Death Battle Discussion

[alexander082006]

Actually now that I think about it, is Simon going to have Team Dai-Guren with him?

are you ignoring that he can pretty much pilot the mech himself?is not like it is obligatory for him to have his friends (man, if it was obligatory to have friends to pilot the mechs, then SImon will be unable to pilot gurren lagann)

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

CONTEXT

Someone's jumpy

context:
1.the death spiral machine absorbs spiral power, which prevented Simon from transforming the cathedral terra into super galaxy gurren lagann (is not like Simon was generating more spiral power faster than what could the spiral abyss absorb, but still had a hard time).

And? He needed help to get past it, thats the point.

2. Kittan needed to destroy the death spiral machine so it stopped absorbing spiral power (and while doing so, he was able to awaken his spiral power anyway)

He also converted the ocean thing into Spiral Energy which Simon absorbed.

3. Lord genome is not stronger than Simon anyway, yes, he was needed for those two things, but Simon at the end managed to surpass that power after Anti-spiral defeated STTGL, TTGL, SGGL and AGL.

I didnt say he was stronger, I said his sacrifice was necessary for Simon to reach that new level of power. Simon was outright losing before Lord Genome sacrificed himself to absorb the IBBS and empower Simon.

man...HE LITERRALY ABSORBED THE ENTIRE MULTIVERSE OF SIMONS BY HIMSELF (yes i know Kamina helped him wake up, but that was just to wake him up, Kamina didn't give Simon any power), and you are ignoring all the context of this scenes.

You realize this translates to "needed the combined power of every version of himself to create TTGL" right?

The one ignoring context here is you. Simon can't do this stuff by himself. He needed the other members of Team Dai-Gurren, especially Kitan and Lord Genome to level up.

"But he's stronger after that" Yeah because he leveled up. Kitan, Lord Genome, and absorbing his other selves all gave him power he didnt have before. He couldnt spontaneously decide "well time to level up" he needed their help.

Simon can grow stronger to jump this massive levels, which is why at the end he was able to surpass the power of STTGL.

The context of those massive jumps are always "Simon draws on an exterior power source to amp himself"

He cant do that in the DB. Once he's in STTGL, it's not like Yoko or Nia could sacrifice themselves to absorb one of the entities to boost him again. He doesn't get another transformation past STTGL

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

are you ignoring that he can pretty much pilot the mech himself?is not like it is obligatory for him to have his friends (man, if it was obligatory to have friends to pilot the mechs, then SImon will be unable to pilot gurren lagann)

At what point did he pilot TTGL or STTGL by himself? He had the team with him the entire fight. Unless you mean that part where they all split back into separate mechs

 

[AcidSoup]

Yukari - Star Level
Reimu - Large Star
Remilia - large Star
Suika - Large Star
Yukari - Large Star

So yeah thats where we got em

Looked at those profiles and they gave me flashbacks to vsbw battles pages before they mass revamped the Warhammer 40k pages after the Horus Heresy books ended with how incoherent, feature missing, outdated, and justification / evidence lacking they are

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Looked at those profiles and they gave me flashbacks to vsbw battles pages before they mass revamped the Warhammer 40k pages after the Horus Heresy books ended with how incoherent, feature missing, outdated, and justification / evidence lacking they are

Yeah have to agree here let's not act as current touhou profiles on the one are accurate given alot of shit haven't been updated

 

[AcidSoup]

The most recent entry from the series for OBD wiki Touhou pages is Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom. That is a bit under 3 months from a decade old (Considering LOLK's full release. Trial for it is 10+ years old being released on May 10th 2015, and August 14th 2015 for full release)

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

You could always make a meta thread if you want to update the series.

Idk why people act like I'm doing a "gotcha moment" when I say that, it's literally what this half of the OBD forums are for.

If you think it should be considered higher tier than it currently is, go crazy.

 

[Masterblack06]

Like if you have the evidence to upgrade the verse then make the meta thread, prove your stance and then if everyone cool YOU update the wiki.

@AcidSoup get cracking homeboy

 

[alexander082006]

Someone's jumpy

wha

And? He needed help to get past it, thats the point.

well it is a bad point let me tell you that

He also converted the ocean thing into Spiral Energy which Simon absorbed.

that was not Kittan, the Ocean turned into spiral power because of the death of the spiral machine.

