Mad God Genis-Vell vs ToAru

[OtherGalaxy]

 

[Flowering Knight]

I'll say it again, there was no conversation on To Aru being universal, let alone multiversal until a couple of bots from Spergbattles showed up. They can call me wrong, say I "don't get the cosmology" as much as they want, but then post shit like Touma (who gets his ass beat by regular people) being able to beat Saitama because "lol To Aru, different normal, phases, etc".

It really says something when there's more evidence for shit like universal bleach than there is any of this. Hell, even if it was universal, it wouldn't matter because the original "debate" in the OP was settled the moment it started, with To Aru getting stomped to hell and back.

Personally? I'm thinking either a ban on To Aru altogether the same way folks like Yhwach and Gojo got banned. Since every thread so far that has used the verse has been cancerous as fuck.

 

[Flowering Knight]

By the way, Othinus still gets stomped by fighting game bosses.

Seethe.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

banning toaru is stupid imo


no series as a whole should ever be banned from a vs section, the point of this hobby is to figure out how to rationalize these things no matter how ridiculous they are

that said I don't see how universal toaru is somehow unbelievable. Beyond that? sure debate that to death but the original thread Rev had made (that got deleted for some reason) had more than enough evidence of that

and I'm not a toaru fan by any means couldnt give less of a fuck about that series but let's not be disingenuous just because it's a hated series in the obd

 

[Crimson Dragoon]

This thread is OG’s Luke Skywalker vs Rimuru

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

This thread is OG’s Luke Skywalker vs Rimuru

It's why he doesn't want it banned, he wants it to continue like this infinitely. His most successful topic

 

[OtherGalaxy]

it officially surpassed the original Genis Deception thread but it hasn't beaten my biggest shitstorm thread which was


"weakest character that can beat Yhwach"

 

[Cryso Agori]

For fucks sake guys, you cant just keep suddenly finding new information after we talk about shit for a few pages. Your confusing the hell out of me and everyone else here with this.

Look, finish making your respect threads for To Aru, until then I don't wanna see another thing for to aru showing up. Yall gotta get this shit together man

Heh, there's 51 volumes of Index alone with OT, NT, and GT it takes some time to find cosmology feats in all those books.

Alright I'll be real, these are BEYOND stretches, like going full into Googolplex levels and thinking anyone would ever try writing that number down.

Our Universe is infinitely expanding and far, far, far bigger than we ever thought it was, that doesn't mean it's Multiversal on it's own. So can you guys please stop with this shit? You are legit going into SB levels with trying so hard to push Multiversal To Aru despite no real standing on it.

You see I would've agreed with that before yesterday if @Irradiance hadn't piqued my interest. It would be a stretch if the words universe and world were used interchangeably, but from what @Irradiance said and what I've checked over this isn't the case.

Unlike how earth and phases are used interchangeably with world.

In both the Baka-Tsuki translations, and the official Yen Press translations universe is only really used when bringing up the big bang.

Even so, Kamijou did not feel any fear. The scale was simply too great. Apparently the universe was constantly expanding due to the big bang, but no one could concretely feel the universe expanding with their 5 senses.

(OT 18)

A fragment of an asteroid altered by tremendous heat was nothing more than a rock in and of itself. However, using high level formulas on it could become a key to guessing at the spread of the universe from the big bang.
Of course, he may not be able to grasp a perfect picture of it, but he could put together an inference that was exceedingly close to the truth.
The big bang at the start of the universe had yet to be proven to be a giant explosion. All that had been done was using giant ring-shaped particle accelerators to recreate and confirm the physical phenomena theorized to have happened after the explosion.

(OT 22)

Yen Press OT 22

Yen Press OT 18

When referring to the verse everywhere else the word world is used.

Yen Press Volume 1

Baka-Tsuki's version

Also, if Index, despite lacking magic power, were to join forces with a magician, she would have had no reason to run. That… was how dangerous Index’s memories were.

The 103,000 grimoires were on a completely different scope even in comparison to the possessing of a nuclear weapon.

All living creatures eventually die, an apple dropped from above would fall down, and 1+1=2. You would be able to take those kinds of natural and unchangeable rules of the world, destroy them, rewrite them, and create new ones. You could make 1+1=3, make an apple dropped from below fall up, and make all dead creatures eventually be revived.

Magicians called such beings Magic Gods.

Not the god of the demon plane,[12] but a magician who had thoroughly mastered magic to the point of entering the domain of God.

Magic God.

But, Stiyl could not feel any magic power in the boy in front of him.

He would be able to tell at a glance if he was a magician. The boy did not have the “scent” of someone from the same world as him.

Then, why?

And well New Testament 12 and 13.

