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OBD Convo #58: We are the Heroes of Justice

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My problem with Shinji is not that he reacts like a teenager to being a Mecha protag, my problem is the way the tv show ruined his character development, set him back to square one, and Anno refusing to give him a proper conclusion, ignoring everything else, making the movie more of a clusterfuck as a fuck you to fans because he was going through issues, and only after decades with the Rebuild films did he bother to give him any real ending which despite how much fanboys who think the original ending was "perfect" will bitch and whine about, is better than what he was given years ago.
Evangelion is not so secretly Anno's very own form of therapy for himself. While End of Evangelion was bleak as hell, Shinji's lowest point (so far anyway. Rebuild had him sort of, kind of, cause another apocalypse and almost cause a third?), the kid ultimately did choose to reject instrumentality even though he briefly gave in completely.

Rebuild having a more fulfilling ending is mostly Anno being in a mentally healthier place than anything.
I just rewatched First Blood and finally saw Part 2 for the first time and even outside of the ending of First Blood having John Rambo breaking down and crying from PTSD, the 2nd had him almost weeping over a girl he fell in love with dying. That's a grown ass man trained into being the most elite military unit of his time and even when he shows his emotions I have zero problems with. My problem is when the story refuses to have its character grow out of being a crybaby like with Deku who cries at the drop of a hat and the author pretends that's a good thing and not obnoxious and annoying. Losing a loved one, failing to save someone, losing your cool after too much stress accumulates, those make sense to cry about, doing it all the time is when it goes from "emotional" to just whiny.
Emotion and expressing it is a healthy thing. Anything in excess can be construed as "bad," especially if it ends up just becoming self-pity without looking for recourse to grow (easier to forgive in children, more egregious to see in adults that should have hopefully grown into better, still context dependent), but the sheer magnitude of the issues characters people tend to label as "crybabies" are far beyond what most anyone can realistically claim to ever need to deal with. A real person would fold confronted by the weight of the fiction someone like Shinji encounters at half the age where the brain is expected to reach something even approaching full maturity.

What examples are you thinking to be excessive based on the context? What's 42% of the pain of having a spear go through your skull translate to where, up to that point in life, you were just an emotionally abused child with abandonment issues? Or taking on a responsibility you have no business being given and being guilted into it by the adults in the room? The ultimatum was fight the Kaiju seeking to kill everyone with no training, or let this injured stranger child you just met do it and die trying, all because no one older is capable of doing the job you shouldn't have and there's no guarantee you can do it despite being the only and last hope? I'm not even talking about the escalation later, just the first episode.
 
Kirito is only as bad as he is because the anime fucked up the first arc by inserting a bunch of side stories to make him seem overpowered.

He literally always needs help bringing down the arc villain and as shit as the fairy arc is writing-wise the whole point of that story was that the idea of him being anything but a lucky kid good at video games is retarded af.

Kirito is a borderline deconstruction of the edgy loner "badass" character because things only ever work out for him when he lets people help

Agreed, the LN actually had him be miserable as fuck being alone and he was never that OP anyway. It's even more ridiculous as the only thing that made him OP... was that he grinded his ass off to avoid being insta-killed by high level monsters(which didn't mean shit to raid bosses) and that vanished post Fairy Arc.
 
Who experienced the psychic pain of such fun things like his head being impaled, repeatedly

Right from the jump :maybe

I have a bridge to sell you if you think that's something most people can handle :skully
Chaos please, he was a bitch long before he stepped in to the robot
 
Kirito is only as bad as he is because the anime fucked up the first arc by inserting a bunch of side stories to make him seem overpowered.

He literally always needs help bringing down the arc villain and as shit as the fairy arc is writing-wise the whole point of that story was that the idea of him being anything but a lucky kid good at video games is retarded af.

Kirito is a borderline deconstruction of the edgy loner "badass" character because things only ever work out for him when he lets people help
And instead of a deconstruction, the SAO anime started a whole archetype of Kirito clones we’ve seen in anime this past decade

:wow
 
Speaking of terrible, CBR made a list of the 20 best anime with the worst protags
:heston

20. Konosuba - Kazuma


19. Sailor Moon - Usagi


18. Death Note - Light


17. Naruto - Naruto


16. School Days - Makoto Itou


15. Black Clover - Asta


14. Tokyo Ghoul - Kaneki


13. Deadman Wonderland - Ganta


12. Fairy Tail - Natsu


11. MHA - Deku


10. Inuyasha - Kagome


9. AoT - Eren


8. Tokyo Revengers - Takemichi


7. SAO - Kirito


6. DBZ - Goku


5. Orange - Naho


4. Pokemon - Ash


3. Boruto - Boruto


2. Re:Zero - Subaru


1. Evangelion - Shinji


:heston

Why is Subaru at 2? The only people who hate him as a character are those who stopped at s1. In fact i'd say the rezero fandom has a big problem with overwanking subaru lol.
 
