fate zero sucks

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greenwater55

greenwater55

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Fate/Zero is a gateway anime of the worst kind. It's a bad series, a clusterfuck of story and characterization that isn't very well done by any aspect, but which attempts to compensate for its weaknesses by adding in excessive edgy bullshit and DARKNESS. i can see this as the shit it is, and may enjoy it, hate it or be indifferent to it, but all the while recognizing that the series itself, regardless of their opinion, is plain bad.

this is the worst emo edgy bullshit i`ve ever saw in my whole fucking life, this is fucking depressing and edgy, also everything urobuchi writes are some edgy pretentious pile of horseshit, pretentious that makes some think they are smart and mature for watching and reading his edgy and pretentious garbage like fate zero, which is a pile of edgy shit and saya no uta which is also edgy garbage, some think urobuchi stories are deep and mature, but in reality his stories are just some edgy and pretentious pile of fucking shit, the characters are shit and fucking emo saber backstory in zero and stay night are most edgy depressing emo bullshit her self-hate makes me wanna punch the fucking screen, i prefer saber in in other fate spinoffs, lancer backstory edgy bullshit and emo nuff said, kiritsugu jesus christ, he is the worst fucking character his backstory is the most fucking depressing emo pile of shit i`ve ever seen, in my fucking life this character is the most edgy pile of shit and this backstory is fucking dogshit, and he killed his mother because this piece of shit is just edgy garbage for the sake of being edgy garbage, it feels so... edgy for the sake of edgy, like, we have kids getting molested/killed, Johnny Yong Bosch voices fucking Purple Guy, a weird creepo wanting to NTR some other dude then turns the girl of his dreams into a fucking vegetable, and the main protag is like Shadow the Hedgehog with zero character development, dude was Terminator mode till the end of the show where he cries because he decided to boom the Grail, bro was a plank of wood the entire series, and I don't care if he's considered "The Cool One" cuz he uses guns and shit kiritsugu is still shit, At first episode I was going to throw up, I dropped watching just a bit later in the series. One scene is enough, it is not spoiler but who watched knows perfectly which scene I am speaking about. Unacceptable even for adults of any age in the movie excalibur king arthur had to kill his son for being a shitty person, he was a honorable not the tyrant like in fate zero.
he philosophy of this anime is just dumb and stupid if you kill you someone bad are a bad person, this just fucking dumb so if i kill someone in self defense or kill someone evil who likes to murder people i am a bad person, not matter how many innocent lives i have saved the philosophy of fate zero is fucking bullshit that's why i hate fate zero. fate zero is a pile of fucking shit and the whole fate franchise is shit too
 
Xhominid The Apex

Xhominid The Apex

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Goddamn, I never expected someone to basically rant about Fate/Zero here...

Well it's a good thing you did it here as I would have asked the mod to remove it from the Nasuverse Threads otherwise.
I won't disagree because I actually agree that Fate/Zero is a TERRIBLE introduction to Fate and hell, to Kinoku Nasu's world, in general(There's a reason why Nasu declared it to be "another timeline" as soon as the first volume was released and why he stated later on that the prequel to F/SN only has the barest of blueprints to Fate/Zero.

Saber's entire characterization in Fate/Zero is so absolutely out of character, Nasu has even stated you have to see this variant and the F/SN variant as "two different characters" despite the fact that's fundamentally impossible(So in the simple case, Nasu is saying that she's basically not even the same person). To put it in the most simple example possible:
Urobuchi never got Saber as a character until well after F/Z was completed. This is why she acts so chivalrous and "honor-bound" when that was not a major part of her character(She explicitly winced and didn't want to announce herself when Sasaki Kojirou introduced himself in UBW and when he told her he did it just out of his own reasons, she didn't do anything else). If anything, she's exactly someone Kiritsugu should like by how he's presented in the show: Someone who will do anything that it takes to win, even dirtying her hands and just ganking someone if she has to. She obviously won't go to the depths Kiritsugu would go but she absolutely would kill a Master if it's the way she has to win(Which makes sense as Garden of Avalon, which goes over how fucked her reign was in terms of everyone wanting to fuck her over, has stated... which came out before F/Z).
Hell, the entire point of Saber getting diminished as a person and as a king is meant to somehow get her to her F/SN characterization... when that makes no sense because in Saber's perspective, she's literally dreaming before she dies(Meaning the difference between F/Z and F/SN is literally NON-EXISTENT from her perspective) meaning she can literally just dismiss it as a dying nightmare and ignore all of it nor would change anything about herself in such a small difference of time.

