OBD Convo #9: The Sith Never Die

[CrossTheHorizon]

I already proved this wrong, that game itself makes it clear that they still have access to the black flames when we fight them, they explicitly drew their power from the Black Blade, and Maliketh sealed his weapon with his flesh after this. The Rune of Death was already in his word by the time he fought them, and what they used was a fragment of it.

Wrong.

The apostles, one said to serve Destined Death, are wielders of the god-slaying black flame. But after their defeat by Maliketh, the Black Blade, the source of their power was sealed away.

The source of their power wasn't sealed away until after Malekith defeated them, at which point he sealed it into his sword. Ranni later stole part of it and Malekith freaked out and stuck the rest into his body.

Because again, the game spells out that Marika had Malekith do exactly one thing, defeat the Gloam Eyed Goddess and take the Rune of Destined Death. Which happened well before Ranni or the others existed.

The only sibling Marika had was Maliketh, and even then as a half-sibling. There were no others except Radagon which was actually Marika. Either in a disguise, or as literally a split part of her being because magic.

We know there were other goddesses, and no indication of their parentage. They could easily be her sisters or relatives.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

This is also up to debate since Maliketh might be like Blaidd, and therefore be a construct of the Two Fingers made to protect Marika in the past. Thus not really a sibling.

Wasn't aware of that with Blaidd, but I don't get why Maliketh would be specified as her half-sibling if he had no relation whatsoever
It isn't like a character being unreliable or anything it's straight up in his item description

 

[Atem]

Wrong.

Prove it. I already proved my point.

OBD Convo #9: The Sith Never Die

Dung Eater is such a weird character He's basically obsessed with people born cursed and is basically Syndrome from Incredibles "if everyone is cursed no-one will be" Except he was never cursed so it doesn't even make sense why he's that way and why his chosen solution would be to make things...

onelastforum.com

The source of their power wasn't sealed away until after Malekith defeated them, at which point he sealed it into his sword. Ranni later stole part of it and Malekith freaked out and stuck the rest into his body.

It is literally stated the source of their power was the Black Blade, and that Maliketh sealed it after their battle. In order to prevent any more attempts of theft. Which means Ranni is that thief.

Because again, the game spells out that Marika had Malekith do exactly one thing, defeat the Gloam Eyed Goddess and take the Rune of Destined Death. Which happened well before Ranni or the others existed.

Nope, the Rune of Death was always a part of the Elden Ring and Marika removed it to protect the gods from death. And grant them immortality. She literally gave it to Maliketh, and they put it inside his sword. The Dusk Eyed Queen wasn't the original owner of it.

We know there were other goddesses, and no indication of their parentage. They could easily be her sisters or relatives.

We have literally nothing. When we already know for a fact that the Godskin Apostles got their power from the Maliketh's sword. Which already had the Rune of Death placed inside of it.

 

[Atem]

Wasn't aware of that with Blaidd, but I don't get why Maliketh would be specified as her half-sibling if he had no relation whatsoever
It isn't like a character being unreliable or anything it's straight up in his item description

It's noted as such in the Remembrance of the Black Blade. That he was a "shadow bound beast" given to his Empyrean.

Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean.
Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away
Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him.

Which brings me back to contradictory information existing as a intentional part of the lore. Even in item descriptions.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

Prove it. I already proved my point.

OBD Convo #9: The Sith Never Die

Dung Eater is such a weird character He's basically obsessed with people born cursed and is basically Syndrome from Incredibles "if everyone is cursed no-one will be" Except he was never cursed so it doesn't even make sense why he's that way and why his chosen solution would be to make things...

onelastforum.com

What exactly is it that you think that says? Because it says that Malekith defeated them and sealed their source of power. Malekith is the Black Blade, that's his title. Hence when you beat him you get the Rememberance of the Black Blade. He sealed their source of power after defeating them according to the description you just posted, btw.

It is literally stated the source of their power was the Black Blade, and that Maliketh sealed it after their battle. In order to prevent any more attempts of theft. Which means Ranni is that thief.

No, their source of power was the Rune of Destined Death, and it was sealed after Malekith defeated them. Malekith only sealed the blade inside his body after Ranni stole part of it later, it had nothing to do with that battle.

Nope, the Rune of Death was always a part of the Elden Ring and Marika removed it to protect the gods from death. And grant them immortality. She literally gave it to Maliketh, and they put it inside his sword. The Dusk Eyed Queen wasn't the original owner of it.

