pokemon power scaling is literal fan fiction

[Bob74h]

He's equal to zeno but cant even beat a meteor, these pokemon fanboys are all biased dumbasses

Let me guess this random bull also solos fiction with it's infinite multiverse lv ap

Yea the more likely scenario is that this tauros is a multiverse buster not that your full of shit





Is this random fossil pokemon blocking and matching giratina's attack also multiverse lv

If you wanna pull well it's not in the games bs on me, You canonically beat arceus in a event

But sure, Ig the event is non canon and so goes every media where arceus and his trio of fodder show up



And if that's the case what you gonna base it on

The pokedex that says he only shaped the world ie planet

And btw it's not like the games agree with even a planet lv pokemon, cythia in game even says it's impossible for a pokemon to destroy the world

World literally means planet just saying this cause alot of vs debaters will try to rat and say it actually means universe

Regi gigas also stomps both dialga and palkia at the same time

And the same regi gigas struggles with moving a ice wall even with thousands of mamoswine helping

And it's even shown that random pokemon shooting at arceus aswell as debre falling damaged him

also arceus gets caught in silver water unable to move

his full power bloodlusted attack didt even destroy a city

and btw for those who might complain about the use of dialga and palkia stuff here just know they outright tanked his attacks

and giratina also was hard for arceus to keep track of

the same giratina that had it's attack reflected by a wobbfett

Universe lv team rocket

jeese and james just destroy the universe ig

And btw the arceus giving you his avatar thing is fan fiction

the quote here

refers to the legend plate not a physical avatar

sorry he's not the presence from dc, pokemon fans may want him to have a avatar to talk through and act through but sadly just no proof for it unlike the presence who talked using a dog as a avatar

And your always to get ignorant people who think what they want regardless of reason and to those people just dont comment, your not adding anything other then showing how biased you people are

and if you honestly buy into it, give an argument why im wrong instead of just going man im not changing my mind regrdless of what evidence

But these fanboys cant do that cause there is no evidence for universe lv arceus, it's all fan fiction

it's why he lost to a togetic

And here's the thing, some people here are going to say it's a outlier man



and if every piece of media is saying the opposite to you

then maybe it's you that is wrong not the media



Seriously what do you think is more likely poke stans

That a cabal of arceus haters made these official manga and anime just to spite you randoms online or that they wrote the stories in accordance to what they think is correct



I would write baryon naruto jobbing to spite you dudes, I doubt these manga writers and movie directors give a fuck about this belief you have enough to write around what you personally buy into unlike me or other randos on the web which is the point here



And another example arceus in the manga was even said to beat by random humans leading to him distrusting him

Palkia at one point failed to destroy a buliding only managing to cut it in half with the latios nearby dodging this attack

And btw the manga even shows that a dragonite can restrain palkia

The chains that restrained palkia and dialga

Were broken by a ramperdos in the manga

The lake guardians who were trapped in a machine could of been damaged by random pokemon

Btw it's them who create the red chain so it's relevant here

And btw we even see a exclamation of the pokemon cosmology

two things of note here

One these spaces are not called dialga or palkia themselves just their spaces meaning the avatar argument is already more destroyed then it already was



What with the giratina's true form being the reverse world

Being debunked by the pokedex saying he was banished there

 

[Bob74h]

And b,

These spaces are seen on a model next to earth and they are literally smaller meaning these dimensions are not even planet sized

And btw rayquaza also stomped giratina

Same guy who loses to robots

And arms that sent electric shocks throughout the body

And btw here's rayquaza failing to destroy a city wide barrier

And if you gonna say no man that makes no sense, this aint mega rayquaza jobbing here





It's not like mr falls on ice and gets damaged really is any better

You know who else stomped the fodder trio

Darkrai

Same pokemon that got negged by a random spectile,luxray and random polemon

Mamoswhine negs dialga

Zero's machines body giratina consistency

Magnamite are enough to neg shaymin

The same shaymin that with it's blast negged giratina enough so that it was afraid to move forward

I often hear arceus stans cite this interview saying he was purposefully nerfed so the events of the flim could occur

But funny thing being when you actually google the kanji

Nowhere is this actually said other then vs wiki the same place who conveniently agrees with the arceus wank and is known to lie

funny

Why is the only sole person who knows about this quote, Is the same person who actually does think arceus is boundless and solos everything

sounds like somebody is fabricating evidence to me



if the only source that says what you are saying, Is arceus is multiverse boundless god.com

This would be like me saying arceus = fodder .com as my sole reason





Read the thread yourself

Dont take my word for it

https://vsbattles.com/threads/is-ar...tlier, at least,many appearances in the anime.