New Testament 12

The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

New Testament 13

You checked the farthest reaches of the universe and all of the piled-up phases and you realized there was nothing new left.

This is about as explicit as you can get. Not only is the universe considered separate from phases and the world. But since the quote from NT 12 is listing things in ascending order. Starting with smallest going to largest means that the 'world' is larger than the 'universe' created from the big bang.

Hell, the universe is explicitly said to be expanding at relativistic time just like ours. But the world is considered larger.

Oh yeah, guess what I found.

The first ever volume of Toaru states grimoires holds knowledge of a different world.

“Don’t worry about it. This is for the best.” Index shook her head. “It would be wrong to get her any more involved. …And she can’t use any more magic.”

“?” Kamijou frowned.

“Grimoires are dangerous. Written in them are aberrant and uncommon knowledge as well as twisted laws that break the common laws of this world. Whether they’re for good or evil, those things are toxic in this world. Merely learning the knowledge of a ‘different world’ will destroy the brain of the one who learns it,” explained Index.

Kamijou tried to translate that in a way he understood.

(So is it like forcefully running a program that isn’t compatible with a computer’s OS?)

“My brain and spirit are protected by religious barriers, and magicians who attempt to exceed being human must exceed the boundaries of their own common knowledge to arrive at the desired state of mind that can almost be likened to a type of insanity. However, for a normal person from a barely religious country like Japan, it could all be over after just casting one more spell.”

Since parallel worlds don't exist I wonder what those 'different worlds' are.

Phases

Keep winning Japanese Suggs man.

 

[Cryso Agori]

but then post shit like Touma (who gets his ass beat by regular people) being able to beat Saitama because "lol To Aru, different normal, phases, etc".

Touma isn't beating Saitama that I agree with but everything else.

NT 9.

“Really?” asked Kamijou. “According to Ollerus, Imagine Breaker was created from the selfish hopes of all magicians. He said it is a reference point and restoration point they can use if they have twisted the world to the point that they don’t know how to fix it.”

“The man who names himself the Silver Star seems to have been attempting to directly tamper with the ‘pure world’ beyond all the filters…that is, the world of science that is unaffected by religion. …Honestly, you are quite fortunate to see this. Not even the Golden cabal of Europe that dreamed in Tibet was able to reach this point.”

Kamijou could not guess how much value this had.

If Index saw it, she might have felt differently.

But…

(She is the extreme form of one who creates. She forces unnecessary or mistaken gears into the world and that completely changes the scene before me.)

Kamijou Touma tightly clenched his right fist.

(That must mean Imagine Breaker is special to her. It destroys. It does the opposite of what a god does. This hand holds the possibility of erasing what is unnecessary. In that case, it should be possible to fix the gears that have been thrown out of order.)

Ollerus had said Imagine Breaker was the selfish dreams of all magicians.

If their twisting of the world produced a disadvantageous result, that reference point or restoration point could return it to normal or erase what was done.

OT 2.

Though Kamijou’s right hand was capable of destroying the world’s power, it was not a large problem. If the power returned to the soil like falling leaves, it rejoined the cycle of life in the form of destruction, perfectly natural. Before Index realized the Walking Church’s destruction, she had not realized how harmonious the hand was with nature.

NT 18.

“Imagine Breaker’s power is only noticeable when surrounded by people with supernatural powers. Kamijou Touma will not express his tendency toward conflict if no one needing help is within arm’s reach. …And yet you were able to make your presence perfectly known. Why was that? Isn’t it obvious? Because a stage covering western Tokyo was remade into an esper development institution that followed the perfect theory that would allow Kamijou Touma his greatest performance.”

NT 22

So…

“Coroooooonzoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon!!!!!!”

He finally exploded.

Kamijou Touma did not resist that torrent of power. In fact, he viewed it like a great wind as he ran straight toward the golden demon. From the very first move, he used his right fist: Imagine Breaker. No matter how absurdly powerful this being was…no, the further removed his opponent was from normal physical phenomena, the more vividly this boy’s power would manifest itself.

There was precedent.

There was the artificially-created Kazakiri Hyouka, there was Archangel Gabriel who had existed since time immemorial, and there was Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who had lurked in the depths of Academy City.

Angels and demons.

Those beings were so ridiculously beyond the normal that those words barely seemed to hold any weight at all. However. The further she was removed from ordinary physical risks such as metal pipes, knives, and guns, the more critical the damage Imagine Breaker could do to Great Demon Coronzon.

It was like a golden wind.

The hair seemed far too sinister and massive to have come from a human body, but the boy slipped through the gaps and finally arrived right in front of Coronzon.

He had no reason at all to hold back.

The author>you. Plus this shit been explained and repeated in multiple volumes, that's the reason why we say you guys don't understand shit.

