As a side note Ranni and Marika can both get bent I'm going all in on the Dung Eater curse 
OBD Convo #9: The Sith Never Die
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Dung eater stans deserve the gallows
Nope. It's a catch all term for something divine. And Gowry explicitly has his own agenda, and is twisting the truth in Millicent's quest-line. Becoming a full god isn't synonymous with becoming a vessel for the Elden Ring like Ranni could have. Completely different things. He even tries to have you kill Millicent, and help her sisters instead.
Everything is lining up. You're over thinking this, and forgetting what the definition of empyrean is. We know for a fact that Ranni was killed by Maliketh, that she stole the Rune of Death, created the Godskin Apostles, and had the Black Knives assassinate Godwyn. Those Who Live in Death are not opposed to Ranni. They are opposed to Maliketh.
Yes, they do. Blaidd was explicitly made by the Two Fingers to watch over Ranni. As she was to be the successor. Not anybody else. However, she decided to be a little shit about it and ruin everything for everyone forever.
Which was Gowry referring to them achieving full godhood via the scarlet rot, and it not having anything to do with the Elden Beast. It was a matter of opinion on his part that the scarlet rot transformed them into true gods. Since he was one of the crazies who worshiped it. Completely different things.
Nope, he makes it clear that this is a completely different thing he's talking about that doesn't have anything to with the Elden Beast. Instead it was about his point of view that only those with the scarlet rot were true gods. Which is a case of him being objectively wrong.
No, they weren't. Ranni was the one who had the favor of the Two Fingers. They did not, and only Malenia could achieve full godhood but that has nothing to do with replacing Marika as the vessel for the Elden Beast.
Miquella isn't being controlled by anyone. If anything he has been pulling the strings, and even attempted to branch away from everyone by creating his own Erdtree known as the Haligtree.
She isn't being possessed by some other goddess. She became a full goddess as a result of the Tarnished forcing the scarlet rot to bloom for a third time. She went from demigod to god.
The only right answer is Gold Mask.As a side note Ranni and Marika can both get bent I'm going all in on the Dung Eater curse
No, it isn't. Empryean is explicitly distinct from being a simple demi-God, and again we hear early in Ranni's quest line that there are only three of them: Ranni, Malenia, and Miquella. The others are never referred to by that title.
No to basically all of this.
Empryean is explicitly distinct from being just a demi-God, Ranni killed herself, Malekith killed the Gloam-Eyed Goddess well before the Shattering which is why he even had the Rune at all, and the Godskin apostles have nothing to do with Ranni at all.
Those Who Live in Death want to repair the Elden Ring using the Mending Rune they created with Godwyns death, and Ranni wants to completely remove the Golden Order to create her own. They are at complete cross purposes.
No. Malenia and Miquella were both born Empryean to be potential successors to Marika.
No, it was literally "this is what an Empryean is" followed by "as soon as I saw Malenia bloom the rot I chose her to follow". Miquella has nothing to do with the rot and is also an Empryean. Same for Ranni.
And them being the three Empryeans comes from Ranni's quest line, not Gowry.
He refers to both Malenia and Miquella as Empryeans despite Miquella not having anything to do with the rot, and again he isnt the only source as Ranni herself explains what the Empryeans are.
Yes, they did. Because that's what the Empryeans are.
Hence "through Mohg", who serves the Formless Mother.
She's only done it twice when we kill her though. First time was Rahdan and second time is against us. A third time would have elevated her but she never got the chance
A CURSED BLESSING TO ALL
@Atem
Yo hold up, turns out I forgot something kind of important in that dialogue about the Empryeans.
Here's the clip first of all
So each of the Empryeans has their own Two Fingers, apparently. Which....raises other questions.
Also this is where she confirms that she was the one who killed herself, since "mine own Empryean flesh" can only be her with Malenia and Miquella still alive.
Also Ranni actually isn't an Empryean anymore, so apparently the title can be taken back
Yo hold up, turns out I forgot something kind of important in that dialogue about the Empryeans.
Here's the clip first of all
So each of the Empryeans has their own Two Fingers, apparently. Which....raises other questions.
Also this is where she confirms that she was the one who killed herself, since "mine own Empryean flesh" can only be her with Malenia and Miquella still alive.
Also Ranni actually isn't an Empryean anymore, so apparently the title can be taken back
Literally the only person who says this is a schizo obsessed with swamps. Gowry feels that way but nobody else has a hard on for them like he does. Except maybe Hidetaka Miyazaki. Empyrean in the "true or full god" sense, and not the "they could become a vessel for the Elden Beast" sense. That was only Ranni.
And you would be wrong yet again.
This is never stated to be the case, and the Godskin Apostles continue to be active even after her death. Which is easily explained by the fact she is actually still alive, and living in the body of a doll. Maliketh never lost all of it. Only part of the Rune of Death was stolen. A "fragment" of it, and Maliketh then bound his sword in his flesh to prevent the rest of it from being stolen.
The Godskin Apostles are not even aligned with Those Who Live in Death, and the Black Knives got their portion of the Rune of Death from Ranni. It has only been stolen once. Since immediately after that? Maliketh sealed the blade with his own flesh and blood to prevent anyone from taking it again. How did they steal it again when it become impossible after the first time?