And btw you can try to google this quote for me and tell me if you find anything other then vs wiki saying it cause for me that's the only place which seems to assert that this was a quote used

監督である湯山邦彦氏からは「世界を作った全知全能の存在というイメージ、設定がある」と語られており、物語に登場させるにあたってはそのスケールに苦慮したというエピソードがある。そのイメージを表現する一環として声優に美輪明宏氏を当てるという采配は絶大なインパクトがあったようで、氏の好演も相まってかこの映画の公開以降アルセウスの形容として「美輪明宏」「ミワセウス」という呼称が広まった。公式サイトで公開された設定では「今までのどんなポケモンよりも強大」とされ、湯山監督によると本来の設定では強すぎてシナリオが成り立たないことから、プレートの欠けた不完全な状態にすることでドラマを作り出す、タイムスリップの流れを盛り込み問題解決の説得力を持たせるなどの手法が採られたという。



And even then we already know this copium filled response was bs cause he used the arceus is a god as a argument for why he's right

and btw

If you really think the he's a god so multiverse lv thing then let me know why you dont say kaguya otstuki is multiverse lv afterall she's the rabbit goddess and even created 12 dimensions so if arceus is a multiverse buster for creating the universe and just being a deity then id love to hear why this same logic wouldt appy to kaguya



It's because of bias towards pokemon, that's it



And btw one of the responses, I have seen

It's just like the rock scene in dbz where a rock hurts goku

But difference being

Goku has tons of feats on a higher lv then that where arceus only has these low ends and nothing else

Screw off, comparing these featless fodders to son goku and saying their pathetic low ends are anywhere near the same as dbz as again one has feats to contradict the low ends where arceus and his trio of losers dont

 

[OtherGalaxy]

another great thread bob

that said

It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.

It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was born before the universe even existed.

It is described in mythology as the Pokémon that shaped the universe with its 1,000 arms.

It is told in mythology that this Pokémon was the first Pokémon born before the universe even existed.

It is the heavenly fount from which pours the light that shines across Hisui. Its luminance guides and protects all Pokémon. Hisuian mythology states that Arceus is the creator of all things.

Now pokedex entries certainly aren't infallible, we know that from SwSh, but every main game focused on mythology uses universe here unambiguously, or in LA's case "creator of all things"

And Legends Arceus establishes that it does use avatars or fragments, he gives us a part of itself as a reward, which explains why the power is all over the place. Not that different from Transformers' singularity characters ranging from fucking city block level to massively multiversal.

I'm not gonna sit here and say he isn't an inconsistent character but you pretty clearly omitted things that go against your point

The Spacial Rend barely destroying a building argument is no different than shit that has happened hundreds of times in Dragon Ball, hell in every action series, where environmental damage doesn't match what it should

etc etc

 

[Masterblack06]

Is Arceus beating Zeno? With current feats probably not

Is Arceus as strong as the OBD says he is? Yes, we don't care about what dudes on other forums claim a character sits at. We have Arceus where he is for a reason

 

[Bob74h]

The Spacial Rend barely destroying a building argument is no different than shit that has happened hundreds of times in Dragon Ball,

Already explained this but as said before

Twice over
dragon ball has feats at a higher tier then that and they are not contradicting


where pokemon does not have anything on the lv of literally anything in dbz
There's like 1000 episodes and like 13 movies yet no planet lv feats let alone universe lv stuff

Now pokedex entries certainly aren't infallible, we know that from SwSh, but every main game focused on mythology uses universe here unambiguously, or in LA's case "creator of all things"

If you think arceus is universe lv cause the pokedex says he created the universe
and that's like your only reason then

not sure why kaguya otstuki aint multiverse lv then she created multiple dimensions and it's not contradictory like how arceus would be


And if your argument as to reply would be well kaguya's feats arent good like arceus's
then literally lol

or if the reply would be well arceus is a god so clearly it's fine for him to be universe lv

Also kaguya is the rabbit goddess so she's also a god so lol at that reason

Any reason that pokemon stans can muster saying their fave is multiverse lv would be equally valid to kaguya yet one is seen as fodder and another as a multiverse lv power
it's just bias and that's it

If arceus creating universe in pokedex is a valid reason for saying he's universe lv despite shit feats
then kaguya creating universe in the guidebook is a valid reason for saying she's universe lv despite shit feats

Im making a comparison
I dont think kaguya is actually universe lv, I just think that if your going to use bloody pokedex to say arceus would be that strong not sure why kaguya cant be of the same tier using the same exact kinda statements

but you pretty clearly omitted things that go against your point

What info?

b, You do for everything like literally
like if you are against universe or multiverse level god of war then your not going to focus on the more higher end feats

and c
it's pokemon

it's going to be impossible for him to know every instance of every scene ever
it's a fairy large series if your not aware

it's not as if it's a four season anime like demon slayer
that is easy to follow

pokemon has tons of different manga,anime,movies and games
it's a giant franchise

And Legends Arceus establishes that it does use avatars or fragments, he gives us a part of itself as a reward, which explains why the power is all over the place. Not that different from Transformers' singularity characters ranging from fucking city block level to massively multiversal.

the scene of arceus giving a piece of himself would be talking about the legends plate not a full on avatar and if it was then this would be widely available
you think pokemon with it's fairly few feats and even statements to a degree wouldt be clinging onto this and

OPM stans
cling to the star destroying thing that garou did

pokemon stans cling to statements
they themselves made up and if they had any real info beyond arceus creating the universe then they would of used cause poke stans are starved for evidence unlike series with actual feats and evidence like dbz

if they had the proof
they would be posting it not circle jerking saying omfg arceus is boundless and solos fiction then not providing any sources