This isn't something introduced out of nowhere, this is something explained and brought up in the middle of the series and doesn't contradict what is previously stated. It's called foreshadowing/worldbuilding. Not suddenly retconning shit. Because guess what, New Testament isn't the end of Toaru, it's continuing with Genesis Testament, which is still ongoing with 6 volumes out currently. And it started in 2020, only two years ago.

Toaru Majutsu no Index: Genesis Testament - Baka-Tsuki

www.baka-tsuki.org

You'd have a point if this was suddenly introduced in GT 6 but it wasn't. You guys act like Old Testament, New Testament, and Genesis Testament are separate series or something.

Spoiler: Also Touma might not even be a human but a dragon god, IB is just sealing his powers away.

Also, truthfully me and half the Toaru fandom think that Touma isn't even human. Like he has literal dragons in his arm that aren't a part of Imagine Breaker. And IB is said to be sealing them away.





Has the Invisible Thing which also isn't connected to Imagine Breaker or the dragons. And recreates Imagine Breaker after Fiamma absorbs it.



Hell in New Testament 22 Reverse Imagine Breaker literally dumps Touma and splits off from him. Becoming a fake copy of him known as Kamijou No Touma.

So what exactly had happened?

To understand that, we must change our viewpoint and move back in the timeline a bit.

“Ah, ahhh, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!???”

The sound of something bursting open sounded on the thick ice covering the sea between Great Britain and Ireland. This was just before the end of the war when everyone was focused on the Queen Britannia as it sank along with Coronzon and Aleister.

But something else entirely had been happening then.

It was a much smaller and more personal issue than something influencing the fate of nations or the entire world.

Particles of ice had blown up like a blizzard, so Index must not have been able to see what happened even while she dangled from the Bunny Gray balloon.

Kamijou Touma’s right arm had exploded at the shoulder.

Nothing external had caused this.

In fact, it was blown away from within by a power it could not contain.

“––––––!!”

The pain was too much to bear.

He had no idea what he was shouting as he held his torn right shoulder with his other hand, collapsed to the thick ice, and rolled around. The wallet and phone fell from his pocket, but he did not have it in him to pick them up. He was too busy making sure he did not bite his own tongue.

Even so, he could not bring himself to shut his eyes.

Something was happening in front of him.

(What the…?)

It was his right arm.

It was floating in that empty white space like it was defying gravity.

No, this was not all that strange. He had seen it several times before. He had just always turned a blind eye because it had always worked out in his favor, so he could not start calling it creepy as soon as it fell out of his control.

The end of his detached right shoulder twisted while dripping with red blood.

No.

There was a small clicking sound.

(What is that?)

Just as he wondered that, a strange artificial-looking triangular prism appeared about fifteen centimeters away from the bloody end of the detached right shoulder. The sides were divided into keyboard-like squares that were moving in and out all on their own.

There was no way he could ignore this.

That strange object really was there in front of him.

“Kazakir—no, this is different!” he shouted.

The triangular prism shined with a pale platinum light and he grimaced.

It happened silently.

The triangular prism gained a head and a right arm past the shoulder.

It all fit together perfectly and resulted in an identical boy standing there in front of him.

This went well beyond wondering where this other boy had come from or how he had appeared here.

Was there no way to explain this using nothing more than biological science?

And the monster was wearing the exact same clothing that Kamijou was.

“What…?”

He could only just stare blankly up at him.

No, staring blankly did not qualify as choosing an action.

With his right hand gone, there was nothing at all Kamijou Touma could do. He could only say one thing to the identical pointy-haired high school boy.

“What are you!?”

“Imagine Breaker is just one card in your deck? You’re the one in control?”

There was obvious mockery in his voice.

A cracking sound shook the air.

A shocking pink light flashed at the corner of his mouth and an emerald one at the corner of his eye. They were pretty colors, but did it mean he was unsure how to process the parts that were not quite the body’s surface but not quite inside either?

And he used that extremely lifelike right hand to calmly pick up the phone that had fallen on the thick ice.

“Don’t make me laugh, you snot-nosed brat. Once this right hand’s taken from you, what have you got left? Who would ever accept you as Kamijou Touma now?”

There was a sound like long, wet hair splatting against a concrete wall.

Kamijou Touma’s right shoulder should have had nothing attached, but sky-blue threads twisted around to fill that empty space. They formed what looked like powerful muscles and quickly grew to the silhouette of a human arm. Once it was complete, he felt a lessening in the intense pain causing sparks in his mind. The other boy had grabbed the phone, but Kamijou used this new arm to reach for the wallet at his feet.

(An arm?)

But something scared him more than the bizarre visual.