Kiritsugu is even worse as the anime tries and desperately takes alot of the grime and ultimately how much of a child Kiritsugu is by trying to more or less portray him as a badass who just gets broken due to how fucked the world is(This is genuinely a huge part of the issues in the anime). The entire problem with Kiritsugu is that he's supposed to be a man who never grew out of the tragedy that happened out of his village and ended up adopting the worst aspects of what we see from EMIYA and Shirou's philosophy(Which came from him) and was so hollow, Saber explicitly stated the only thing he ever told her outright... was to destroy the Grail. The anime and LN, in trying to make Kiritsugu far more sympathetic than he is(F/SN has it to where it's heavily implied Kiritsugu truly did betray the Einzberns and Irisviel in a very cruel fashion vs. F/Z where it was just him using the Grail for his own wish behind Irisviel's back who most likely did know it already), completely misses the point of his character.

But it's actually Kotomine who gets it just as bad that most people ignore. The entire point of Heaven's Feel is that Kotomine knew virtually from the jump that he was born twisted and that he HATED the fact he was born twisted. Him going through everything he did was an attempt to try and go past his own nature but constantly failed to the point he just planned on killing himself and went to go see his wife one last time. She sees that he's broken as shit and basically kills herself(she was already ill) because she believed his grief in her death would show that he's a good man at heart... but his actual feelings(That he wanted to kill her himself) just completely broke him.
The key difference in alot of what we see of Kotomine in F/SN is a man who comes off like he enjoys being evil and revels in it... actually DESPISES IT AND HIMSELF and his entire point in wanting Angra Mainyu to be born is to ultimately get his question asked of "If someone is born evil, how would they react to it?". In F/Z, Kotomine is basically treated as if he never knew this fundamental part of his character, Gilgamesh has to basically force him to be evil, he enjoys being evil until suddenly he causes the Fire of Fuyuki where he suddenly just snaps into his F/SN side(or what Urobuchi believes it is) on a dime.

There is alot of things you can complain about with Fate/Zero because yeah, it's basically just missing the fundamental point of Kinoku Nasu's world just to be the "Bad Ending".
 
greenwater55

greenwater55

Active member
Banned Member
Xhominid The Apex said:
Goddamn, I never expected someone to basically rant about Fate/Zero here...

Well it's a good thing you did it here as I would have asked the mod to remove it from the Nasuverse Threads otherwise.
I won't disagree because I actually agree that Fate/Zero is a TERRIBLE introduction to Fate and hell, to Kinoku Nasu's world, in general(There's a reason why Nasu declared it to be "another timeline" as soon as the first volume was released and why he stated later on that the prequel to F/SN only has the barest of blueprints to Fate/Zero.

Saber's entire characterization in Fate/Zero is so absolutely out of character, Nasu has even stated you have to see this variant and the F/SN variant as "two different characters" despite the fact that's fundamentally impossible(So in the simple case, Nasu is saying that she's basically not even the same person). To put it in the most simple example possible:
Urobuchi never got Saber as a character until well after F/Z was completed. This is why she acts so chivalrous and "honor-bound" when that was not a major part of her character(She explicitly winced and didn't want to announce herself when Sasaki Kojirou introduced himself in UBW and when he told her he did it just out of his own reasons, she didn't do anything else). If anything, she's exactly someone Kiritsugu should like by how he's presented in the show: Someone who will do anything that it takes to win, even dirtying her hands and just ganking someone if she has to. She obviously won't go to the depths Kiritsugu would go but she absolutely would kill a Master if it's the way she has to win(Which makes sense as Garden of Avalon, which goes over how fucked her reign was in terms of everyone wanting to fuck her over, has stated... which came out before F/Z).
Hell, the entire point of Saber getting diminished as a person and as a king is meant to somehow get her to her F/SN characterization... when that makes no sense because in Saber's perspective, she's literally dreaming before she dies(Meaning the difference between F/Z and F/SN is literally NON-EXISTENT from her perspective) meaning she can literally just dismiss it as a dying nightmare and ignore all of it nor would change anything about herself in such a small difference of time.

