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Dio Brando (Jojo's Bizarre Adventure) vs Issac Netero (HunterXHunter)

This is just going over the basic mechanics of molecular intangibility and energy/forcefields and how they usually interact across fiction. My point is the burden of proof wouldn’t just be on me to show Nen can block Stand Phasing, but could be on you to show Stand Phasing can bypass energy fields.
Yeah no, unless you prove the Nen energy fields can reject any sort of incorporeal being as basic thing or an ability available to a certain Nen user you cannot just say they are automatically able to reject anything like Stand phasing itself through. Also, the argument for how Forcefields work across fiction is flawed as hell because they usually do not act the same and have different properties and ways of defending that makes it simply too much of a headache trying to equalize them. I fail to see how we can just say that any energy filed in HxH acts the very same as one which blocks ghosts, spirit, or incorporeal beings in another verse. Unless HxH shows feats of it's own we can only assume they block physical things. As we have seen Star Platinum and The World phase in and out of their stand user and see that Star Platinum can physically interact with them to the point of stopping one's heart there is no reason why a Nen energy field can block that unless it can interact even with an incorporeal being.


But in the end this part of the argument is something I am not focused on since if Nen users are as strong on the inside as they are on the outside it means nothing in the end.
But the mechanics of the phasing itself are never specified to be spiritual in nature. If a natural lightning strike (pure energy) for example hit a stand, is there really enough evidence to say the stand would be unaffected? I don’t really think there would be much of a distinction from the lightning strike and say.. Red Hot Chili Pepper’s electrical attacks.
Except for the fact that RHCP actively interacts with lighting as it's special ability and using him as an example is flimsy since Stands can be vastly different from one another to the point that some can seen and interacted with by normal people like Strength in Part 3 and Surface in part 4. Not to mention I did argue that if not a basic ability it is at least shown by SP and therefore would make sense for the World.
In the anime he visibly reacted in surprise to being frozen in Jotaro’s timestop. He had enough awareness that if he could’ve just immediately reactivated his own timestop he would’ve done it rather than let himself remain frozen.
He did nothing but show surprise that he was slowing down and did not know Jotaro was alive until after he was fully immobile, even in the anime Jotaro does not reveal himself until after Dio is completely frozen.
Jotaro to begin with activated his timestop after Dio’s so we know Timestop can be activated within a timestop to allow the stand user to be unfrozen.
Which is something that is irrelevant for Netero. Not to mention it was Jotaro's own time stop, not Dio's who thought his time stop ran for 11 seconds but he was really in Jotaro's time stop which is why he was moving before he started to slow down like with Jotaro when he first started moving in time stop.
The cooldown would probably be for the same duration the timestop was active for given what we’ve seen. The only time Jotaro ever really consecutively used timestop was when he was using them for one or two seconds each while dodging the Rat stand’s darts.
Where were they stated to be seconds and not just him moving one after the other? It's complete conjecture to say there is any cooldown, much less one that takes as long as the time stop itself when nothing ever states it, we know Jotaro can chain his time tops and the only reason he was caught was because the Rat's stand was FTL as well and SHA should be since it was troublesome for SP to react to. I see no reason to assume there is a cooldown or that it is long enough to prevent Dio from chaining his time stops enough to close the distance between him and Netero.
And to be clear every instance of seconds being brought up during timestop they are treated as actual seconds going by, not the FTL reaction stand user’s perception of seconds, but actual seconds. So the cooldown shouldn’t be lessened by their perception just like the actual time stops aren’t treated like they are an eternity for characters who can react at FTL.
You mean the same seconds where they are monologuing on and on for way more amount of time than it would make sense to? where they are clearly moving around and attacking with way more time than is actually stated? Because I fail to see how your point would make sense unless you are saying their reactions are slower than the speed of their stand when it is only because they react that they can control how they attack at all and we see Dio deflect Kakyoin's Emerald Splash with just his own speed and strength without The World which is blatantly FTL. Once again, we know nothing of any "cooldown" We just see time stop than we see them use it again whenever they feel to.
Netero may have slower reactions but he isn’t as limited when it comes to long-distance movement. Killua could keep his speed-boosting Kanmaru form going for miles on end, and Cheetu sprinted at top speed for days.
Does not matter when Dio's FTL reactions means he will instantly know where he is aiming and intending to move and can just time stop right off the bat to start closing the distance before it ends. Then just time stop again after that which should not be hard when Netero will most likely be surprised at how Dio seems to be moving faster than him due to no knowledge on The World which can make him change his strategy or be shocked for a microsecond which would be more than enough for Dio to take advantage of by time stopping again to close the distence.
So the MHS hands and arms of Netero’s Bodhisvitta (as well as the Blast Radius of Zero Hand’s energy) would cross a larger distance than Dio’s supersonic movement in the same span of time. Dio wouldn’t see the Bodhisvitta arm moving to begin with (considering the op mentions neither can see each other’s ability) so wouldn’t even say think to dodge. And even if Dio somehow figured out an invisible attack was coming for him and tried to make The World punch it away, The World would get easily overpowered and both it and Dio would get slammed into the ground and squashed.
Incorrect, Dio is as blood lusted as Netero is in this fight so he will go in for the kill immediately and use time stop to close the distance as fast as he can and try hitting Netero which, if he sees how useless the World's punches are will just resort to other means like the SRSE which will finish off Netero before he can react since even with just Supersonic movement speed Dio has FTL reactions that can allow him to spam time stop which can give him enough time to a conclusion that Netero is too tough and needs something stronger to take down.