It frightened him that his body was accepting this situation before his mind just because the pain was gone. The ordinary decision to only believe what you saw with your own two eyes could bare its fangs when you saw something truly unbelievable and hard to accept.

The thing he saw here was a part of his body.

It was not something to be rejected.

(This psychedelic thing is… my arm???)

He did not have time to question it.

With another bursting sound, the sky-blue arm opened back up like a giant maw. And it worked to swallow up Kamijou Touma himself instead of the enemy before his eyes.

He no longer had anything to stop it.

Imagine Breaker had gone to the other boy.

“How can you call yourself Kamijou Touma without this?”

That other boy grinned while clenching and reopening those fingers.

As if to show off the power that should have belonged to Kamijou Touma.

“It’s time you learned firsthand what happens once it’s gone.”

And Touma's right hand is replaced by Dragon Shell, which allows him to turn into a dragon.

And his own cousin's name is Tatsugami Otohime which literally translates to Dragon God Princess.

Otohime's surname means "Dragon God or King" and her first name means "youngest princess".

So Touma probably ain't even a human but some sort of Dragon God.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

You see I would've agreed with that before yesterday if @Irradiance hadn't piqued my interest. It would be a stretch if the words universe and world were used interchangeably, but from what @Irradiance said and what I've checked over this isn't the case.

Unlike how earth and phases are used interchangeably with world.

In both the Baka-Tsuki translations, and the official Yen Press translations universe is only really used when bringing up the big bang.

Okay and? We have had plenty of times where the Servantverse's Shining Blue Galaxy was referred to as a Galaxy and Universe as well as Bel Maana being a Galaxy AND a Universe at once, that doesn't mean it's just one or the other.
Secondly, are you certain that those translations are even 100% sound? Fan Translations have been known to become REALLY shit or primarily confusing as hell because of that same deal.
Because again, we have had that same problem with alot of LN's and VN's, including with some shit like either FGO's early translations, Bleach and CFYOW and so on and so forth.

The author>you. Plus this shit been explained and repeated in multiple volumes, that's the reason why we say you guys don't understand shit.

The Author doesn't take precedence dude, that's the entire point of Feats > Statements. The author ONLY takes precedence when the feats in question primarily fit with what we have seen with the feats in question(i.e. If someone dodges a Lightning Bolt but it's iffy due to not having an explanation of whether it's real or not and the author states it's a real Lightning Bolt, then we take it as true).

The big problem with Touma is that alot of his abilities doesn't even translate well into VS. topics or even his own series consistently(He has to constantly run away from some Espers as they can figure him out easily and murder him... but then, he can suddenly take on characters like Clarissa or Othinus because of ONE Magical Artifact that gives them the same silly boost and that suddenly amps his strength to "their level"? This type of shit makes Kirito blush) so it's hard to wonder why you will have people that don't really believe that somehow he'll be "ultra effective" against beings that are beyond his paygrade because "IB scales to who he fights" when it never did that shit against people like Izzard who literally makes his Illusions real through Reality Warping or Accelerator.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Okay and? We have had plenty of times where the Servantverse's Shining Blue Galaxy was referred to as a Galaxy and Universe as well as Bel Maana being a Galaxy AND a Universe at once, that doesn't mean it's just one or the other.
Secondly, are you certain that those translations are even 100% sound? Fan Translations have been known to become REALLY shit or primarily confusing as hell because of that same deal.
Because again, we have had that same problem with alot of LN's and VN's, including with some shit like either FGO's early translations, Bleach and CFYOW and so on and so forth.

I’ve DM’d the main translator of the Toaru novels on twitter.

User:Js06 - Baka-Tsuki

www.baka-tsuki.org

So you and me are gonna have to wait on that unfortunately.

Secondly.

The big problem with Touma is that alot of his abilities doesn't even translate well into VS. topics or even his own series consistently(He has to constantly run away from some Espers as they can figure him out easily and murder him..

Yeah this misconception needs to stop. Touma is not useless against normal people. Hell I can’t remember anytime he actually needed to run against fodder espers except for volume 1 of OT.

Case in point. New Testament 11.

Toaru Majutsu no Index:NT Volume11 - Baka-Tsuki

www.baka-tsuki.org

Which is more like a side story cause it’s an arc that follows Misaki instead of Touma and flashbacks to Touma’s past before he lost his memories.

(That’s the intersection where I first met him, isn’t it?)

Those two people with no previous connection had bumped into each other there.

Their paths had crossed.

It was not a particularly beautiful location and it had not been the kind of lovely meeting seen in dramas.

However, it had been a special event for the girl named Shokuhou Misaki.

Even if it had all come to an end and their paths would never cross again, it had been important enough to strongly influence what had happened to her from then on.