Chaos please, he was a bitch long before he stepped in to the robot
So you'd be taking that spear through the skull like a champ, eh? :maybe

Something tells me the sheer number of migraines and eye I got severely damaged wouldn't prepare me for that, so what sort of experience have you had I wonder :hm
 
Also "weak and wimpy" ignores the fact that Subaru's worst points, come after him experiencing the most traumatizing shit.

Bro was literally tortured by someone he thought was his friend in arc 2.

His mental shutdown in arc 3 came right after the witch cult killed everyone he knew and loved, and then being blamed for it by Puck (bitch-ass nigga)

in s2? it takes Subaru

-getting eaten alive by rabbits

-seeing emilia possessed by satella and killing himself

-emilia getting mindbroken by the trials and going full obsessed

for him to start breaking down.
 
So you'd be taking that spear through the skull like a champ, eh? :maybe

Something tells me the sheer number of migraines and eye I got severely damaged wouldn't prepare me for that, so what sort of experience have you had I wonder :hm

No experience myself. Probably have to ask your mom. Spears to the head seem to be her expertise :maybe
 
Its the psychic pain that counts :maybe
Don't think you meant it like that, but that kind of comes of as a rape joke dude :hm

Unless there's some other way I could be interpreting psychic pain here? shrugs

Either way, know you're shit posting either way :maybe
 
Don't think you meant it like that, but that kind of comes of as a rape joke dude :hm

Unless there's some other way I could be interpreting psychic pain here? shrugs

Either way, know you're shit posting either way :maybe
I was bringing it back to shinji experiencing his head getting impailed which you called psychic pain which, obviously isn't physical in nature but still traumatizing :maybe
 
I was bringing it back to shinji experiencing his head getting impailed which you called psychic pain which, obviously isn't physical in nature but still traumatizing :maybe
I get that, just think that was a joke better set up in a different context given the other reading I noticed :maybe
 
Evangelion is not so secretly Anno's very own form of therapy for himself. While End of Evangelion was bleak as hell, Shinji's lowest point (so far anyway. Rebuild had him sort of, kind of, cause another apocalypse and almost cause a third?), the kid ultimately did choose to reject instrumentality even though he briefly gave in completely.

Rebuild having a more fulfilling ending is mostly Anno being in a mentally healthier place than anything.
Yeah, not even saying I am a fan of the series in general, just saying that Anno, who is criticized even by his fans for giving an unsatisfying conclusion and refusing to do so over his own issues that he got better with over time, let his issues get more in the way than the story.
Emotion and expressing it is a healthy thing. Anything in excess can be construed as "bad," especially if it ends up just becoming self-pity without looking for recourse to grow (easier to forgive in children, more egregious to see in adults that should have hopefully grown into better, still context dependent), but the sheer magnitude of the issues characters people tend to label as "crybabies" are far beyond what most anyone can realistically claim to ever need to deal with. A real person would fold confronted by the weight of the fiction someone like Shinji encounters at half the age where the brain is expected to reach something even approaching full maturity.
Notice I never said him being upset as a teenager is the problem, the whole abandoning character development to go back to square one was my problem. You can have your super realistic teenager reactions to shit like fighting Kaiju, but don't expect me to care much if you're just going to throw away any change and growth he had prior because you want to make a "point" over making a story.
just the first episode.
Once again, notice I said "My problem with Shinji is not that he reacts like a teenager to being a Mecha protag", no shit that would include the first episode and many of the earlier ones, not to mention is common in mecha even before Eva came along, my problem was him growing to the challenge only to fall back. Sure I can say the dude had a pretty garbage support cast that outside of like 1 or two made his life more stressful than it already was, his shitbag father being the worst, and you can point to the "realism" all you want as an excuse for it, but like I already said, don't expect to me to care anymore if you just want to make a point rather than have a protag have character growth. I have seen you in the past mention this same logic for why you hate Luke's portrayal in the Sequels, though that is even less "realistic" and more out of character writing, but the same excuse was used and I saw you call that out because you don't like a character like Luke because he is "realistic" you like him because he grows as a person and overcomes the odds. If you are fine with a more nihilistic look at this specific character failing to win in the end than more power to you, I personally do not care for that.
 
Wait, I haven't been keeping up, what show is this?

That's horrifying though :geg

Feels like an understatement if empathy is that underdeveloped :maybe
Solo Leveling

People were mad that Jinwoo cried after healing his terminally ill mom because it "reduced the aura" he had throughout the entire show

We've hit the peak brainrot singularity where showing any semblance of personality is a negative for the terminally online timmies with ADHD
 
Solo Leveling

People were mad that Jinwoo cried after healing his terminally ill mom because it "reduced the aura" he had throughout the entire show

We've hit the peak brainrot singularity where showing any semblance of personality is a negative for the terminally online timmies with ADHD
These niggas took the sigma memes literally.
 
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