OBD Convo #9: The Sith Never Die

[CrossTheHorizon]

I took her "own flesh" to mean her family and those who share blood with her. Currently doing the Black Knife questline. Gonna see if it gives me more info.

Nah, it literally meant her body as an Emperyan. It's why she spends the whole game as a soul using a puppet.

In fact it increasingly seems like Marika might have played her? The knife she enchanted to kill herself is also the one used to kill Godwin.

Rogier himself is shooting in the dark, and on top of that is being manipulated by Those who Live in Death.

 

[Atem]

Nah, it literally meant her body as an Emperyan. It's why she spends the whole game as a soul using a puppet.

In fact it increasingly seems like Marika might have played her? The knife she enchanted to kill herself is also the one used to kill Godwin.

Rogier himself is shooting in the dark, and on top of that is being manipulated by Those who Live in Death.

Not really likely that it was Marika. Since the whole reason Marika destroyed the Elden Ring was over grief, and the fact Godwyn died. What likely happened is that Ranni stole the Rune of Death, performed the rite on the blade, and ordered the assassins kill both herself and Godwyn.

 

[Atem]

And it is line with Ranni's motivation. She desires to end everything that came before. Including the immortality of the gods.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Not really likely that it was Marika. Since the whole reason Marika destroyed the Elden Ring was over grief, and the fact Godwyn died. What likely happened is that Ranni stole the Rune of Death, performed the rite on the blade, and ordered the assassins kill both herself and Godwyn.

Except that the assassins are still trying to kill her during her quest line under orders from the Two Fingers. You have to kill a bunch of them for her iirc.

Those who Live in Death are at cross-purposes with Ranni who wants to set up her own Order, since what they want is to mend the Elden Ring with the death rune (the Duskborn ending where everything is mortal now)

The whole thing with Fia even implies they were the ones behind Godwyns death since they know where he is, set Fia up to create the mending rune, and keep calling him their "lord".

I'm also not really convinced by the whole "shattered the Ring in grief" thing, since Marika explicitly betrayed Malekith (who Ranni stole the Death Rune from) and there is something else going on with the whole Radagon thing.

Considering all three of the Empryeans are Radagons kids, my theory at the moment is that Radagon is Marika being controlled directly by the Two Fingers somehow. All of his actions benefit or are in defense of the Golden Order and Two Fingers, while Marika seems to be acting against them a lot.

 

[Atem]

Gold Mask dabbing on the Erdtree.

Except that the assassins are still trying to kill her during her quest line under orders from the Two Fingers. You have to kill a bunch of them for her iirc.

Different assassins. The ones sent after her are those shadow creatures. The Black Knife assassins are separate secret fights. That also happen to be in the same area as them. Which suggests they're actively fighting each other.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Gold Mask dabbing on the Erdtree.

Different assassins. The ones sent after her are those shadow creatures. The Black Knife assassins are separate secret fights. That also happen to be in the same area as them. Which suggests they're actively fighting each other.

It still wouldn't make much sense for the Black Knife assassins to work for Ranni seeing as they are from outside the Lands Between (whereas Ranni was born there and as far as we know never left) and also have explicitly close ties to Marika.

Granted it's also possible Marika told them to support or protect Ranni since if my theory holds any water Marika actually wants to screw over the Two Fingers as well.

I'm hoping the DLC gives more insight into the Two Fingers themselves since all of this depends largely on what their motives were and if/why Marika was actually against them

 

[Atem]

It still wouldn't make much sense for the Black Knife assassins to work for Ranni seeing as they are from outside the Lands Between (whereas Ranni was born there and as far as we know never left) and also have explicitly close ties to Marika.

The black knife itself says it was imbued by the stolen Rune of Death, and Ranni was the one whole stole it. It isn't rocket science, and we see that the black knife assassins have a presence in the Lands Between. Their ringleader is even stationed there. It wouldn't be hard to contact them. Since they were already doing work in the region.