Shokuhou Misaki still remembered even now.

That was when she had first met the pointy-haired boy named Kamijou Touma.

That time in August of the previous year was a strong contender for the happiest period of her life.

In this novel PastTouma and PastMisaki are chased by Deadlock a group of Level 0’s that hate Misaki and Level 5. Since there level 0’s Touma shouldn’t be getting any boost from IB.

“Pant pant!!”

Kamijou Touma panted like an exhausted stray dog as he ran through the hot Academy City night.

He was not alone. His hand held the hand of Shokuhou Misaki who wore a brand new summer uniform.

Technically, she was the one being targeted.

They ran past a sign at the base of a wind turbine notifying them of a recent murder. The two of them took a turn and left the main road.

“W-wait! Why would you go out of your way to enter an empty alley!?”

“Given their speed, a wide street is more dangerous! When they’re moving that fast, they shouldn’t be able to make tight turns!!”

That idea may not have been wrong, but their pursuer’s abilities exceeded their expectations.

The words on the previous sign returned to Shokuhou’s mind.

There had been a murder recently and a single mistake here could give the two of them a similar fate.

She heard the sound of wheels burning the ground below them.

Their pursuer was a boy in a red riding suit and a full-face helmet. However, he had small inline skate wheels attached in over fifty places: bottoms of the feet, knees, elbows, shoulders, wrists, waist, back, chest, etc.

On top of that, he had two tiny jet engines on his back. They were twenty centimeters wide and fifty-five centimeters long.

The pursuer charged toward them while generally leaning forward like a speed skater.

He did not do anything as sensible as kick off the ground.

It would be more accurate to say he kicked off the wall.

“Dammit!!”

He exceeded two hundred kilometers per hour. That incredible speed rivalled a roller coaster and he would temporarily change his field to the walls or even the ceiling.

Touma is skilled enough to help Misaki run away despite the speed the deadlock member is moving.

Let it be known that Misaki is canonically very unathletic.





And deadlock guy has a rocket launcher.

Even a simple tackle from a human-sized mass would be a fatal impact at that speed.

And yet the boy held something resembling a bazooka over his shoulder. It was actually an explosive-driven pile bunker.

If they crossed paths, Shokuhou and Kamijou would be taken out in a single strike.

Altogether, the equipment was known as Queen Diver. True to the initial impression it gave, the weapon system had been created from the ground-up to crush Shokuhou specifically. Its overwhelming speed let one charge in before she could control you. The concept was to kill a Level 5 even if it meant your own destruction.

And there helmets block Misaki’s ability.

Shokuhou swung around her TV remote regardless, but that method had a certain weakness. Her personal rule was to divide up her too-powerful Mental Out ability in order to make it easier to use. And her personal rule required her to aim the remote at her target.

When the enemy was moving around and around at high speed, her targeting was too slow.

Yet even when she was certain she had aimed in time, the enemy’s movements did not fully stop.

(Does that helmet detect the abnormal brain wave ability and switch control of the suit over to a program!?)

Mental Out may have been the most powerful mental ability, but even it did not work on pure machines or non-human animals. This equipment had clearly been made specifically to target her.

(Beyond the issue of strength, this is just a poor match. And I don’t have time to remove “that limiter” when he’s moving around so fast. They went out of their way to create a weapon with absolutely no use beyond its ability to kill me!!)

Despite this Touma is able to stop him.

While she thought and clenched her teeth, Kamijou snatched the remote from her hand.

“Wai-…”

Before she could protest, the pointy-haired boy had thrown the remote at the red riding suit as hard as he could.

This was a complete waste, much like throwing a gun without bothering to pull the trigger, but it was still effective.

As soon as the remote hit the full-face helmet, the riding suit lost its balance while clinging to the wall and trying to pierce through Shokuhou’s body. And once he lost control, that pursuer riding the rails of an invisible roller coaster became quite fragile.

He flipped over and fell to the ground.

Beyond that, he plowed through everything on the ground at two hundred kilometers per hour. He passed by Shokuhou and Kamijou and crashed into an old bike and some trash cans left in the alley.

That was when Shokuhou heard an explosion and saw orange light burst out.

“You’re kidding.”

Even Kamijou, the one who had supposedly defeated the pursuer, was so dumbfounded that he stopped running.

“Did the shock of the fall mess with the jet engine!? Just how dangerous are these things they’re relying on!?”

It did seem they had put in the bare-minimum of safety measures.

They heard the sound of a shaken soda opening but magnified several dozen times. Something like white steam surrounded the skin-tight Queen Diver suit. It was likely some sort of incombustible gas.

