Circus of Humorous & Humiliating Arguments Part 4 Part 2: Electric Boogaloo

[Xhominid The Apex]

At this point, I have no idea why this argument is going on at all past semantics.
Rule 13 exists for a reason, just because Spacebattles makes it their bitch doesn't mean we do so. The Phantom Thieves keep their powers regardless of the where or how just like we can't pretend Servants can't destroy a Planet because of how Nasuverse Earth is set up means they would be screwed in destroying any other random ass Planet in a different series.

 

[Salfarc]

You get arrested on purpose in order to get to Sae. Literally nothing about that scene can take place without the P5 crew deliberately setting it up. And the scenario is you recounting to Igor how you got there.....except Igor is a fucking reality warping evil god who is trying to gaslight you to death.

The Bad Ending literally cannot happen outside that scenario.

Yes we get arrested on purpose and it happens at the casino. There is a reason there is a cutscene specifically for that, even if you do everything for good ending. Both Bad Ending and Good Ending comes from that.

No one is saying Metaverse can't enter real world, I am saying Metaverse isn't a real world. That's 2 different thing.

This are all canonical facts we talked:

• Metaverse is a mental scape
• Persona 1~3 happens in real world
• Persona 4 happens in another world
• Persona 5 Persona happens in Metaverse and not real life. (Tactica seems to be different place though not Metaverse)
• Akechi shoot Joker in bad ending, and Joker dies
• The twist in good ending is that, Akechi shoot the cognitive Joker so he didn't die in good ending, this means the one at bad ending happens in real life
• Joker took gun shot from Akechi and die in bad ending but didn't die from multiple energy explosives in Metaverse
• We get arrested on purpose
• They arrest us after Sae's palace, at the casino
• The casino disappear right at the end of our arrest
• We get interrogated by Sae
• Metaverse has fused with real world several times but they disappear in the end.

All this points combined together, concludes one thing. There is several shift over real world and metaverse, and sometimes they fused. The only time in which they can use their Persona is when metaverse is involved. At the end, metaverse is gone. Their power is gone, Joker dies from a gunshot, that is the reason you get "you lost your life".

If you guys still don't want to accept canon after this, you do you.

Also also why are we assuming the Phantom Thieves specifically are deprived of their powers when the scenario that kicked this all off is them against fucking Overlord, a video game verse.

Because in the world of that video game, it is real.

Metaverse isn't.

At this point, I have no idea why this argument is going on at all past semantics.
Rule 13 exists for a reason, just because Spacebattles makes it their bitch doesn't mean we do so. The Phantom Thieves keep their powers regardless of the where or how just like we can't pretend Servants can't destroy a Planet because of how Nasuverse Earth is set up means they would be screwed in destroying any other random ass Planet in a different series.

The reason we have this argument is because P5 thieves can't use their power in real life and Metaverse is gone...Putting them vs Overlord chars just means we put normal human vs Nazarick chars. And you guys seems to want to believe otherwise. Also you are the first to argue about this to me.

I rest my case.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

My dude, you are arguing the most semantics based argument in the universe and STILL missed Cross's point by a metric fuckton~

The point of the Bad Ending is that it literally does not happen due to the sheer nature of how those Bad Endings occur(They literally cannot occur), this is why the ACTUAL Bad Endings is just accepting Yaldabaoth's offer and in Royal, accepting Maruki's.

This is made more hilarious because when Joker "dies", he's somehow still in The Velvet Room to be made a prisoner for all eternity... which shouldn't be the case if he's DEAD FOR REAL! Anyone who has played the Persona Franchise should know this hell, that's the entire point of Persona 3! If death was that much of a slap on the wrist, Makoto wouldn't be permanently locked into being a barrier for Nyx and Erebus!

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Yes we get arrested on purpose and it happens at the casino. There is a reason there is a cutscene specifically for that, even if you do everything for good ending. Both Bad Ending and Good Ending comes from that.

No one is saying Metaverse can't enter real world, I am saying Metaverse isn't a real world. That's 2 different thing.