I didnt say he was stronger, I said his sacrifice was necessary for Simon to reach that new level of power. Simon was outright losing before Lord Genome sacrificed himself to absorb the IBBS and empower Simon.

i don't call it outright losing if they don't get destroyed almost instantly (thought they were destroyed to be honest)

You realize this translates to "needed the combined power of every version of himself to create TTGL" right?

that he absorbed?

The one ignoring context here is you. Simon can't do this stuff by himself. He needed the other members of Team Dai-Gurren, especially Kitan and Lord Genome to level up.

Simon can generate the power himself, in these two specific instances, there were specific cirmcustances, one of them was a machine that absorbs spiral power, the other is the big bang itself

"But he's stronger after that" Yeah because he leveled up. Kitan, Lord Genome, and absorbing his other selves all gave him power he didnt have before. He couldnt spontaneously decide "well time to level up" he needed their help.

man, how could he absorb all the versions of himself, and the multiverse, if he didn't have the power to do so???or do you think he somehow absorbed the multiverse with a pre amp or something?

The context of those massive jumps are always "Simon draws on an exterior power source to amp himself"

Spiral power is the source that binds the universe and the spiral life forms, that is not a outside source, that is literraly the power source of everyone in the verse.
calling it drawing power from a outside source is at the same level of saying a character using their POWER SYSTEM, is drawing power from a outside source.

He cant do that in the DB. Once he's in STTGL, it's not like Yoko or Nia could sacrifice themselves to absorb one of the entities to boost him again. He doesn't get another transformation past STTGL

is not like he needs another transformation past STTGL, again, he was able to surpass that power afterwards, so having another transformation is pointless.

At what point did he pilot TTGL or STTGL by himself? He had the team with him the entire fight. Unless you mean that part where they all split back into separate mechs

i was mostly reffering to when he uses Gurren Lagann without another pilot in Gurren (which, will make it unusuable if it was required another pilot)

 

[Qinglong]

Weather was a major contributor to Touhou pages, other fans of the series no longer post on NF and/or got banned, Weather stopped posting at least 5 years ago AFAIK.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

wha

Problem?

well it is a bad point let me tell you that

Keep telling yourself that

that was not Kittan, the Ocean turned into spiral power because of the death of the spiral machine.

Which was caused by Kittan ramming it with his version of Giga Drill Break

i don't call it outright losing if they don't get destroyed almost instantly (thought they were destroyed to be honest)

TTGL was in the process of being destroyed. It was losing the fight.

that he absorbed?

Yes, which empowered him. What part of this is difficult?

Simon can generate the power himself, in these two specific instances, there were specific cirmcustances, one of them was a machine that absorbs spiral power, the other is the big bang itself

He can't. His last three big power-ups were all "let me absorb this giant outside power-source to get stronger"

man, how could he absorb all the versions of himself, and the multiverse, if he didn't have the power to do so???or do you think he somehow absorbed the multiverse with a pre amp or something?

Absorbing the other versions of himself is what made him stronger. They weren't fighting or resisting him, it wasnt something he had to exert energy to do. They flowed into him and made him stronger.

Spiral power is the source that binds the universe and the spiral life forms, that is not a outside source, that is literraly the power source of everyone in the verse.
calling it drawing power from a outside source is at the same level of saying a character using their POWER SYSTEM, is drawing power from a outside source.

Are you for real?

Idk how to tell you this but Goku using the Spirit Bomb is an outside power source. Naruto borrowing power from the Tailed Beasts is an outside power source. Ryuuko absorbing everyone's Life Fibers is an outside power source.

Simon did not generate the energy he used to power-up by himself. It did not come from him.

is not like he needs another transformation past STTGL, again, he was able to surpass that power afterwards, so having another transformation is pointless.

The point is that he cant jump an order of magnitude in power like he did for his last three forms.

i was mostly reffering to when he uses Gurren Lagann without another pilot in Gurren (which, will make it unusuable if it was required another pilot)

I distinctly recall a scene where the little mole thing generating spiral energy from Gurren in place of Viral was said to have boosted GL's performance.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Super Galaxy Gurren Lagan -> Simon absorbs the Spiral Energy of the space ocean released by King Kittan GDB

TTGL -> Simon absorbs his other selves from the Labryinth and combines his Spiral Energy with the rest of Team Dai-Gurren

STTGL -> absorbs the giant drill created by Lord Genome out of IBBS

The energy required to do these things is not created by Simon himself. He draws on sources of Spiral Energy outside of that generated by his own body and will to make himself stronger.