The pursuer had probably been wrapped in flames for less than ten seconds, but the burning temperature of the jet fuel had been extraordinary. It was not clear what material the suit was made of, but it might have melted onto his skin like cheese.

Then they get surrounded by more Deadlock members.

More Queen Divers were approaching.

With the unpleasant sound of their wheels scraping along the ground, they blocked the boy and girl’s path in front, behind, and even above.

They all wore red riding suits and full-face helmets, but their silhouettes suggested the group contained both boys and girls. Based on their heights and shoulder-widths, there was a large range of ages as well.

Kamijou held Shokuhou’s hand while giving an annoyed yell.

“He was with you, wasn’t he!? Aren’t you worried about him at all!?”

“We won’t let first aid get in our way,” replied a male voice. “We have something more important to deal with.”

They all hid their faces behind helmets that blocked mental attacks to an unknown extent and they all aimed their explosive-driven pile bunkers at the boy and girl.

“Death to the Level 5.”

A deluge of noise surrounded them as the pursuers prepared their weapons.

The human malice created a cage more frightening than the weapons.

“Death to the Level 5.”

It sounded like the ritual of some strange cult.

Their resentful voices would overpower anyone who heard them but showed just how misguided they were.

“Death to the Level 5 who has taken everything from us.”

Explanation on Deadlock and the Queen Diver suits.

The current Shokuhou Misaki recalled those events while facing the alley entrance in the chilly wind.

It might have sounded absurd, but even outside this city, it was common to find attractions where one raced down a slope in a wheel-covered riding suit or to find special-made suits that used inline skates and a jet engine on the back to reach over one hundred kilometers per hour.

That group had combined a few such things and added the high stability and handling of electronic control to create the weapon known as the Queen Diver.

The name of that red riding suit group came to her mind.

Deadlock.

The group using that English word as a name could be described as the students whose powers development had reached a standstill and would not progress any further for some reason.

They belonged to a great number of different schools and years.

Some were genuine high-class ladies and some were delinquent boys.

The ideology that bound Deadlock was shockingly simple and the actions they actually took went beyond shocking.

Despite being surrounded Touma and Misaki were able to escape.

Shokuhou set foot in that alley for the first time in a long while.

She normally never used such areas (and she could not let any of the Tokiwadai students know about somewhere that made her as nervous as this), but she was in the mood today.

The abandoned bike and trash cans were of course gone, but the general location had not changed much.

Halfway down the alley, she stopped and looked straight up.

“Yes, yes. It was right here.”

The sky spread out while confined to the shape of that narrow alley and a rusty old emergency staircase invaded the space of that limited sky.

There was a small chain-link door at the entrance to the staircase, but she could easily climb over it if she ignored her short skirt.

While treading on each red and rusty step that could break through at any moment, she climbed the emergency staircase.

She was not interested in any of the doors on the way up.

She was on her way to the roof of the small multi-tenant building.

Beyond that was the final location.

The final location she and Kamijou Touma had run to.

And start jumping from rooftop to rooftop. It’s only because of Misaki’s unathleticism that Touma and her was caught.

They had jumped from building to building, rooftop to rooftop.

But having to bring along Shokuhou Misaki and the fluttering short skirt of her brand new summer uniform had to have been a great detriment to Kamijou Touma. She was willing to admit it now: she was terribly unathletic. During the athletic test in April of that year, her awful results had led her to manipulate the memories of everyone around her. She had to go to the great effort of working up her courage and then taking a running start to cross the “ravines” that were not even a meter wide, so Deadlock and their Queen Diver suits naturally caught up in no time.

Touma and Misaki were surrounded by more than 30 deadlock members.

They were surrounded on every side.

Deadlock must have been communicating by phone or something because more riding suit students arrived along different routes. More than thirty of them had gathered on the roof. Shokuhou could try to use her remote to have them take each other out and Kamijou could clench his right fist, but if Deadlock charged forward while prepared to be caught in a jet engine explosion, the two of them would not escape unharmed.

All the Deadlock members have pile bunkers and willing to kill themselves just to kill Misaki.

The riding suit boy readily prepared the pile bunker on his shoulder and viewed Kamijou Touma as a clear enemy, but his voice showed he recognized him as a fellow human.

“But that is also why you should wonder where that emotion comes from. It’s wrong to die for something like this. If you know that but still stand to protect her, something doesn’t add up. So what created that distortion? Think about who motivated you to stand there and why.”

Shokuhou Misaki was certain that clinched it.

No matter how much she tried to deny it, her words would never reach Kamijou Touma. She had not even rid herself of doubt, so her words would never get through to someone else.

And if he abandoned her, it was all over.

She could control the Queen Divers with her remote, but if they charged toward her at two hundred kilometers per hour from thirty different directions, would even swinging around two remotes be enough? Even if she had them take each other out, it would not be easy. They were set to switch to program control once she took over.

