• We're looking for artists. Direct message Dr. Watson for more info!

OBD Convo #58: We are the Heroes of Justice

Status
Not open for further replies.
NostalgiaFan said:
Yeah, not even saying I am a fan of the series in general, just saying that Anno, who is criticized even by his fans for giving an unsatisfying conclusion and refusing to do so over his own issues that he got better with over time, let his issues get more in the way than the story.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, I'm not even a particularly large fan myself. I've just reflected on my original watch on Adult Swim as a kid compared to how I react now after growing up more I guess?
NostalgiaFan said:
Notice I never said him being upset as a teenager is the problem, the whole abandoning character development to go back to square one was my problem. You can have your super realistic teenager reactions to shit like fighting Kaiju, but don't expect me to care much if you're just going to throw away any change and growth he had prior because you want to make a "point" over making a story.
Click to expand...
I get the frustration of that, but I guess it doesn't really trouble me on 2 counts. First being I have a great deal of patience for the imperfection of children and adolescents, they're still learning/growing/etc? Second being it felt organic to the narrative to me rather than something forced onto him as an unnatural kind of reaction. If that makes sense?
NostalgiaFan said:
Once again, notice I said "My problem with Shinji is not that he reacts like a teenager to being a Mecha protag", no shit that would include the first episode and many of the earlier ones, not to mention is common in mecha even before Eva came along, my problem was him growing to the challenge only to fall back. Sure I can say the dude had a pretty garbage support cast that outside of like 1 or two made his life more stressful than it already was, his shitbag father being the worst, and you can point to the "realism" all you want as an excuse for it, but like I already said, don't expect to me to care anymore if you just want to make a point rather than have a protag have character growth.
Click to expand...
Wasn't even really about the realism for me, his first stint in the robot goes beyond "realism" because the ceiling of reality is fairly low barrier. Its when it feels like it fits with the natural progression of the narrative rather than being a plot point the writer wants to drag the cast across regardless of being earned or not?
NostalgiaFan said:
I have seen you in the past mention this same logic for why you hate Luke's portrayal in the Sequels, though that is even less "realistic" and more out of character writing, but the same excuse was used and I saw you call that out because you don't like a character like Luke because he is "realistic" you like him because he grows as a person and overcomes the odds. If you are fine with a more nihilistic look at this specific character failing to win in the end than more power to you, I personally do not care for that.
Click to expand...
I think I'm less sympathetic to adults because most of the time they've had time to learn and grow, which I also something I have to work on honestly. And Luke's character arc could have worked in a vacuum, but its a writing fumble based on how he previously acted rather than an issue with the idea of "broken legend ducks consequences out of self pity." I hated how he just says fuck it after he overreacted to a possible future in a universe where visions are not definitive and often murky and completely dropped the ball leaving others to pick up after him. That doesn't even feel organic, even before we understood why he hermited it up in the Force Awakens.

I get it though.
 
ChaosTheory123 said:
Oh yeah, I'm not even a particularly large fan myself. I've just reflected on my original watch on Adult Swim as a kid compared to how I react now after growing up more I guess?

I get the frustration of that, but I guess it doesn't really trouble me on 2 counts. First being I have a great deal of patience for the imperfection of children and adolescents, they're still learning/growing/etc? Second being it felt organic to the narrative to me rather than something forced onto him as an unnatural kind of reaction. If that makes sense?

Wasn't even really about the realism for me, his first stint in the robot goes beyond "realism" because the ceiling of reality is fairly low barrier. Its when it feels like it fits with the natural progression of the narrative rather than being a plot point the writer wants to drag the cast across regardless of being earned or not?

I think I'm less sympathetic to adults because most of the time they've had time to learn and grow, which I also something I have to work on honestly. And Luke's character arc could have worked in a vacuum, but its a writing fumble based on how he previously acted rather than an issue with the idea of "broken legend ducks consequences out of self pity." I hated how he just says fuck it after he overreacted to a possible future in a universe where visions are not definitive and often murky and completely dropped the ball leaving others to pick up after him. That doesn't even feel organic, even before we understood why he hermited it up in the Force Awakens.

I get it though.
Click to expand...
So in the end I guess it all comes down to personal taste, you like the narratives because it feels natural to what it is meant to be, and I do not care much for it because it is not my cup of tea to see it end up like it did because I prefer stories to have less bleak and hopeless endings. As a Horror fan I can get that working, but in other genres when you give me characters that the plot tries to get me to care about, it makes me unsatisfied to see them fail and go down in such a nihilistic way. That's part of why I prefer the rebuilds ending, not like I am a fan of the series in general, just prefer a conclusion where he manages to overcome and find happiness. I do agree that as far as issues in the original are concerned, Shinji's are more the people around failing him than his own faults, it makes me pity the kid in all honestly, having a dad so shitty a literal T-800 killing machine did a far better job as a father in comparison.
 
Masterblack06 said:
Speaking of terrible, CBR made a list of the 20 best anime with the worst protags
:heston

20. Konosuba - Kazuma


19. Sailor Moon - Usagi


18. Death Note - Light


17. Naruto - Naruto


16. School Days - Makoto Itou


15. Black Clover - Asta


14. Tokyo Ghoul - Kaneki


13. Deadman Wonderland - Ganta


12. Fairy Tail - Natsu


11. MHA - Deku


10. Inuyasha - Kagome


9. AoT - Eren


8. Tokyo Revengers - Takemichi


7. SAO - Kirito


6. DBZ - Goku


5. Orange - Naho


4. Pokemon - Ash


3. Boruto - Boruto


2. Re:Zero - Subaru


1. Evangelion - Shinji


:heston
Click to expand...
"Naruto was a much better character in Shippuden."
No he very fucking blatantly is NOT. :really

It will never NOT be hilarious how fucking backwards these people have this statement. The fact is Naruto actually WAS a good protagonist to start with for basically the entirety of Part 1. Hell he was the ONLY likable character on the main team. He degrades and becomes completely insufferable in Shippuden when he becomes completely obsessed with Sasuke.

But of course this is "character development" to some people. :smh
 
Flashy cutscenes for Ultimates is basically the only thing Storm has over Sparking Zero

:hestonpls
 
IMG_2320.jpg




no way, bruh :checkthis
 


Half these dudes should have just been part of the playable roster

Especially Barragan, White Ichigo, and Monster Aizen
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top