Also, why would Meruem instantly go with Bodhisvitta and especially Zero hand? Since he has no knowledge like Dio why would he not just try fighting him regularly even with bloodlust since he does not know how dangerous he is, only that he is going all out which could just involve him hitting him with a bloodlusted punch or kick? Zero hand is a move that is only for last resort since it completely saps him of power.
Now in the most favorable scenario Dio either activates timestop at the very start or activates it right before the Bodhisvitta hand can hit him somehow despite him not being able to see it. But in either case the moment timestop runs out the Bodhisvitta can just take another swing, and who knows if Dio would be lucky enough to sense another invisible attack right after evading the first. Evading what you can’t see coming (especially something as massive as the Bodhisvitta hands moving at MHS) requires more than just reaction speed I would think.
Nonsense, you can be as big as you want, MHS is just MHS, reacting to something with FTL speed means it will always be slow in comparison. And if Dio sees how useless The World's punches are he will become cautious and will not act like an idiot if he sees Netero make arm movements that look like they are attacking but is to far away for it to hit which being that Dio knows of Stands will automatically assume Netero is a Stand User who has a Stand he cannot see(lol he kinda is really) and he will instantly time stop again if he is worried and needs to think on what to do.
I don’t see how Dio’s massively slower movement relative to his reactions wouldn’t prove to be a problem when Netero doesn’t have the same disparity with the movement of himself and his attacks.
Because Netero cannot stop time as he pleases? Because Netero is only MHS in reactions whereas Dio can react so much faster that all of Netero's movements will come off as a snail to him? Like really people really underestimate the sheer gap between MHS and FTL especially in the hands of a time stopper who can chain them up leaving their opponent defenseless.
Nah. Ko is when a nen user is focusing their nen in a specific area (making it a bit denser basically) while Ken is them covering their entire body with it as a sort of aura barrier. It’s only more durable in relation to Ken, but not that huge a gap. And Ken is something a nen user would naturally go into a fight already having activated.
So was Killua using Ken when he got farted on by that Ant?
 
Dio couldn't use several abilities for most of Stardust Crusaders because he couldn't fully control Jonathan's body. The first time he actually could (post drinking Joseph dry) he was already staring down Star Platinum, and considering what we saw with Hamon, he would have deemed SRSE ineffective against stands.

The Over Heaven novels have him write something similar to this, but I'm not sure how canon those are
 
as far as I know, none of the novels have been deemed canon

and yeah in canon it makes sense not to use SRSE on Jotaro. It's a massively slower and weaker attack at that point in the series (not that Araki gave a shit about this but you know)

this is only really a discussion because the anime boosted that particular feat so much
 
I still find it funny that Dio could have killed Jotaro effortlessly with the SRSE instead of choosing to splash his eyes with blood
 
As far as the manga goes SRSE wouldn't do much against Stands, much like how Hamon barely affects even weaker stands

it's only being brought up because the anime is included which has a much stronger SRSE
 
Speed difference is only going to prolong Dio’s death for so long unless he has infinite stamina Netero’s gonna catch him slipping sooner or later and it’s lights out
 
From all the arguments against Dio here, I'm guessing that shit with the "damage stacking time-stop" a decade ago was thoroughly debunked.
 