Kiritsugu is even worse as the anime tries and desperately takes alot of the grime and ultimately how much of a child Kiritsugu is by trying to more or less portray him as a badass who just gets broken due to how fucked the world is(This is genuinely a huge part of the issues in the anime). The entire problem with Kiritsugu is that he's supposed to be a man who never grew out of the tragedy that happened out of his village and ended up adopting the worst aspects of what we see from EMIYA and Shirou's philosophy(Which came from him) and was so hollow, Saber explicitly stated the only thing he ever told her outright... was to destroy the Grail. The anime and LN, in trying to make Kiritsugu far more sympathetic than he is(F/SN has it to where it's heavily implied Kiritsugu truly did betray the Einzberns and Irisviel in a very cruel fashion vs. F/Z where it was just him using the Grail for his own wish behind Irisviel's back who most likely did know it already), completely misses the point of his character.

But it's actually Kotomine who gets it just as bad that most people ignore. The entire point of Heaven's Feel is that Kotomine knew virtually from the jump that he was born twisted and that he HATED the fact he was born twisted. Him going through everything he did was an attempt to try and go past his own nature but constantly failed to the point he just planned on killing himself and went to go see his wife one last time. She sees that he's broken as shit and basically kills herself(she was already ill) because she believed his grief in her death would show that he's a good man at heart... but his actual feelings(That he wanted to kill her himself) just completely broke him.
The key difference in alot of what we see of Kotomine in F/SN is a man who comes off like he enjoys being evil and revels in it... actually DESPISES IT AND HIMSELF and his entire point in wanting Angra Mainyu to be born is to ultimately get his question asked of "If someone is born evil, how would they react to it?". In F/Z, Kotomine is basically treated as if he never knew this fundamental part of his character, Gilgamesh has to basically force him to be evil, he enjoys being evil until suddenly he causes the Fire of Fuyuki where he suddenly just snaps into his F/SN side(or what Urobuchi believes it is) on a dime.

There is alot of things you can complain about with Fate/Zero because yeah, it's basically just missing the fundamental point of Kinoku Nasu's world just to be the "Bad Ending".
Click to expand...
is still garbage kotomine is a garbage poorly overrated character Kiritsugu is a trash edgy emo crawling in my skin his past is emo edgy garbage and his ideals are fucking dumb also the rest of cast is garbage too a bunch edgy emo losers also no matter if nasu or urobuchi write something is fucking trash also the bad ending is just edgy fanfic trash like it was wrote by a edgy emo teen and i think anyone who thinks fate stay night and zero are smart mature deep philosophical or realistic are dumb and edgy and pretentious losers
 
greenwater55

greenwater55

Active member
Banned Member
Xhominid The Apex said:
Goddamn, I never expected someone to basically rant about Fate/Zero here...

Well it's a good thing you did it here as I would have asked the mod to remove it from the Nasuverse Threads otherwise.
I won't disagree because I actually agree that Fate/Zero is a TERRIBLE introduction to Fate and hell, to Kinoku Nasu's world, in general(There's a reason why Nasu declared it to be "another timeline" as soon as the first volume was released and why he stated later on that the prequel to F/SN only has the barest of blueprints to Fate/Zero.

Saber's entire characterization in Fate/Zero is so absolutely out of character, Nasu has even stated you have to see this variant and the F/SN variant as "two different characters" despite the fact that's fundamentally impossible(So in the simple case, Nasu is saying that she's basically not even the same person). To put it in the most simple example possible:
Urobuchi never got Saber as a character until well after F/Z was completed. This is why she acts so chivalrous and "honor-bound" when that was not a major part of her character(She explicitly winced and didn't want to announce herself when Sasaki Kojirou introduced himself in UBW and when he told her he did it just out of his own reasons, she didn't do anything else). If anything, she's exactly someone Kiritsugu should like by how he's presented in the show: Someone who will do anything that it takes to win, even dirtying her hands and just ganking someone if she has to. She obviously won't go to the depths Kiritsugu would go but she absolutely would kill a Master if it's the way she has to win(Which makes sense as Garden of Avalon, which goes over how fucked her reign was in terms of everyone wanting to fuck her over, has stated... which came out before F/Z).
Hell, the entire point of Saber getting diminished as a person and as a king is meant to somehow get her to her F/SN characterization... when that makes no sense because in Saber's perspective, she's literally dreaming before she dies(Meaning the difference between F/Z and F/SN is literally NON-EXISTENT from her perspective) meaning she can literally just dismiss it as a dying nightmare and ignore all of it nor would change anything about herself in such a small difference of time.

