need to throw away whatever humanity holds them back from killing an enemy when the real shit hits the fan? Stuff like that is why I think more mental training needs to be put in to better prepare guys for the real thing with them being questioned, tested, and put through the grind on if they have the balls to actually kill another human being or react better than the average person in the event of a plan gone wrong in stuff like an ambush. It's a good thing we do not have a draft where people are forced to join the military and people just join out of their own volition, but if people join who are just not up to the task and end up flipping their shit in the real thing than there needs to be more mental training and testing to help weed out the normal joes from the natural born killers. It doesn't have to be perfect for things to improve, it just needs to be taken more seriosuly, something I doubt out current military is capable of.
Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality, with human element removed.
Your idea will only makes any conflict became more tragic and full of pointless death since all soldier will follow order without understand the morality behind it, just like His Excellency Treize Khushrenada says
 
Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality.
Your idea will only makes any conflict became more tragic and full of pointless death since all soldier will follow order without understand the morality behind it, just like His Excellency Treize Khushrenada says

I was actually going to say like either Imperial Japan or Al Queda if you want to go with that...
Like I understand what he's trying to say, you want to be a soldier you need to become hardened but people don't sign up to the Army or the Marines to kill people. Many do it to further their resumes and degrees and/or better living for their families.
They don't expect to be the literal jackboot of a country to basically kill anyone and everyone they see because "They do as they are told" and honestly, that comes dangerously close to "We're just following orders" which... yeah.
There's a reason why the Numberg Defense is not looked kindly on and there is even further laws in most 1st World Countries to avoid that.
 

Proto234

Distinguished
I was actually going to say like either Imperial Japan or Al Queda if you want to go with that...
Like I understand what he's trying to say, you want to be a soldier you need to become hardened but people don't sign up to the Army or the Marines to kill people. Many do it to further their resumes and degrees and/or better living for their families.
They don't expect to be the literal jackboot of a country to basically kill anyone and everyone they see because "They do as they are told" and honestly, that comes dangerously close to "We're just following orders" which... yeah.
There's a reason why the Numberg Defense is not looked kindly on and there is even further laws in most 1st World Countries to avoid that.
Dude, i'm not suggesting that.
I'm saying that removing human element from battlefield, like NostalagiaFan suggests would be a terrible idea since removing human element (morality and the like) will only makes war become more tragic and full of pointless death. And yeah, if an order is against their morality, they should stand against it

Hell, I even hates things like Drone since it reeks of Mobile Doll to me
 
Dude, i'm not suggesting that.
I'm saying that removing human element from battlefield, like NostalagiaFan says would be a terrible idea since removing human element (morality and the like) will only makes war become more tragic and full of pointless death

Hell, I even hates things like Drone since it reeks of Mobile Doll to me

I... didn't say you did. I was saying that about Nos's point since he wanted to effectively indoctrinate people into being killers because "that's what they signed up for" when most people want to defend their country which is completely different than "I want to kill people".

And by agreeing with Nos, you mean agreeing with me because I was the one talking about removing the Human Element would be dangerous as hell and would lead to... well "War being Routine" as Old Snake would say:


So yeah, I'm agreeing with you and further pointing out Nos's logic doesn't work.
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
I won't respond to all of that but I'm just saying at the end of the day, you are basically arguing "They can do better" and somehow thinking they can completely work around the Human Element when no... no they can't.
Never said that, In fact I said it does not need to be perfect to improve and that dealing with the death of a comrade can never be truly prepared for which is why I mentioned more about battle plans going wrong and surprise attacks since combat and war in general is unpredictable and the best they could do is make soldiers more prepared for that by focusing more on firing accuracy in a situation closer to actual combat rather than firing ranges.
Not without literally going full AI/Skynet bullshit and no Army nor people in the Army want to go that far for obvious reasons. And no, none of them have to do with Robot Uprisings.
Well yeah of course that is impossible hence why I said the unpredictability of the human factor is for certain and why I said training should focus more on that than being perfect and everything going according to plan.
EDIT: Like, you want professional soldiers to be heartless killing machines like say Child Soldiers from the African Sahara or Gang Members from the Ghettos who see people as less than their shoes...
Xho, what I mentioned is real shit that happened with our fully trained professional volunteer forces who are told to act civil and humane as possible and there are still cases of them having gallows humor at best, and outright desecrating the enemy corpses at worst. None of what I say is making them act like "Child Soldiers from the African Sahara or Gang Members from the Ghettos", it's the reality that no matter how much you train and preach to your professional killers they are what they are, killers, and if they are already willing to take a human life than you would be naive to think they will act human all the way when every single war has involved cases of soldiers throwing their humanity away. Discipline and fear of reprisal is what keeps men in line, morals are only about as good as the higher ups are willing to enforce it. I simply used an example, albeit an extreme one, of how the real killers in an army have no problem dehumanizing the enemy, it's the rookies and people who do not have the stomach to kill that struggle with that.
I shouldn't have to tell you that no, we shouldn't degrade the enemy like that because yeah, those are all levels of Geneva Convention violations waiting to happen.
Xho, most people in an army who actually fight in combat on more than one occasion don't give a shit about the Geneva convention, We have countless examples of Soldiers mocking and dehumanizing the enemy all the damn time in songs and jokes and in the most extreme cases we see them disrespecting the dead. They have more to fear from their commanding officers getting on their ass for getting out of line than caring about a rule set that is barely more than half a century old.
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Tldr, you basically wish that army should behave like Mobile Doll from Gundam Wing, following order to the letter regardless of morality, with human element removed.
No, and it's shocking how badly you read that since I did the opposite by saying how human unpredictably is always going to be a factor and therefore it is better to train for the occasion of things going wrong than everything going to plan or making the perfect soldier.
Your idea will only makes any conflict became more tragic and full of pointless death since all soldier will follow order without understand the morality behind it, just like His Excellency Treize Khushrenada says
Your "excellency" was a guy who favored letting his men suicide themselves to achieve victory so that is a pretty bad example to use, especially when I said how soldiers should be more ready for when a plan goes wrong and therefore have to follow new orders rather than force themselves to follow the plan.
 

NostalgiaFan

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
Dude, i'm not suggesting that.
I'm saying that removing human element from battlefield, like NostalagiaFan suggests would be a terrible idea since removing human element (morality and the like) will only makes war become more tragic and full of pointless death. And yeah, if an order is against their morality, they should stand against it
You have no clue what the hell I am talking about and it shows. I stated that Soldiers in combat, which involves them killing people, need to be more trained being ready for the unpredictability of combat and focusing on shooting in an environment closer to how an actual battlefield would go which would include being more mentally willing to kill, but I also said they should focus more on shooting when necessary to preserve ammo and even stated things like suppressing fire, which involves not hitting an target but keeping him in one place under pressure, are needed.

You are acting like I am saying soldiers need to just go around and shoot women and children on the go when I just said in an actual combat scenario that we need to train our guys to be better at shooting something more akin to a real fight and be mentally willing to kill while holding themselves from pissing and shitting themselves as much.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top