Golden Frieza vs Orange Piccolo

[Bob74h]

Gas didn’t even say it was new wtf are you talking about

huh he transformed again? What's his dumb hair now?

He's getting a new form, it's pretty much directly stated

 

[Gordo]

huh he transformed again? What's his dumb hair now?

He's getting a new form, it's pretty much directly stated

“Another form” is not a new form, it’s literally just another form Gas and the others haven’t seen yet

also Gohan Blanco isn’t even replacing UI in hair color, his hair isn’t actually white it’s gray

 

[NostalgiaFan]

Yeah nothing says Cell Max is weak just because he has a specific weak spot that Gotanks exploited which still did nothing overall besides annoy him in the end. We know Gamma 1 and 2 are at least as strong as Blue forms Goku and Vegeta, whether that includes Ultimate blue and Kaioken mix blue we do not know but considering how effortlessly Orange Piccolo beat Gamma 2 without any damage from tanking his attacks I'd say he is at least on par if not stronger than Ultimate blue Vegeta and Kaioken Blue Goku which should give him the victory over Gold Freiza.

 

[Gordo]

Toriyama actually thinks Orange Piccolo is on par with regular Blue Goku and Vegeta (which means Piccolo was wrong about the Gammas being as strong as Goku and Vegeta)

imo he’s not as strong as Kaioken/SSBE even if he were stronger than Blue

but I think Freeza loses to Piccolo either way

 

[NostalgiaFan]

Toriyama actually thinks Orange Piccolo is on par with regular Blue Goku and Vegeta (which means Piccolo was wrong about the Gammas being as strong as Goku and Vegeta)

imo he’s not as strong as Kaioken/SSBE even if he were stronger than Blue

Source? Not to mention how would that mean Gamma 1 and 2 are not as strong as Goku and Vegeta the last time Piccolo met them? They most likely got stronger after Broly you know.

 

[Gordo]

Source? Not to mention how would that mean Gamma 1 and 2 are not as strong as Goku and Vegeta the last time Piccolo met them? They most likely got stronger after Broly you know.

outside of Ultra Instinct (which only Goku has), Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form in Toriyama’s head (he didn’t come up with Omen/Kaioken Blue/SSBE)

Also Ultimate Piccolo was around the Gammas level, but Toriyama seems to think that wasn’t enough to be on par with the Saiyans until Orange

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Not really, Vegeta cant be beat by saibaman like he kills 60 as a kid for training
Yamcha got first got restrained showing physical power by the saibaman before blowing up ending them both

Even if you look at that same fight, chaozu with his suicide attack did no better then chaozu who was getting slammed into the back of a mountain
Same goes with angry gohan versus nappa or tien versus nappa. Tenshinhan's suicide attack did zero damage to nappa


Tenshinhan did the whole, Shin kikoho thing versus semi perfect cell but that's more of a outlier considering how badly 17 manhandled the triclops

Yamcha didn't know it was still alive he slipped up and ended getting killed by it proving my point

Chaotzu and Tien case they were just too weak and Z were more consistent on the whole Power Gap shit than Super

even Tien Cell thing was moreso Kepping Cell At bay than anything not really an outlier as tien just had to made sure cell couldn't do shit until Tien was done

Frost demons can survive in space and being torn apart to extreme degrees eg king cold talking with a gaping hole in his chest and a freeza with half of his body just floating around in space.
The fact, he was still conscious from broly's beatings shows that it was not enough to knock him out

once again means nothing we seen frieza get knocked out by Jiren and Toppo before so its not like its impossible to put him out

The same flim still hyped up jiren as a relevant threat so pretty sure their sticking with broly and jiren's GoD's portrayals.
Beerus not being scared proves nothing, he was not scared of goku despite talking how he's so great in the moro fight

the point is Beerus didn't show amazement over Broly power last film using oh well he didn't sense gohan power mean nothing cause the

Also Ultimate Piccolo was around the Gammas level, but Toriyama seems to think that wasn’t enough to be on par with the Saiyans until Orange

the last time Piccolo saw the blue duo was the Broly film so orange being on Par with Current Blue goku and vegeta wouldn't be an issue nor take away AT statement

 

[Claudio Swiss]

so at the leas the Gammas should be around Broly film SSJB level
Current SSJB Goku and Vegeta are different game

 

[NostalgiaFan]

outside of Ultra Instinct (which only Goku has), Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form in Toriyama’s head (he didn’t come up with Omen/Kaioken Blue/SSBE)