Deadlock was prepared to die as long as they could defeat Mental Out.

Even if a head-on collision at that speed would crush their bodies and even if they risked a large explosion if that JP-5 jet fuel leaked out, it was all worth it to them if they could defeat this Level 5.

Thus, it was over.

She would either be torn apart by a pile bunker or roasted in a jet fuel explosion. Whatever happened, her slim chances of survival vanished once Kamijou Touma gave up on her.

That was the future that should have awaited her.

Touma however literally charges at Deadlock while having like 30 piles bunkers pointed at him.

“Then I hope you’re prepared, you damn clown.”

“You bet. And I hope you guys are willing to put your life on the line and come at me with everything you’ve got.”

With a great roar, the boys and girls of Deadlock rushed in from thirty different directions while wielding their explosive-driven pile bunkers.

They had recognized their opponent’s broad-mindedness but would still kill him.

It was like the one-on-one clash between well-known commanders during an ancient battle.

That was the form this battle took.

And he won.

The current Shokuhou Misaki let out a small breath.

“Sigh.”

That ended it all.

Since she and Kamijou Touma lived to this day, it went without saying who had won that fight against the student group named Deadlock.

There’s also the Biohacker story where PastTouma fights assassins and genetically modified animals.

Edit: Hell read my thread. https://onelastforum.com/threads/to...s-discussion-analysis-thread.1410/#post-62686

First volume alone has multiple supersonic reaction feats for Touma and has possibly ftl feats for him depending on if you believe Misaka’s lightning is lightspeed or lightspeed dragon breath.
I asked someone to Calc Dragon Breath’s speed in the Calc thread but no one did, so imma just gonna go with lightspeed cause it cut down a satellite in space and is compared to a laser and light.

 

[Irradiance]

For fucks sake guys, you cant just keep suddenly finding new information after we talk about shit for a few pages. Your confusing the hell out of me and everyone else here with this.

Look, finish making your respect threads for To Aru, until then I don't wanna see another thing for to aru showing up. Yall gotta get this shit together man

I mean, I'm quoting new information because I didn't know the information were relevant before. Not knowing what the standards are I wouldn't even have included them in a respect thread lol

Honestly, can I petition that some "senior member" or whatever writes down what the exact definitions for "universe", "multiverse", "megaverse" etc. are and what the criteria for reaching universal, universal+, multiversal, multiversal+ etc. level of power are? Some of that is on the OBD wiki but who knows if that is up to date and that kind of shit should really be publicly documented somewhere. It sucks to debate the terms without knowing what the fuck we take them to mean exactly.

 

[Rev97]

Screw it, I swore off this website but this threads been great to watch. Especially thinking back to my now deleted Respect Thread where I was both incredibly simple in the explanation and pretty conservative yet still it became a shitshow off nothing, unsurprisingly by some of the people that requested it no less.

But to add on to what’s now being argued, which is that the world of Index is blatantly far bigger and much more than a single universe even with what we know today, you’ve got the countless Phases. The number of which vary from either billions to an infinite amount depending on the scan you use.

The Phase of Hidden World of the Magic Gods alone proves this. It’s infinite in scope to where even the slightest gaps of go on infinitely. Worth mentioning Crowley destroyed this Phase too.

World varies in context as mentioned and notably, World in some cases refers to something more than universe based on the sequential order in this quote:

Spoiler

The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

You also got a spell of Crowley that sends Coronzon in the space between Phases

Spoiler

“This is not thy place, but I forbid thee to depart!! I shall now intentionally enact a failed exorcism. Great Demon Coronzon, return to thy rightful world while thy power is torn into the almighty number of 11!!”

Magician Aleister Crowley really did seem to be coughing up blood as she yelled the words.
If you thought of a summoning circle like a warp gate from cheap science fiction, then what would happen if you threw someone into a malfunctioning gate and entered the coordinates using a staticky signal? The power to forcibly send her back between phases would slice Coronzon apart like a wire through a hardboiled egg.

“Oh!”

Fearsome sparks exploded out.

And not figuratively. An orange light really did scatter all around her.

“Oooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!???”

It was a lot like pushing a human body through a noodle maker. Coronzon’s silhouette vanished into the bright light as her entire body was torn apart and forced into a total of eleven gates.

That Great Demon never should have succumbed to human magic, but she cried out in agony as she was torn to pieces. It was not that this attack held a dreadful amount of power. This only worked because she had been reduced to a level where normal magic could kill her.

There’s also Curtana Second that cuts through the universe into other dimensions and worlds, these being Phases as the pure world is used as an example

Spoiler

That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully unified the three factions and four
regions of the United Kingdom and that could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's
power while on UK land.