Kiritsugu is even worse as the anime tries and desperately takes alot of the grime and ultimately how much of a child Kiritsugu is by trying to more or less portray him as a badass who just gets broken due to how fucked the world is(This is genuinely a huge part of the issues in the anime). The entire problem with Kiritsugu is that he's supposed to be a man who never grew out of the tragedy that happened out of his village and ended up adopting the worst aspects of what we see from EMIYA and Shirou's philosophy(Which came from him) and was so hollow, Saber explicitly stated the only thing he ever told her outright... was to destroy the Grail. The anime and LN, in trying to make Kiritsugu far more sympathetic than he is(F/SN has it to where it's heavily implied Kiritsugu truly did betray the Einzberns and Irisviel in a very cruel fashion vs. F/Z where it was just him using the Grail for his own wish behind Irisviel's back who most likely did know it already), completely misses the point of his character.

But it's actually Kotomine who gets it just as bad that most people ignore. The entire point of Heaven's Feel is that Kotomine knew virtually from the jump that he was born twisted and that he HATED the fact he was born twisted. Him going through everything he did was an attempt to try and go past his own nature but constantly failed to the point he just planned on killing himself and went to go see his wife one last time. She sees that he's broken as shit and basically kills herself(she was already ill) because she believed his grief in her death would show that he's a good man at heart... but his actual feelings(That he wanted to kill her himself) just completely broke him.
The key difference in alot of what we see of Kotomine in F/SN is a man who comes off like he enjoys being evil and revels in it... actually DESPISES IT AND HIMSELF and his entire point in wanting Angra Mainyu to be born is to ultimately get his question asked of "If someone is born evil, how would they react to it?". In F/Z, Kotomine is basically treated as if he never knew this fundamental part of his character, Gilgamesh has to basically force him to be evil, he enjoys being evil until suddenly he causes the Fire of Fuyuki where he suddenly just snaps into his F/SN side(or what Urobuchi believes it is) on a dime.

There is alot of things you can complain about with Fate/Zero because yeah, it's basically just missing the fundamental point of Kinoku Nasu's world just to be the "Bad Ending".
Click to expand...
also no matter which argument anyone to defend this garbage this whole franchise still is shit
 
Xhominid The Apex

Xhominid The Apex

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Shut up and take my money!
greenwater55 said:
is still garbage kotomine is a garbage poorly overrated character Kiritsugu is a trash edgy emo crawling in my skin his past is emo edgy garbage and his ideals are fucking dumb also the rest of cast is garbage too a bunch edgy emo losers also no matter if nasu or urobuchi write something is fucking trash also the bad ending is just edgy fanfic trash like it was wrote by a edgy emo teen and i think anyone who thinks fate stay night and zero are smart mature deep philosophical or realistic are dumb and edgy and pretentious losers
Click to expand...

I mean I never believed the Fate Franchise is meant to be smart, mature, deep, philosophical or realistic... but if that's what you are looking for in most franchises, I think you will be sadly lacking pretty damn hard.

greenwater55 said:
also no matter which argument anyone to defend this garbage this whole franchise still is shit
Click to expand...

I mean... that's your opinion so whatever.
 
King of time

King of time

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greenwater55 said:
still trash kotomine is trash, overrated character Kiritsugu is trashy, edgy emo crawling under my skin, his past is edgy emo trash and his ideals are stupid, the rest of the cast is also trash, a bunch of edgy losers no problem either Nasu or urobuchi wrote something trashy and the bad ending is just an edgy trash fanfic as written by an edgy emo teenager and i think anyone who thinks that fate stays the night and zero are intelligent, deeply philosophical or practical adults are stupid losers, sharp and arrogant
Click to expand...
greenwater55 said:
Also, no matter how much anyone defends this trash, this entire franchise is still shit
Click to expand...
So you mean no matter how many people put words in your mouth, you still keep talking like that. :tiredpepe
 
Darth Nihilus

Darth Nihilus

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Mr. Money Bags Shut up and take my money!
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Cubey

Cubey

The Formality
After that retarded argument with red I had on nf where he basically proved he couldn’t prove a point and then apologized later in pm, I developed a grudge against fate. But slowly but surely it’s worn off. I think fate/zero is one of the better installments in the franchise as it features waver and Iskandar, Lancelot going ham on Gilgamesh and arturia, etc. I’d say I dislike heavens feel more because of shinji being an irredeemable rapist.

Also there’s various other spin-offs and despite what many users here may think I do believe we will get a faithful fate/prototype (original) anime or something eventually without the gay genderbender bs.
 
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