No, she didn't. She sent Malekith to get it from the Gloam Eyed Goddess while she was still an Empryean, i.e. before she was the actual Goddess. It's literally the only thing she asked him to do.

We have literally nothing. When we already know for a fact that the Godskin Apostles got their power from the Maliketh's sword. Which already had the Rune of Death placed inside of it.

Literally nothing says that. The description you posted says that their source of power was Destined Death, and that it was only sealed after their defeat.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

On another note....



What the actual fuck

 

[OtherGalaxy]

On another note....



What the actual fuck

lmao WHAT


Rykard is one of the characters I understand the least

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

lmao WHAT


Rykard is one of the characters I understand the least

Apparently his....wife(?).....is hoping that if she eats him he'll possess her or something?

I haven't done that quest line yet but I'm pretty sure she sent you to kill him (well, be killed by him she was hoping) in the first place lol

 

[Atem]

What exactly is it that you think that says? Because it says that Malekith defeated them and sealed their source of power. Malekith is the Black Blade, that's his title. Hence when you beat him you get the Rememberance of the Black Blade. He sealed their source of power after defeating them according to the description you just posted, btw.

He has always had the black blade, and that's why he has that title. His whole purpose was so that Marika could rip the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, and cast it onto him. This is because she wanted to prevent any death from happening. Especially that of herself, and her progeny. It is literally the first thing Marika does when they meet.

No, their source of power was the Rune of Destined Death, and it was sealed after Malekith defeated them. Malekith only sealed the blade inside his body after Ranni stole part of it later, it had nothing to do with that battle.

It was sealed before they even existed. It existed as part of the Elden Ring, and Marika gave it to Maliketh. Then it was stolen by others. Namely Ranni in this particular case. It was never separated from it before until Marika removed it.

No, she didn't. She sent Malekith to get it from the Gloam Eyed Goddess while she was still an Empryean, i.e. before she was the actual Goddess. It's literally the only thing she asked him to do.

Nope, Marika ripped it from the Elden Ring and gave it to Maliketh. A major part of the lore is the fact Marika is petrified of the idea of mortality, and wanted to prevent that from befalling her kind. The Golden Order literally built that as the foundation for it.

Literally nothing says that. The description you posted says that their source of power was Destined Death, and that it was only sealed after their defeat.

Except it wasn't actually sealed, they still have their black flames, they're alive and active, and you can even fight them. Which is explained by the fact that what Maliketh sealed was his sword.

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

He has always had the black blade, and that's why he has that title. His whole purpose was so that Marika could rip the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, and cast it onto him. This is because she wanted to prevent any death from happening. Especially that of herself, and her progeny. It is literally the first thing Marika does when they meet.

No, his purpose was to be the shadow of his Empryean. And as we've already established an Empryean is the sucessor, not the actual Goddess. She did this before actually becoming the head of the Golden Order.

It was sealed before they even existed. It existed as part of the Elden Ring, and Marika gave it to Maliketh. Then it was stolen by others. Namely Ranni in this particular case. It was never separated from it before until Marika removed it.

This is directly contradicted by the item description that you posted, dude. Malekith sealed their source of power after defeating them.

Nope, Marika ripped it from the Elden Ring and gave it to Maliketh. A major part of the lore is the fact Marika is petrified of the idea of mortality, and wanted to prevent that from befalling her kind. The Golden Order literally built that as the foundation for it.

Again, directly contradicted by the thing you literally just posted as well as Malekith's own lore. He served her when she was an Empryean, before she was host of the Elden Ring at all.

Except it wasn't actually sealed, they still have their black flames, they're alive and active, and you can even fight them. Which is explained by the fact that what Maliketh sealed was his sword.

It was sealed, the flame incantations literally reference the fact that they've lost power because it was sealed. Malekith explicitly sealed their source of power after defeating them, the Rune of Destined Death is the source of their power via their item description, the Rune of Destined Death was sealed into the Black Blade, and Marika ordered Malekith to do so while she was an Empryean.

All this took place before Ranni existed, and after she stole part of the rune Malekith wigged out and stuck the blade inside his body to prevent it from happening again.

Again, spelled out by the things both of us have posted here.