This are all canonical facts we talked:

• Metaverse is a mental scape
• Persona 1~3 happens in real world
• Persona 4 happens in another world

The Persona 4 crew literally meet and fight with the Persona 3 crew in one of the spin-offs. And the P4 crew also meets and fights with the P5 crew. The games are equivalent.

• Persona 5 Persona happens in Metaverse and not real life. (Tactica seems to be different place though not Metaverse)

The Metaverse is an alternate reality that can seep into and affect reality if not restrained, and again the spin-offs repeatedly have the P5 crew demonstrate abilities equivalent to the P3 and P4 crew.

• Akechi shoot Joker in bad ending, and Joker dies

No. The Bad Ending doesnt actually happen, because again the scenario can only possibly take place if Joker gets caught on purpose in a specific way to let the IRL police take him to Sae

• The twist in good ending is that, Akechi shoot the cognitive Joker so he didn't die in good ending, this means the one at bad ending happens in real life

No, it means the evil reality warper Joker is recounting this to successfully gaslit him into killing himself via the same method he uses to erase you from reality later on.

• Joker took gun shot from Akechi and die in bad ending but didn't die from multiple energy explosives in Metaverse

See above

• We get arrested on purpose
• They arrest us after Sae's palace, at the casino
• The casino disappear right at the end of our arrest

And this ruins your scenario since the Bad Ending cant happen because of this. Unless the evil reality warper you are telling the story to makes it happen

• We get interrogated by Sae
• Metaverse has fused with real world several times but they disappear in the end.

No. The Metaverse is just the collected consciousness of humanity that got warped into the Metaverse by Yabbladoth because he's a dick. It doesn't disappear afterwords, it goes back to normal and the P5 crew demonstrate their powers several times after that in the spin-offs, including alongside the P4 crew.

All this points combined together, concludes one thing. There is several shift over real world and metaverse, and sometimes they fused. The only time in which they can use their Persona is when metaverse is involved. At the end, metaverse is gone. Their power is gone, Joker dies from a gunshot, that is the reason you get "you lost your life".

See above for all points. It's almost like the actively malicious reality warper you were telling this story to was trying to get you to die to Akechi to "prove" his point.

If you guys still don't want to accept canon after this, you do you.

This requires you to ignore the context and lore that surround the fifth game in a series of spin-offs of another game series.

Also you're still ignoring Morganna, the Shadow who now permanently resides in the human world as a cat able to speak as a human being.

Because in the world of that video game, it is real.

Metaverse isn't.

I rest my case.

As has been repeatedly explained to you, it is.

And assuming that in some neutral battleground the Thieves show up as humans while Ainz and his goons show up as monsters is clearly missing the scenario the OP of the thread wanted.

This is like making a Digimon thread and then claiming they lose because they're computer data and thus can't affect reality when it's repeatedly shown across different series that they can.

 

[Adamant soul]

Wait is the argument here seriously someone unironically going "insert characters here" don't have powers outside "insert specific world/conditions" here ergo they lose to "insert unresticted opposition" here?

It should go without saying in cases like that, we always treat those characters as if they have their powers regardless of the location, otherwise there's no point in using them at all.

 

[Adamant soul]

Who has stronger/more reiatsu: Yamamoto or Kenpachi

In Bankai. We know Yamamoto has atleast 2x the reiatsu of a captain and that's for base/shikai Yamamoto most likely. Bankai Yamamoto's reiatsu was so strong that it became visible (only Yamamoto achieved this feat). Kenpachi is hyped for his raw strength and AP and unlike Yamamoto he isn't...

www.fanverse.org

R1 Ulquiorra vs Post Timeskip Ressurreccion Grimmjow

Debate over whether cfyow is canon or not. Thx

www.fanverse.org

WOW! I'll take stupid questions that should be obvious to anyone with a brain, but which apparently are 50/50 to these idiots for 500.