Also Ultimate Piccolo was around the Gammas level, but Toriyama seems to think that wasn’t enough to be on par with the Saiyans until Orange

I see nothing indicating he is only as strong as regular blue forms of Goku and Vegeta or that Gamma 1 and 2 are not SSB levels themselves. All it says is that his fighting strength rivals that of Goku and the others which at worst means he is on par with them in general which includes Kaioken and ultimate blue and at most means he could even be as strong as their ultra forms. Considering we see nothing indicating that Toriyama does not consider Ultimate Blue or kaioken exist I see no reason why they can't be put into the equation since it is still owned by Toei animation in the end, in fact much from the film has as much to do with Toei putting things in Toriyama did not so going only by Akria's word is faulty. I'd say until shown otherwise Orange Piccolo is at least stronger than regular SSB and on par with Ultimate and Kaioken but below Ultra forms.

 

[Gordo]

I see nothing indicating he is only as strong as regular blue forms of Goku and Vegeta or that Gamma 1 and 2 are not SSB levels themselves. All it says is that his fighting strength rivals that of Goku and the others which at worst means he is on par with them in general which includes Kaioken and ultimate blue and at most means he could even be as strong as their ultra forms. Considering we see nothing indicating that Toriyama does not consider Ultimate Blue or kaioken exist I see no reason why they can't be put into the equation since it is still owned by Toei animation in the end, in fact much from the film has as much to do with Toei putting things in Toriyama did not so going only by Akria's word is faulty. I'd say until shown otherwise Orange Piccolo is at least stronger than regular SSB and on par with Ultimate and Kaioken but below Ultra forms.

Piccolo never said the Gammas were as strong as Blue either, he just said “Goku and Vegeta” and never even mentioned their forms

Toriyama didn’t create those forms and he never references them in the movies or interviews. Super has 3 canons, and SSB is top dog for Goku and Vegeta in the movie canon

and apparently everyone else since Jiren and Merged Zamasu were only slightly stronger than Blue in Toriyama’s mind (in Zamasu’s case, Toyotaro had to beg him to change that idea to Vegetto vs Merged Zamasu instead)

 

[Gordo]

so at the leas the Gammas should be around Broly film SSJB level
Current SSJB Goku and Vegeta are different game

I guess you could say this

Piccolo isn’t stronger than current SH movie SSB, but he can be stronger than Broly movie SSB

Toriyama is the only who treats SSB with proper respect (and he’s the one who still calls it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan)

 

[Claudio Swiss]

I see nothing indicating he is only as strong as regular blue forms of Goku and Vegeta or that Gamma 1 and 2 are not SSB levels themselves. All it says is that his fighting strength rivals that of Goku and the others which at worst means he is on par with them in general which includes Kaioken and ultimate blue and at most means he could even be as strong as their ultra forms. Considering we see nothing indicating that Toriyama does not consider Ultimate Blue or kaioken exist I see no reason why they can't be put into the equation since it is still owned by Toei animation in the end, in fact much from the film has as much to do with Toei putting things in Toriyama did not so going only by Akria's word is faulty. I'd say until shown otherwise Orange Piccolo is at least stronger than regular SSB and on par with Ultimate and Kaioken but below Ultra forms.

plus Fanta mode Piccolo put up a decent fight against Cell Max granted Cell had his Arm fucked up by Gamma 2 but shouldn't suffered a massive lost of power and was strong enough to restrain Cell Max long enough for Gohan to deliver the killing blow

the way i see it's like this

Ultimate PIccolo-Blue tier but among the lower levels

Orange Piccolo-Could be higher in the Blue tier or even above it but at least the bar minimum rivals Current Goku and Vegeta Blue forms

 

[Claudio Swiss]

I guess you could say this

Piccolo isn’t stronger than current SH movie SSB, but he can be stronger than Broly movie SSB

Toriyama is the only who treats SSB with proper respect (and he’s the one who still calls it Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan)

tru
im happy piccolo is relevant after all these years

 

[Gordo]

tru
im happy piccolo is relevant after all these years

Toriyama even said “finally” lol

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Toriyama even said “finally” lol

motherfucker had all decade to do so
now he wants piccolo to be up there
better now than never

 

[Aurelian]

outside of Ultra Instinct (which only Goku has), Super Saiyan Blue is the next strongest form in Toriyama’s head (he didn’t come up with Omen/Kaioken Blue/SSBE)

Also Ultimate Piccolo was around the Gammas level, but Toriyama seems to think that wasn’t enough to be on par with the Saiyans until Orange

Rivals doesn't imply inferiority.