If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase…for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom.

Could the cosmology in this series be explained better? Could it be less convoluted? Sure, but it’s pretty easy to follow if you read the series. It’s not rocket science like some here are treating it.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

multiversal+ and megaversal+ are pretty clear cut but we had a lot of wildly different interpretations of universe+ in this thread

our cosmic system in general, needs work

 

[Masterblack06]

I mean, I'm quoting new information because I didn't know the information were relevant before. Not knowing what the standards are I wouldn't even have included them in a respect thread lol

Honestly, can I petition that some "senior member" or whatever writes down what the exact definitions for "universe", "multiverse", "megaverse" etc. are and what the criteria for reaching universal, universal+, multiversal, multiversal+ etc. level of power are? Some of that is on the OBD wiki but who knows if that is up to date and that kind of shit should really be publicly documented somewhere. It sucks to debate the terms without knowing what the fuck we take them to mean exactly.

Im going to make a meta thread specifically for this purpose so that we can nail down whats what and future proof the whole thing for the future.

Screw it, I swore off this website but this threads been great to watch. Especially thinking back to my now deleted Respect Thread where I was both incredibly simple in the explanation and pretty conservative yet still it became a shitshow off nothing, unsurprisingly by some of the people that requested it no less.

But to add on to what’s now being argued, which is that the world of Index is blatantly far bigger and much more than a single universe even with what we know today, you’ve got the countless Phases. The number of which vary from either billions to an infinite amount depending on the scan you use.

The Phase of Hidden World of the Magic Gods alone proves this. It’s infinite in scope to where even the slightest gaps of go on infinitely. Worth mentioning Crowley destroyed this Phase too.

World varies in context as mentioned and notably, World in some cases refers to something more than universe based on the sequential order in this quote:

Spoiler

The earth, the universe, and the world were nothing but a giant balloon. And a Magic God was a potted cactus wobbling on top of the balloon. That would cause anyone to panic. Once one learned of its existence, they would be worried around the clock that the cactus would eventually topple over as it moved freely about.

You also got a spell of Crowley that sends Coronzon in the space between Phases

Spoiler

“This is not thy place, but I forbid thee to depart!! I shall now intentionally enact a failed exorcism. Great Demon Coronzon, return to thy rightful world while thy power is torn into the almighty number of 11!!”

Magician Aleister Crowley really did seem to be coughing up blood as she yelled the words.
If you thought of a summoning circle like a warp gate from cheap science fiction, then what would happen if you threw someone into a malfunctioning gate and entered the coordinates using a staticky signal? The power to forcibly send her back between phases would slice Coronzon apart like a wire through a hardboiled egg.

“Oh!”

Fearsome sparks exploded out.

And not figuratively. An orange light really did scatter all around her.

“Oooooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!???”

It was a lot like pushing a human body through a noodle maker. Coronzon’s silhouette vanished into the bright light as her entire body was torn apart and forced into a total of eleven gates.

That Great Demon never should have succumbed to human magic, but she cried out in agony as she was torn to pieces. It was not that this attack held a dreadful amount of power. This only worked because she had been reduced to a level where normal magic could kill her.

There’s also Curtana Second that cuts through the universe into other dimensions and worlds, these being Phases as the pure world is used as an example

Spoiler

That sword was an extreme spiritual item that fully unified the three factions and four
regions of the United Kingdom and that could draw on a portion of Archangel Michael's
power while on UK land.

If a qualified user released that power even for a moment, a swing of the sword would sever all dimensions at once and giant ruined materials would be created along the line of the slash.

Yes, all dimensions.

Assuming it could hit, that extraordinary power could penetrate the barrier between worlds and kill a being lurking in a different phase…for example, Holy Guardian Angel Aiwass who stayed in the layer of physical laws at the very bottom.

Could the cosmology in this series be explained better? Could it be less convoluted? Sure, but it’s pretty easy to follow if you read the series. It’s not rocket science like some here are treating it.

Too late now dawg. We moving on now

 

[Cryso Agori]

@Masterblack06

proof from the translators mouth. Universe and world are different and the universe is smaller than the world.

 

[Cryso Agori]

Okay that mention didn't work @Xhominid The Fool

Evidence that the universe is separate and smaller than the world.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

... Then that shit just raises even more questions at this point...

 

[Cryso Agori]

... Then that shit just raises even more questions at this point...

Not really, it actually explains shit instead of bringing up questions.

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Not really, it actually explains shit instead of bringing up questions.

How does that do so in terms of VS. debates rather than throw the entire series out by having their "World" be bigger than their "Universe"?
Again, it raises more questions, not solve them.