At least post-skip Grimmjow is pulling ahead on that poll but we really need Ichigo and Grimmjow to actually fight in Cour 3 so these idiots realize how fucking stupid they're being here, especially on that front.

 

[Salfarc]

Thinking about it, if we are talking about gaslight, you guys are being gaslit that their power is real...When multiple proves they are not. Like legit at that point you might as well say a character can beat another character simply by imagining it despite not having power to make imagination comes true. Oh well, I already rest my case.

 

[Papa Nier]

Based on your reasoning, many fictional characters wouldn't possess their abilities outside of their respective series. For instance, Haseo from Dot Hack or Kirito from SAO wouldn't have their PC body. Amrita is exclusive to Ni-Oh and doesn't exist beyond that universe. Moreover, many fictional worlds have their own specific rules regarding the use of powers such as Force, Ki, Nen, Haki, Chakra, Magic, etc. Therefore, characters from those series wouldn't have access to these powers outside of their respective universes. For example, the characters from FFVII wouldn't be able to cast Magic with their Materia without the Lifestream or The Void.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Thinking about it, if we are talking about gaslight, you guys are being gaslit that their power is real...When multiple proves they are not. Like legit at that point you might as well say a character can beat another character simply by imagining it despite not having power to make imagination comes true. Oh well, I already rest my case.

Dude, I'm going to say this for one last time and leave it:

1. If we go by your logic for the Metaverse being the reason why they cannot compete against Overlord, then vice versa should be the case for Overlord as their abilities wouldn't work outside of their franchise, let alone work against the Phantom Thieves. No franchise works the same way differently and many motherfuckers would be powerless or weak as shit if we put them in a different series. That's the entire impetus of why we do not include that shit in VS. debates.

2. The Metaverse explicitly exists still even after Persona 5 and can potentially go well past Japan depending on it's influence and can bleed into Reality itself which is not only the entire point of Yaldaobath's plan, but also the entire deal Maruki and EMMA was doing the same shit. We even see that you can blend them both together seamlessly when it came to faking Joker's death from someone whose been in the Metaverse for years.
So it makes the idea that The Phantom Thieves are somehow powerless outside of it being "gone" is as dumb as believing SEES and the Investigation Team are under the same conditions despite we literally have crossovers where neither are anywhere near as hampered being in different realms respectively(The Shadow/TV Land for all 3 series). This is even dumber when Persona 3, 4 and 5 all exist within the same Universe...

3. That rebuttal of yours makes even less sense because what is literally the purpose of VS. debates then? What makes how Spacebattles do it anymore incorrectly than VSB by that logic? In an attempt to try and come off like you are being intelligent, you are missing that the core point of VS. debates is just a fucking hobby...

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Thinking about it, if we are talking about gaslight, you guys are being gaslit that their power is real...When multiple proves they are not. Like legit at that point you might as well say a character can beat another character simply by imagining it despite not having power to make imagination comes true. Oh well, I already rest my case.

It's already been explained to you multiple times that the Thieves demonstrate their powers multiple times outside the Metaverse, that circumstances of the Bad Ending are controlled by the blatantly malicious reality warper in front of you at the time, and that the Persona and SMT series do not work the way you are describing.

Still waiting for you to try to explain away the cat born from a Shadow who can talk like a human, btw

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Going into something else as I'm so tired of the Persona 5 stuff:

If Fuga was used after Sukuna first DE. Would gojo have tanked it

Would he have tanked it If it was used after Sukuna first DE

www.fanverse.org

Ch259 Fuga wasn't even close to full power.

Thanks to yuji's black flashes , sukuna's output dropped again after getting close to it's peak , he can't use RCT until the current moment so it was clear that his output was still infirm even during malevolent shrine. Fuga's output was powerless , the Aoe was large thanks to the gunpowder...

www.fanverse.org

Sukuna bros are losing their shit because Fuga is nowhere near the gamebreaking powerhouse they believe it is.