The point of which is that in order to trigger a massive, exponential power boost like these three forms represented, Simon requires outside assistance. Which he would not have in the DB.

While he could still get stronger over time, it's not to the extent of suddenly boosting himself by orders of magnitude. Which means if he's overpowered by orders of magnitude while already in STTGL, he can just lose outright to the power differential.

 

[Masterblack06]

100% they are gonna have Simon absorb a green lantern construct inorder to become STTGL

I can smell it

 

[alexander082006]

100% they are gonna have Simon absorb a green lantern construct inorder to become STTGL

I can smell it

sounds possible, sounds cool

 

[alexander082006]

Super Galaxy Gurren Lagan -> Simon absorbs the Spiral Energy of the space ocean released by King Kittan GDB

ignoring that Simon was already able to transform it, but it was stopped by the death spiral machine

TTGL -> Simon absorbs his other selves from the Labryinth and combines his Spiral Energy with the rest of Team Dai-Gurren

that still Simon power.

STTGL -> absorbs the giant drill created by Lord Genome out of IBBS

okay

The energy required to do these things is not created by Simon himself. He draws on sources of Spiral Energy outside of that generated by his own body and will to make himself stronger.

he still needs the power himself to be able to pull up those things, like absorbing his other selves on the Multiversal laberynth.

The point of which is that in order to trigger a massive, exponential power boost like these three forms represented, Simon requires outside assistance. Which he would not have in the DB.

they gave Ryuko her Kisaragi form even when that requires outside assitance.

While he could still get stronger over time, it's not to the extent of suddenly boosting himself by orders of magnitude. Which means if he's overpowered by orders of magnitude while already in STTGL, he can just lose outright to the power differential.

Super granzeboma destroyed the drill of STTGL, then the drill of TTGL, then the drill of SGGL, then the drill of AGL, then GL manage to stop it and break the drill of Super Granzeboma.

 

[alexander082006]

Problem?

dificultades?

Keep telling yourself that

man i am not insane

Which was caused by Kittan ramming it with his version of Giga Drill Break

thanks for telling me something i already known

TTGL was in the process of being destroyed. It was losing the fight.

it was not breaking on the quantum level like Lazegann, so tecnically it was tanking the attack.

Yes, which empowered him. What part of this is difficult?

nothing???????

He can't. His last three big power-ups were all "let me absorb this giant outside power-source to get stronger"

why can't he do this in the fight?do you think they will really not give him TTGL OR STTGL????????

Absorbing the other versions of himself is what made him stronger. They weren't fighting or resisting him, it wasnt something he had to exert energy to do. They flowed into him and made him stronger.

He absorbed them, yes, they didn't fight or resist, but that doesn't mean that it's still a feat of Simon's that he could absorb the entire multiverse and then escape from it

Are you for real?

just has much has you are for real on your ideas.

Idk how to tell you this but Goku using the Spirit Bomb is an outside power source. Naruto borrowing power from the Tailed Beasts is an outside power source. Ryuuko absorbing everyone's Life Fibers is an outside power source.

1. yes
2. yes
3. they still allowed her to have Kisaragi anyway

Simon did not generate the energy he used to power-up by himself. It did not come from him.
The point is that he cant jump an order of magnitude in power like he did for his last three forms.
I distinctly recall a scene where the little mole thing generating spiral energy from Gurren in place of Viral was said to have boosted GL's performance.

yes, Boota generated energy, which boosted GL performance, but Simon was already generating alot of Energy by himself, also my point is that is not a obligatory thing to have another pilot to pilot the mech (and is not like the users have that power themselves...right?)

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

ignoring that Simon was already able to transform it, but it was stopped by the death spiral machine

He wasn't though. He spent a good portion of the fight trying but couldn't muster the energy even before they fell into the space ocean.

that still Simon power.

No it isn't. The other versions of himself were created by the Labryinth, they weren't something he had access to outside of that situation.

okay

Okay

he still needs the power himself to be able to pull up those things, like absorbing his other selves on the Multiversal laberynth.

No? They aren't resisting being absorbed. He's taking in already existing energy.

they gave Ryuko her Kisaragi form even when that requires outside assitance.