It was only stolen once, and just once. After that? There were no other instances of theft.
Neither Malenia or Miquella had the protection or services of someone like Blaidd or Maliketh.
That's precisely why Gowry is full of it, and it was the point I was trying to make to begin with. He doesn't know what he's talking about, and is speaking out from a personal bias of his in regards to the scarlet rot and Malenia.
Gowry literally says that she was Empyrean and beyond the demigods because of the scarlet rot. Which puts his judgement into question.
Gowry doesn't refer to Miquella as an Empyrean. He only says as such for Malenia, and it's specifically because of the scarlet rot. Word-for-word this is what he says later on in the quest:
"Queen Marika and her King Consort Radagon were blessed with twin demigods, and Malenia was one of them. She was born an Empyrean, carrying the scarlet rot."
Nope. You keep on confusing two completely different things. Being a full god =/= having the favor of the Two Fingers, and being a vessel of the Elden Beast.
I question whether the Formless Mother is even real, and not just one of Miquella's tricks. Since he had the power over the minds of others since childhood.
The second phase literally has her become the goddess of rot. Which means she must have used it more than once before. That whole part of the fight wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Miss me with that Dung Eater stanning.
I am skeptical of how much she is saying is even true here. Since it's clear that she was involved with the assassination of Godwyn because the Rune of Death was only stolen once. And that never happened again. Which means the Black Knives could only have ever gotten it from her. Since Maliketh sealed his black sword in his flesh afterwards. I don't trust a word that she says, and Blaidd is always going to back her up no matter what happens due to his loyalty. The reason it can be taken back is because it has nothing to do with their divinity like Gowry thinks it does. The quality of being a proper vessel for the Elden Beast involves something else.
Everyone who talks about ths Empryeans says this. There is never once anywhere an indication that the Empryeans are anything but the potential successors, and it's only those three ever called it.
Not even remotely how this is shaping up
This is never stated to be the case, and the Godskin Apostles continue to be active even after her death. Which is easily explained by the fact she is actually still alive, and living in the body of a doll. Maliketh never lost all of it. Only part of the Rune of Death was stolen. A "fragment" of it, and Maliketh then bound his sword in his flesh to prevent the rest of it from being stolen.
Yes it was. Ranni explicitly killed herself with the rune, it had nothing to do with Malekith. He got the Rune from the Gloam Eyed Goddess, who Marika had him kill as his only task.
The Godskin apostles never had anything to do with Ranni in the first place, of course her death didn't effect them. There literally isnt a single thing connecting them.
What? The Godskin apostles literally drew their power from the Destined Death, which is what Those who Live in Death serve.
And the rune was taken by Malekith from the Gloam Eyed Goddess as his only task, which is when he killed her. And Malekith never recovered the stolen portion because you can literally pick it up yourself later.
You're ignoring Malekiths own taking of the Rune from the Gloam Eyed Goddess.
So? They were still Empryeans.
Gowry isn't the only source, Ranni herself and the in-game items all make it explicit that there are only three Empryeans and it's the three of them.
Which is why I said "the three of them being Empryeans comes from Ranni's quest, not Gowry".
Eh, fair enough. Not how I read his statement but irrelevant because we have....literally everything else about the Empryeans.
Again, this is explicitly and directly contradicted by literally every reference to the purpose of the Empryeans. From Gowry, from Ranni, and from the in-game items. There are only three, and it's those three.
Miquella pretty clearly didnt want anything to do with Mohg, so it wouldn't make much sense for him to have manufactured an Old One out of whole cloth just to mess with him.
Maybe the title is being dramatic :zaru
YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE CURSED BLESSING
Again, you can literally go pick up that piece of the death rune yourself. Ranni killed herself and then lost the rune in the process, she had nothing to do with the Black Knives.
Malekith never recovered the rune after the theft, it's still out there.
well we already know Bayformers Screamer can manhandle his own writers so
I like how @Atem and @CrossTheHorizon is having this days long argument over who is responsible for what in Elden Ring and fucking no one cares even now
I sort of care, even though I'm not that far in the game.I like how @Atem and @CrossTheHorizon is having this days long argument over who is responsible for what in Elden Ring and fucking no one cares even now
Anyway I'm done
Hey man, we don't call you out when you start spazzing about some SB thing outside the Funny Arguments thread
I like how @Atem and @CrossTheHorizon is having this days long argument over who is responsible for what in Elden Ring and fucking no one cares even now
Hey man, we don't call you out when you start spazzing about some SB thing outside the Funny Arguments thread
Hey, hey, hey, hey....Anyway I'm done
Hey man, we don't call you out when you start spazzing about some SB thing outside the Funny Arguments thread
I won't be doing that anymore so don't worry about me.
Thanks for the vote of confidence guys....
Literally got perma-banned from there and yet, I'll somehow find a way to still talk about SB outside of the Circus Thread.
Literally got perma-banned from there and yet, I'll somehow find a way to still talk about SB outside of the Circus Thread.
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