Even the Jujutsufolk are pretty much tearing Fuga to shreds when someone dared to state it is superior to any known nuke:

 

[Papa Nier]

https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/nazarick-run-adventuring-party-gauntlet.1162248/

the setup is crazy

No one on that list is losing. Meanwhile Sora

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Based on your reasoning, many fictional characters wouldn't possess their abilities outside of their respective series. For instance, Haseo from Dot Hack or Kirito from SAO wouldn't have their PC body. Amrita is exclusive to Ni-Oh and doesn't exist beyond that universe. Moreover, many fictional worlds have their own specific rules regarding the use of powers such as Force, Ki, Nen, Haki, Chakra, Magic, etc. Therefore, characters from those series wouldn't have access to these powers outside of their respective universes. For example, the characters from FFVII wouldn't be able to cast Magic with their Materia without the Lifestream or The Void.

what do you mean, Kirito is sub-new york rat level

Kirito (SAO) vs 1 New York Rat

The rat is accidentally released into the black swordsman's home while he is in the game. Unless he escapes it will chew through his game helmet wiring and it will kill him as said in the show. Can Kirito escape the game before the rat finds its way into his neet cave. Both are bloodlusted...

www.fanverse.org

 

[Randomdude]

No one on that list is losing. Meanwhile Sora

Is genshin impact really that crazy? I only played a couple hours but I never saw anything that seemed impressive.

while I agree ainz gets his teeth kicked in by sora/donald/goofy (zeta flare still makes donald the single greatest mage in final fantasy) Lets not pretend he wouldn't have some epic battle for the sake of spectacle. He had an epic boss battle with fucking clayton, Im 99% sure kingdom hearts bases the length of the boss fight off how cool they think the enemy looks.

 

[Papa Nier]

Is genshin impact really that crazy? I only played a couple hours but I never saw anything that seemed impressive.

Last I've heard they were island level and mhs.

 

[Randomdude]

Last I've heard they were island level and mhs.

Since when and why? Im honestly curious like I said jumped after a couple hours of grinding so Im really out of touch but the whole verse felt really low stakes.

 

[Randomdude]

Dude, I'm going to say this for one last time and leave it:

1. If we go by your logic for the Metaverse being the reason why they cannot compete against Overlord, then vice versa should be the case for Overlord as their abilities wouldn't work outside of their franchise,

TBF this is reason to suspect overlords power would still work if you ripped them from their homeverse, mainly that is the backstory of new world, that it was corrupted by the nature of players who were using there powers to establish themselves as god kings. (Its why dragon lords consider them taint/polluters of the world, the world didn't used to have tiered magic/function off the gamey systems)

It's all pointless semantics of course cause no vs debate assumes powers dissapear unless the op is specifically noting things to work that way. Like saying "Human ainz" or "Kirito outside the game"

Saying that still one of my fav old threads where everyone pointed out ainz was a decrepit thirty year old man living in hell with fake lungs and eating nutrient paste while kirito was a somewhat healthy teenager.

 

[Adamant soul]

No one on that list is losing. Meanwhile Sora

Could be worse, could be using a keyblade that looks like a pumpkin.
Or it could be Hope and they'd be getting their ass kicked by a 14 year old with a boomerang.

 

[Papa Nier]

Since when and why? Im honestly curious like I said jumped after a couple hours of grinding so Im really out of touch but the whole verse felt really low stakes.

The island level is attributed to Barbatos, also known as Venti, who reshaped the mountainous terrain of Mondstadt into open plains and plateaus. In the past, Andrius was capable of creating blizzards that covered the entire region of Mondstadt, leaving it as a frozen wasteland. Raiden, on the other hand, split Yashiori Island, while Barbatos is stated to blow away the tallest mountain in Mondstadt, dropping it off in the middle of the ocean.

Mhs is The Traveler dodging Raiden's lightning.

 

[Papa Nier]

Could be worse, could be using a keyblade that looks like a pumpkin.
Or it could be Hope and they'd be getting their ass kicked by a 14 year old with a boomerang.

Or using the Winnie the Pooh/Sweet Memories Keyblade to balloon bounce everyone. Sora needs to beat his high score.