The damage numbers for the stacking by GM(?) took too much liberties. It is still a thing, it's just nowhere near as high as it used to be (~town level or so as opposed to the ~country level calc of old)
 
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I don't even know how town level was decided on tbh

I remember reading the thread where we rejected country level damage accumulation, but town level just seemed to be an arbitrary decision. Could be wrong though.

here's the thread for reference I don't feel like going through it all rn
 
Speed difference is only going to prolong Dio’s death for so long unless he has infinite stamina Netero’s gonna catch him slipping sooner or later and it’s lights out
He's a century old vampire that had no problem living without blood and never showed being tired when fighting. I doubt stamina matters here especially when he has regeneration that should by proxy work to prolong it since it helps keep his body in shape. Not to mention nothing has shown Dio cannot keep stopping time after every 9 seconds right after the other before Netero can react. Still waiting on if SRSE is city level in the anime version.
 
I don't even know how town level was decided on tbh

I remember reading the thread where we rejected country level damage accumulation, but town level just seemed to be an arbitrary decision. Could be wrong though.

here's the thread for reference I don't feel like going through it all rn

I checked the thread, low end from Unlosing Ranger puts it at ~15 kilotons, town level

Jackalinbox claims there was an earlier thread arguing for base town level regardless since it's a tier above regular barrage at minimum, and both threads would basically agree with disregarding the country level calc

I haven't found the second thread though
 
town level seems to just be from the Justice Breathing calc Brohan did, and actually in the thread some people claim that calc got thrown out so ?????

either way it doesn't really actually explain how much damage they could do in timestop in a numerical sense. The thread didnt really accomplish much people just got sick of arguing
 
town level seems to just be from the Justice Breathing calc Brohan did, and actually in the thread some people claim that calc got thrown out so ?????

either way it doesn't really actually explain how much damage they could do in timestop in a numerical sense. The thread didnt really accomplish much people just got sick of arguing
Nah it's not from the justice calc

UR also submitted similar to myself and UD during the composite versus battle tournament, just that with his prep his was much higher (~continent level over 60 years or some shit)
 
Nah it's not from the justice calc

UR also submitted similar to myself and UD during the composite versus battle tournament, just that with his prep his was much higher (~continent level over 60 years or some shit)
I'm not really understanding what he means here since he just links back to the Breath calc. How did he get town level using that exact same calc? This doesn't make any sense.


Read the rest of that page and other quotes and I don't see any explanation for how he got the lower number from the barrage.


I'm not even arguing in favor of country level Jotaro/Dio just that this thread was not conclusive at all.
 
Oh I was logged out because I can't see 4th Reiatsu's posts otherwise. the way I understand it is brohan was applying ~kiloton to each individual punch for his calculation, UR's is applying for a barrage instead of for individual punches
 
Oh I was logged out because I can't see 4th Reiatsu's posts otherwise. the way I understand is is brohan was applying ~kiloton to each individual punch for his calculation, UR's is for a barrage instead of individual punches
wouldn't billions of MCB punches net insanely higher numbers than that

considering Kars got into low kilotons just for having 100x more power than Joseph did

this isn't adding up

Brohan also had SP's punches at 25 tons here (I'm assuming this is tons of tnt right) whoch iirc is even higher than the 19 tons that came from Tarkus' original calc EM did
 
No, UR isn't using MCB for each individual punch. It's assuming the entire barrage is MCB+. Each individual punch being MCB is how we got country level in the first place, it was just lower than 200 teratons.

EDIT: or it was at least 80 gigatons, one of the two
 
why would the entire barrage be mcb if SP is already stronger than Dio who is much stronger than Tarkus?


Am I grossly misunderstanding the diamond calc maybe? Because the comments were saying it was city block level on its own, which usually requires a few tons of tnt at minimum
 
it's above MCB for the barrage, I put plus since I wasn't sure the exact figure UR used. You could try asking him, not sure if he moved here.

EDIT: I can't find the tarkus one, but at 19 tons and 24 tons respectively? both are very low on the MCB scale, which goes up to triple digit tons
 
it's above MCB for the barrage, I put plus since I wasn't sure the exact figure UR used. You could try asking him, not sure if he moved here.

EDIT: I can't find the tarkus one, but at 19 tons and 24 tons respectively? both are very low on the MCB scale, which goes up to triple digit tons
I thought he was here but I guess not. Need to check if he's still active on fanzverse

Tarkus one was an old one by EM so it might have been wiped in one of many forum updates. I've seen other sites get numbers as low as 1 ton for the same feat but we don't use those. Regardless Dio still takes SP's 25 ton punches in a weaker body than he had in Part 1.

Main point is that billions of low end cb punches would still way well beyond town level if we considered the time stop damage to accumulate

so the question here I guess is what number was UR using for individual punch strength I guess?
 
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