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Death Battle Discussion

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The Grinch Vs Jack Skellington Vs blog

The Grinch Vs Jack Skellington Vs Blog “Don’t let the past steal your present. This is the message of Christmas: we are never alone.” - Taylor Caldwell The Grinch, the what terrorizing whoville from the top of the mountains. Jack Skellington, the legendary pumpkin king of Halloween town. ...
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Brother
Brother no
 
they also somehow managed to lowball the cosmology as well


tl;dr cosmology, where Optimus scales at his peak etc, what they got wrong


-universes are infinite as confirmed by Vector Prime in Balancing Act and his toy bio, and even as early as the 1990s in the Beast Wars Neo manga. There’s other statements but there is nothing contradicting this, it’s only ever called infinite.
-multiverse has infinite universes. Pretty simple. Except that we have various sources (Universe 2001, the Back to the Future Crossover, the TFCC Crossing Over comic) that tell us every possible version of the universe exists. Ask Vector Prime confirms there are an uncountable infinity of those which is significant because that’s specific mathematic terminology re: higher infinity nonsense. Essentially each universe has a far greater than infinite number of alternates. Regeneration One establishes that universes have infinite pasts and futures separate from other timelines as well.
-Higher dimensions: at least 17 but two statements of “countless” exist where the context isn’t talking about universes. I dislike dimensional tiering but this needs to be noted regardless.
-Tree of Life, this is the major one. It isn’t a dimension, and transccends the multiverse/reality itself to such an extent that it’s a mere metaphor for even the Tree’s base level. The tree is a part of Primus and still exists post-Shroud.
-megaverse/onniverse stuff: the universes/multiverses outside the main TF one. Unicron is stated even when weakened to be a virus on the omniverse, and would destroy every plane of existence. Scorponok fucking with just one of Primus’ bodies in AVP sucked a planet into the multiverse from the omniverse. They scale to it.

Almost all of their placements for Optimus in relation to this are completely wrong. Thunderwing is not universe level, Shockwave was only going to place one universe into a time loop while siphoning power from another one and Optimus doesn’t scale to that, Golden Megatron both needs prep and it’s arguable he only meant he is merging the universes of the Precursor World (7 universes), even if he wasn’t he was stopped before he destroyed even a single timeline. Alternity Optimus is multiversal and the strongest Optimus, but does not scale to the entire multiverse and not even Alternity Megatron does. Nobody scales to the Unicron Singularity because it exists outside space and time and the Cybertron characters only experienced it in one universe, only Primus scales as he stopped it from consuming every universe. UT Megatron didn’t absorb enough of Unicron’s power to give him this ridiculous tiering, something the Japanese dvd material is explicit about, he got stronger but is not comparable to Unicron at all. Nobody but Unicron/Primus scales to the Star Saber and no artifact scales above it, that’s a really bizarre interpretation.


Peak Optimus is multiversal and higher dimensional or whatever. You aren’t getting him higher than that with any truly accurate interpretation of his feats.
 
OtherGalaxy said:
they also somehow managed to lowball the cosmology as well


tl;dr cosmology, where Optimus scales at his peak etc, what they got wrong


-universes are infinite as confirmed by Vector Prime in Balancing Act and his toy bio, and even as early as the 1990s in the Beast Wars Neo manga. There’s other statements but there is nothing contradicting this, it’s only ever called infinite.
-multiverse has infinite universes. Pretty simple. Except that we have various sources (Universe 2001, the Back to the Future Crossover, the TFCC Crossing Over comic) that tell us every possible version of the universe exists. Ask Vector Prime confirms there are an uncountable infinity of those which is significant because that’s specific mathematic terminology re: higher infinity nonsense. Essentially each universe has a far greater than infinite number of alternates. Regeneration One establishes that universes have infinite pasts and futures separate from other timelines as well.
-Higher dimensions: at least 17 but two statements of “countless” exist where the context isn’t talking about universes. I dislike dimensional tiering but this needs to be noted regardless.
-Tree of Life, this is the major one. It isn’t a dimension, and transccends the multiverse/reality itself to such an extent that it’s a mere metaphor for even the Tree’s base level. The tree is a part of Primus and still exists post-Shroud.
-megaverse/onniverse stuff: the universes/multiverses outside the main TF one. Unicron is stated even when weakened to be a virus on the omniverse, and would destroy every plane of existence. Scorponok fucking with just one of Primus’ bodies in AVP sucked a planet into the multiverse from the omniverse. They scale to it.

Almost all of their placements for Optimus in relation to this are completely wrong. Thunderwing is not universe level, Shockwave was only going to place one universe into a time loop while siphoning power from another one and Optimus doesn’t scale to that, Golden Megatron both needs prep and it’s arguable he only meant he is merging the universes of the Precursor World (7 universes), even if he wasn’t he was stopped before he destroyed even a single timeline. Alternity Optimus is multiversal and the strongest Optimus, but does not scale to the entire multiverse and not even Alternity Megatron does. Nobody scales to the Unicron Singularity because it exists outside space and time and the Cybertron characters only experienced it in one universe, only Primus scales as he stopped it from consuming every universe. UT Megatron didn’t absorb enough of Unicron’s power to give him this ridiculous tiering, something the Japanese dvd material is explicit about, he got stronger but is not comparable to Unicron at all. Nobody but Unicron/Primus scales to the Star Saber and no artifact scales above it, that’s a really bizarre interpretation.


Peak Optimus is multiversal and higher dimensional or whatever. You aren’t getting him higher than that with any truly accurate interpretation of his feats.
Click to expand...
Not really. We have Aligned who scales to the Dark Spark which seperates the Uniend Cluster. We have Cloud World who cam arguably get Hyperversal if you are assuming the Cloud World WAS the safeguard of the multiverse and Megatron was going to destroy it (speaking of Cloud, I wanna share something in the meanwhile in the Transformers thread). I think the Unicron we see in the story wasn't actually JPG1???.

Peak Optimus gets around Hyperversal if you are using Cloud or like the strongest optimus.
 
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