 

[NostalgiaFan]

Piccolo never said the Gammas were as strong as Blue either, he just said “Goku and Vegeta” and never even mentioned their forms

We have zero reason to think he was only talking about their base forms especially when they usually fight in blue.

Toriyama didn’t create those forms and he never references them in the movies or interviews. Super has 3 canons, and SSB is top dog for Goku and Vegeta in the movie canon

Wrong, We know shit was added to Superhero by Toei to the point it is why Gohan had his big power up since Superhero was originally going to focus more on Piccolo instead but Toei wanted Gohan to have more of a role. So to claim Toriyama's word alone is what matters is inadequate.

and apparently everyone else since Jiren and Merged Zamasu were only slightly stronger than Blue in Toriyama’s mind (in Zamasu’s case, Toyotaro had to beg him to change that idea to Vegetto vs Merged Zamasu instead)

Shit like this tells me Toriyama does not pay attention to his own fucking canon because Jiren was far above SSB Goku even when using Kaioken and even first using UI omen was not enough to beat Jiren. Merged Zamusu should have been instantly beaten by SSB Vegito yet he was tough enough to last longer than his transformation even with a Final Kamehameha. Sorry but Toriyama's word is becoming faulty with his own canon.

 

[Gordo]

Rivals doesn't imply inferiority.

Herms gave a proper translation and he said Piccolo was on par with them

he doesn’t have to be weaker but at the same time he’s not stronger (because Piccolo being stronger than them would have been a pretty big deal)

We have zero reason to think he was only talking about their base forms especially when they usually fight in blue.

Wrong, We know shit was added to Superhero by Toei to the point it is why Gohan had his big power up since Superhero was originally going to focus more on Piccolo instead but Toei wanted Gohan to have more of a role. So to claim Toriyama's word alone is what matters is inadequate.

Shit like this tells me Toriyama does not pay attention to his own fucking canon because Jiren was far above SSB Goku even when using Kaioken and even first using UI omen was not enough to beat Jiren. Merged Zamusu should have been instantly beaten by SSB Vegito yet he was tough enough to last longer than his transformation even with a Final Kamehameha. Sorry but Toriyama's word is becoming faulty with his own canon.

Toriyama probably doesn’t even care about the anime or manga

his views seem to align with the napkins notes he writes and Toei/Toyo changes the ideas for the anime/manga

-Super Saiyan God was a 6 to Beerus’s 10 and SSB is even stronger than God
-Golden Freeza wasn’t strong enough to beat SSB before his stamina issue kicked in
-Hit is weaker than SSB but makes up for it with his hax
-Merged Zamasu can’t beat 2 SSBs
-Jiren isn’t much stronger than a SSB but his skill makes it seem like he’s way stronger

all of these make SSB out to be hot shit, which the anime/manga changed because they realized that wouldn’t work for a long running series outside the films

 

[NostalgiaFan]

Herms gave a proper translation and he said Piccolo was on par with them

he doesn’t have to be weaker but at the same time he’s not stronger (because Piccolo being stronger than them would have been a pretty big deal)

Again, you have shown nothing stating he is not stronger than they were before the events in Broly as Saiyans always get stronger with Zankais and training between arcs and nothing saying he is only as strong as normal Blue. All it says is "obtained battle power on par with Goku and co." which implies in general he is as strong as Goku and Vegeta, that includes their higher forms which should count because Toriyama never intended for Gohan to get his power up either.

Toriyama probably doesn’t even care about the anime or manga

That's wrong, last I remember he was involved in the TOP and his ideas clashed with Toei at times. So he does care to an extant, not like it matters because Toei still had say in the making of Superhero with things like Gohan so you have to acknowledge that as well if you are going to use some arbitrary rule that says Ultimate Blue and Kaioken blue or UI does not exist.

his views seem to align with the napkins notes he writes and Toei/Toyo changes the ideas for the anime/manga

The fact Toei has say on the movie means their word and making of things has as much authority as Toriyama does.

 

[Gordo]

Toriyama created UI (white hair, not Omen) so that’s definitely canon and even mentioned in Broly, Goku is just locked out of it in the films

at this point, we’d have to wait for the anime/manga to include Orange Piccolo and see how they stack him up to Goku and Vegeta’s forms