 

[Claudio Swiss]

I like how @Atem and @CrossTheHorizon is having this days long argument over who is responsible for what in Elden Ring and fucking no one cares even now

im not reading all that shit

 

[CrossTheHorizon]

To be honest I'm not even sure what it is we're arguing about at this point.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

this is why hidetaka miyazaki is the greatest to ever do it

 

[Vespa Crabro]

lmao WHAT


Rykard is one of the characters I understand the least

He's basically obsessed with devouring the gods

Think Aldrich but like

with an actual personality and he's kind of a massive dickhead

The volcano manor is a front to basically find him strong people to eat and assimilate into his blade so he can shank gods harder and then eat them after he fused with the God Devouring serpent

He's also the only demigod Gideon is flat out like nah this MF needs the hands dispensed on his ass posthaste

 

[OtherGalaxy]

He's basically obsessed with devouring the gods

Think Aldrich but like

with an actual personality and he's kind of a massive dickhead

The volcano manor is a front to basically find him strong people to eat and assimilate into his blade so he can shank gods harder and then eat them after he fused with the God Devouring serpent

He's also the only demigod Gideon is flat out like nah this MF needs the hands dispensed on his ass posthaste

miyazaki just straight up reusing past concepts is one of the funniest and best things about ER
like he just copy pasted the dragon lore from dark souls and gave them lightning and time manipulation this time
and he specifically stated the Pot Nobles in sekiro were characters he came up with, so Alexander and the Jars are definitely him just wanting to put more weird little dudes in jars in the game

god he is literally one of my greatest inspirations ever

 

[Vespa Crabro]

miyazaki just straight up reusing past concepts is one of the funniest and best things about ER
like he just copy pasted the dragon lore from dark souls and gave them lightning and time manipulation this time
and he specifically stated the Pot Nobles in sekiro were characters he came up with, so Alexander and the Jars are definitely him just wanting to put more weird little dudes in jars in the game

god he is literally one of my greatest inspirations ever

Man is a fucking menace, he made a whole ass scarlet rot swamp you can’t use torrent in and put a fucking world boss just big chilling in one of the few safe zones

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Man is a fucking menace, he made a whole ass scarlet rot swamp you can’t use torrent in and put a fucking world boss just big chilling in one of the few safe zones

never forget

 

[Vespa Crabro]

I fully believe it. This man gets off on designing poison areas

 

[Atem]

No, his purpose was to be the shadow of his Empryean. And as we've already established an Empryean is the sucessor, not the actual Goddess. She did this before actually becoming the head of the Golden Order.

No, his purpose was to seal Destined Death. It's even noted as such. Marika ripped the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring. Which was always a part of it until Marika removed it, and gave it to the Maliketh in the form of his black blade. Empyrean isn't just the successor. They are still called that even after they become the vessel for the Elden Ring.

Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean. Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death. Even then, she betrayed him.

This is directly contradicted by the item description that you posted, dude. Malekith sealed their source of power after defeating them.

Which was referring to his sword. Since it is the source of the Rune of Death, and always has been since Marika ripped it from the Elden Ring.

Again, directly contradicted by the thing you literally just posted as well as Malekith's own lore. He served her when she was an Empryean, before she was host of the Elden Ring at all.

Only in your fantasies. Marika sealed away destined death by giving it Maliketh in the form of the black blade. Which was always a part of the Elden Ring. Unless you are now arguing that the Empyrean who led the Godskin Apostles was the vessel for the Elden Ring. Which would be crazy.

It was sealed, the flame incantations literally reference the fact that they've lost power because it was sealed. Malekith explicitly sealed their source of power after defeating them, the Rune of Destined Death is the source of their power via their item description, the Rune of Destined Death was sealed into the Black Blade, and Marika ordered Malekith to do so while she was an Empryean.

That's because the act of sealing the black blade weakened all fragments of the Rune of Death in the Land Between. They still exist but with the black sword sealed away they became weaker but not nonexistent. Which is why we see traces of the Rune of Death everywhere. Especially in the form of the Death Root that Maliketh has you collect for him so he can eat them.

All this took place before Ranni existed, and after she stole part of the rune Malekith wigged out and stuck the blade inside his body to prevent it from happening again.

Nope, it all happened during the era of the Golden Order. And when Malenia, Miquella, and Ranni existed. This same fragment was used to assassinate Godwyn, and it's absolutely clear that Ranni was part of the plot. Since she conspired with Rykard. She even gave him the fragment to help him assassinate Godwyn. Which means she didn't use it to kill herself first.

Again, spelled out by the things both of us have posted here.

Once again, this is only in your fantasies. Face it, Ranni is a duplicitous cunt.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I fully believe it. This man gets off on designing poison areas

he also said in an interview once that he's a masochist and he designs deaths "the way he wants to die"