So?

Super granzeboma destroyed the drill of STTGL, then the drill of TTGL, then the drill of SGGL, then the drill of AGL, then GL manage to stop it and break the drill of Super Granzeboma.

It's almost like the clashes beforehand exhausted the energy.

Gurren Lagan was overpowered and torn apart by tendrils of the planet, and Lagan was ripped to pieces by the Anti-Spiral directly.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

dificultades?

問題?

man i am not insane

That sounds like something an insane person would say

thanks for telling me something i already known

Thus not something Simon did himself

it was not breaking on the quantum level like Lazegann, so tecnically it was tanking the attack.

No, they were explicitly losing the struggle. IBBS would have killed them

nothing???????

And yet still you struggle

why can't he do this in the fight?do you think they will really not give him TTGL OR STTGL????????

Because he doesn't have a giant extra source of Spiral Energy?

Of course they'll let him have those, my point from the start has been that if they arent enough power-wise he can't go past them. He can't jump an order of magnitude in strength beyond STTGL.....and Kyle is stronger than the Anti-Spiral ever was.

He absorbed them, yes, they didn't fight or resist, but that doesn't mean that it's still a feat of Simon's that he could absorb the entire multiverse and then escape from it

It's not a feat of power, no. It's a demonstration of his absorption powers, but not his actual strength.

just has much has you are for real on your ideas.

Somehow I doubt that

1. yes
2. yes
3. they still allowed her to have Kisaragi anyway

So you acknowledge that Simon needed an external source of energy for his last three forms. Good, we're making progress.

And again, i didnt say they wouldnt let him have those forms. I said they wont have him jump beyond them when Kyle ends up being massively stronger.

yes, Boota generated energy, which boosted GL performance, but Simon was already generating alot of Energy by himself, also my point is that is not a obligatory thing to have another pilot to pilot the mech (and is not like the users have that power themselves...right?)

My point was "Simon doesn't do this shit alone", and the mechs we were talking about in that context were TTGL and STTGL, which are composites of team Dai-Gurren

 

[alexander082006]

He wasn't though. He spent a good portion of the fight trying but couldn't muster the energy even before they fell into the space ocean.

most of his friends were getting killed

No it isn't. The other versions of himself were created by the Labryinth, they weren't something he had access to outside of that situation.

The multiverse already existed, the labyrinth forces you to perceive those possibilities, being a trap for consciousness.

No? They aren't resisting being absorbed. He's taking in already existing energy.

that still requires that he has powers, or do you think absorbing a entire universe is not universe level?

So?

this guys can give the same to simon?

It's almost like the clashes beforehand exhausted the energy.

there is no mention of that, even Anti-spiral seems surprised by Simon being able to stand up against his power.

Gurren Lagan was overpowered and torn apart by tendrils of the planet, and Lagan was ripped to pieces by the Anti-Spiral directly.

power progression, has always.

 

[alexander082006]

問題?

ahora escribiste en japonez no ahi problema?

That sounds like something an insane person would say

nah a insane person won't even tell you something sane, they will probably say something like...don't know

Thus not something Simon did himself

okay man

No, they were explicitly losing the struggle. IBBS would have killed them

then why didn't they got killed instantly?if that is not tanking something, i don't know what it is

And yet still you struggle

to understand you

Because he doesn't have a giant extra source of Spiral Energy?

Of course they'll let him have those, my point from the start has been that if they arent enough power-wise he can't go past them. He can't jump an order of magnitude in strength beyond STTGL.....and Kyle is stronger than the Anti-Spiral ever was.

there are arguments to be made for that

It's not a feat of power, no. It's a demonstration of his absorption powers, but not his actual strength.

if you absorb a infinite multiverse, you get that feat of power, you can't absorb something so big, without yourself scaling to that think.

Somehow I doubt that

then we are not that different in that part.

So you acknowledge that Simon needed an external source of energy for his last three forms. Good, we're making progress.

And again, i didnt say they wouldnt let him have those forms. I said they wont have him jump beyond them when Kyle ends up being massively stronger.

they will, because that will be ignoring the spiral power evolution capacity, which you seem to just call useless.

My point was "Simon doesn't do this shit alone", and the mechs we were talking about in that context were TTGL and STTGL, which are composites of team Dai-Gurren

then it is a pointless point because we both know they are going to give it to him anyway