Granted it's also possible Marika told them to support or protect Ranni since if my theory holds any water Marika actually wants to screw over the Two Fingers as well.

Marika wants to die for some reason. Probably because of her current state, and the punishment she has to endure because of what she did by shattering the Elden Ring. The Two Fingers didn't like that at all. That, or Godwyn's death. Or a combination of those two factors.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Not really likely that it was Marika. Since the whole reason Marika destroyed the Elden Ring was over grief, and the fact Godwyn died. What likely happened is that Ranni stole the Rune of Death, performed the rite on the blade, and ordered the assassins kill both herself and Godwyn.

can't remember what item it was but I read some description last night that pretty much lines up with this, also it implicated Rykard in the plot somehow but I don't have a good grasp on his lore yet

and apparently there are even more endings than we previously thought because there's a Gold Mask one now. Wonder how many there actually are in the game.

 

[Atem]

can't remember what item it was but I read some description last night that pretty much lines up with this, also it implicated Rykard in the plot somehow but I don't have a good grasp on his lore yet

and apparently there are even more endings than we previously thought because there's a Gold Mask one now. Wonder how many there actually are in the game.

Gold Mask is the best one, and has them shit talk the gods for being no different than mortals due to their failures of character. Basically, big paladin energy where they become more holy than the deities they worship. Even the mending rune you get notes this, and aims to fix this problem by removing that problem.

 

[Atem]

Literally Age of Order:

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Gold Mask is the best one, and has them shit talk the gods for being no different than mortals due to their failures of character. Basically, big paladin energy where they become more holy than the deities they worship. Even the mending rune you get notes this, and aims to fix this problem by removing that problem.

this is kinda funnily consistent with the original Dark Souls in a way, where Logan noted that there wasn't anything intrinsically deific about the gods. They're just Gwyn's species. Granted in Elden Ring it's a bit different because there are many real gods, but it's cool to see this perspective survive

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

The black knife itself says it was imbued by the stolen Rune of Death, and Ranni was the one whole stole it. It isn't rocket science, and we see that the black knife assassins have a presence in the Lands Between. Their ringleader is even stationed there. It wouldn't be hard to contact them. Since they were already doing work in the region.

Ranni did steal the Rune and probably was the one who made the Blade, but she did it to kill herself so she could be free of the Two Fingers influence. The Black Knife Assassins are explicitly Marika's people from outside the Lands Between, and they aren't sellswords or the like either. It's pretty obvious Marika brought them here.

Ranni wouldn't have gained anything from Godwyns death, while Those Who Live in Death have a different purpose entirely and are heavily implied to have killed him to create the Death Mending Rune.

Marika wants to die for some reason. Probably because of her current state, and the punishment she has to endure because of what she did by shattering the Elden Ring. The Two Fingers didn't like that at all. That, or Godwyn's death. Or a combination of those two factors.

Yeah, that's the thing. In the opening cutscene Marika breaks the Elden Ring and disappears before the Night of the Black Knives and the big war.

 

[Limu&Doug]

 

[Masterblack06]

Seems like discord borked for me

 

[Atem]

Yeah, that's the thing. In the opening cutscene Marika breaks the Elden Ring and disappears before the Night of the Black Knives and the big war.

In the game proper it's explained this happened after Godwyn's death.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

Seems like discord borked for me

Same here

 

[Atem]

And it really wouldn't make sense for Marika to have orchestrated it. Since she was in favor of immortality to begin with, and did everything in her power to keep it that way. However, some stuff with Maliketh suggests Marika betrayed him somehow. Though it's not explicit in what way exactly.

 

[Masterblack06]

Same here

Apparently it's borked for everyone currently

 

[Masterblack06]

>Jon didn't tell his family about how ultraman kept him prisoner
:CantTakeIt:

 

[OtherGalaxy]

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/battles-7/lionel-suggs-is-gay-2224546/

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