Toriyama: Powerscaling? Hah! What the fuck is that?
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Dragon Ball Discussion Thread: MBXX Ultra Ego
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why?So uh
According to spoilers, Vegeta says he wants to fight Jiren in the movie
tho if thats true that mean the idea that Jiren was left in the dust is another Head Canon buried
He wants to test out his own strength
The fact that they couldn't do the same with the objectively better character in Hit.
Hit was never relevant in Toriyama’s scriptThe fact that they couldn't do the same with the objectively better character in Hit.
He was weaker than Super Saiyan God in his debut for the manga. He was always meant to be fodder. Only Toei made him stronger than he actually was
I don't think it was in Tori's script that he's weaker than SS God, that's just something Trashtaro chose to do for his version. Lazeyama was okay with how Toei interpreted Hit in his intro arc.
Regardless though, Toei made him better than Lazeyama's garbage ass script, if that actually was the case, and definitely made him much better than the trash ass canon fanfic manga did, though that's no surprise.
I mean I always found it weird people believed Jiren was ever left in the dust at all. Dude required so much bullshit to even get ringed out and he STILL wasn't even done even after all of that, he just didn't want to get up.
I don't think it was in Tori's script that he's weaker than SS God, that's just something Trashtaro chose to do for his version. Lazeyama was okay with how Toei interpreted Hit in his intro arc.
Regardless though, Toei made him better than Lazeyama's garbage ass script, if that actually was the case, and definitely made him much better than the trash ass canon fanfic manga did, though that's no surprise.
That's why I respect the Anime more than the Manga despite it's faults.
Actually gave us a ToP worth remembering.
Actually tried to build up Gohan and everyone else for the ToP(Even KRILLIN came off better in the Anime compared to the manga where he was just thrown out unceremoniously)
Zamasu and Goku Black actually had memorable characters
Hit actually improved as did the other U6 Tournament fighters
Actually didn't really do anyone in the other Universes in the ToP Arc dirty.
I wouldn't be surprised if TOEI isn't continuing the Anime because they know Toriyama would force them to do Moro and Granolah the way he wants them to and like... yeah, no.
Yeah like I said head Canon
Niggas just believe Goku and geets left him in the dust with the Moro arc
It has a catch now? And Krillin had to be the one to remind him of his own technique? The fuckery just continues, doesn't it?
The Moro arc literally HappenedIt has a catch now? And Krillin had to be the one to remind him of his own technique? The fuckery just continues, doesn't it?
How the hell Piccolo forgot about it unless goat boy didn't exist
My sides would launch into orbit if they retconned that steaming pile of dogshit arc, and the one after it, by basically no-selling their existence.
I said this on Nardoforums, but
In Toriyama’s mind, Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form after Ultra Instinct
that explains why Beerus hasn’t been surpassed yet despite the anime and manga churning out new forms…Toriyama isn’t aware of them
he knows about Ultra Instinct (and I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be stronger than the GoDs in Toriyama’s vision) but that’s locked out in the movies (the real canon)
that also explains why Jiren is still relevant….he wasn’t actually surpassed
In Toriyama’s mind, Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form after Ultra Instinct
that explains why Beerus hasn’t been surpassed yet despite the anime and manga churning out new forms…Toriyama isn’t aware of them
he knows about Ultra Instinct (and I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be stronger than the GoDs in Toriyama’s vision) but that’s locked out in the movies (the real canon)
that also explains why Jiren is still relevant….he wasn’t actually surpassed
I mean, Goku only got over him in the anime because of UI, so it stands to reason that, without it, he'd still be significantly weaker than Jiren. As would Vegeta.I said this on Nardoforums, but
In Toriyama’s mind, Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form after Ultra Instinct
that explains why Beerus hasn’t been surpassed yet despite the anime and manga churning out new forms…Toriyama isn’t aware of them
he knows about Ultra Instinct (and I’m pretty sure it’s meant to be stronger than the GoDs in Toriyama’s vision) but that’s locked out in the movies (the real canon)
that also explains why Jiren is still relevant….he wasn’t actually surpassed
Then again, considering Toriyama's involvement with both the anime and the manga, I have a hard time believing he didn't become aware of the other forms. He probably just either didn't care, or forgot about them. Wouldn't be the first time that happened.
Also, that means the promotional statement in the anime of Jiren > GODs could still hold weight. Something I personally don't care for, seeing as his backstory and character are terrible, but eh, whatever.Also, funnily enough, this would mean Hit would still be relevant in the sense he would be at a similar enough level of power to Goku and Vegeta, minus the UI thing, at least in the anime version. Of course, Lazeyama's no doubt already forgot about him, so off he goes to the bin of irrelevance, unfortunately. Senile old bastard, when he does eventually get cajoled into doing a planet Sadala arc where they visit universe 6, will probably have to be reminded by Trashtaro of all people that he even exists.
ha Tbf it VjumpDoesn’t help that official material confirms it takes place after Moro
Said this on the other forum
The intent is clear. Toriyama doesn’t view anyone on Earth besides Goku and Vegeta as god tier. God ki and SSB are actually meant to be hot-shit, but Toei and Toyo realized that wouldn’t work in a long running series outside of the movies so they bumped up Gohan, 17, etc
Chances are Ultimate Gohan will be Buu saga Ultimate level, but his new power up will boost him to god tier (officially, in Toriyama’s mind at least)
The intent is clear. Toriyama doesn’t view anyone on Earth besides Goku and Vegeta as god tier. God ki and SSB are actually meant to be hot-shit, but Toei and Toyo realized that wouldn’t work in a long running series outside of the movies so they bumped up Gohan, 17, etc
Chances are Ultimate Gohan will be Buu saga Ultimate level, but his new power up will boost him to god tier (officially, in Toriyama’s mind at least)