And not knowledgeable enough on the transformers characters in question to comment
but im doubting they have as much media as pokemon, talking about singularity not tf as a whole because tf as a whole might


but to me
I dont buy that the manga's and anime's which are made separately both somehow depict the gen 4 creation trio characters as being kinda weak because they are wrong if most media which is independently created say they arent multiverse busters then maybe the random battle board dudes are just wrong

if the idea of vs debaters were right
I doubt the writers would of wrote the scenes shown in the op/opening post

you really think whatever is animating these scenes really thinks that giratina can just blow away a multiverse lol
in the same way as toriyama thinks the battles in dbs are universe in scale

if so then your lying to me aswell as yourself

We have Arceus where he is for a reason

flat earthers think the earth is flat cause the bible said so
just cause someone has a reason for something does not mean it's a valid reason infact plenty of times a given reason for something could be dumb or unfounded

I could say plants and grasshoppers are the same species afterall both are green
having a reason for a action or belief means nothing, It's the validity of that reason and im guessing the validity of the reason you guys have for multiverse arceus is about the same creditability for multiverse god of war which would be next to none at all

 

[Darth Nihilus]

 

[DarkestGlory]

Pokémon in-verse scaling is fiction, sure, but to be fair Arceus and the creation trio are just avatars so factoring that in would explain the anti feats.

Also, the one thing Pokémon is consistent in is PIS.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Already explained this but as said before

Twice over
dragon ball has feats at a higher tier then that and they are not contradicting

its got low ends like any other series, we dont use those against it here either

where pokemon does not have anything on the lv of literally anything in dbz
There's like 1000 episodes and like 13 movies yet no planet lv feats let alone universe lv stuff


If you think arceus is universe lv cause the pokedex says he created the universe
and that's like your only reason then

not sure why kaguya otstuki aint multiverse lv then she created multiple dimensions and it's not contradictory like how arceus would be


And if your argument as to reply would be well kaguya's feats arent good like arceus's
then literally lol

or if the reply would be well arceus is a god so clearly it's fine for him to be universe lv

Also kaguya is the rabbit goddess so she's also a god so lol at that reason

Any reason that pokemon stans can muster saying their fave is multiverse lv would be equally valid to kaguya yet one is seen as fodder and another as a multiverse lv power
it's just bias and that's it

If arceus creating universe in pokedex is a valid reason for saying he's universe lv despite shit feats
then kaguya creating universe in the guidebook is a valid reason for saying she's universe lv despite shit feats

Im making a comparison
I dont think kaguya is actually universe lv, I just think that if your going to use bloody pokedex to say arceus would be that strong not sure why kaguya cant be of the same tier using the same exact kinda statements

the thing I don’t get here is you are also using pokedex entries to back up your arguments. You used them as proof Giratina=/=Reverse World and picked one that said Arceus made the world instead of the universe. Which is it? Are they valid or not?

I wouldn’t consider myself a pokemon stan, I like the games, don’t care about the anime at all, and never liked the idea of “god pokemon” in general, but that said I decided to look into this as I hadn’t seen the Arceus movie since I was a kid and…

we clearly see the inside of “Arceus’ space” and its full of galaxies, which his waking energy is shooting across.
It is outright stated to have created these spaces and Dialga and Palkia’s spaces

Given the model depicts all these spaces as the same size, you tried to use this to downplay them to earth sized or something but we know the pokemon world is in a standard universe so if anything based in what we see in Arceus’ space it just means these are of similar size. Even if Dialga and Palkia’s spaces are not equivalent to the universe, Arceus space was pretty clearly a universe and his model was slightly smaller than the pokemon world one, so either those are city block sized galaxies or the green orb represents the main universe not the planet

What info?

b, You do for everything like literally
like if you are against universe or multiverse level god of war then your not going to focus on the more higher end feats

and c
it's pokemon

it's going to be impossible for him to know every instance of every scene ever
it's a fairy large series if your not aware

it's not as if it's a four season anime like demon slayer
that is easy to follow

pokemon has tons of different manga,anime,movies and games
it's a giant franchise




the scene of arceus giving a piece of himself would be talking about the legends plate not a full on avatar and if it was then this would be widely available
you think pokemon with it's fairly few feats and even statements to a degree wouldt be clinging onto this and

Not sure this really tracks though, as the Plates don’t seem to exactly originate with Arceus to begin with, and certainly aren’t his actual power in game canon. Theyre originally introduced as items with power if Giants Arceus fought in the distant past sealed into them. I don’t follow anime or manga canon closely, so I have no clue what counts as valid from one to the other though.
EDIT: the plates are part of him but the power in them, at least in DPPT isn’t originally his, but it’s a moor point because of below
Also see
here

Spoiler

the pokedex bit “Part of Arceus: 1” this isnt the Legend Plate

OPM stans
cling to the star destroying thing that garou did

pokemon stans cling to statements
they themselves made up and if they had any real info beyond arceus creating the universe then they would of used cause poke stans are starved for evidence unlike series with actual feats and evidence like dbz

i personally dont really care what the stans are saying or making up I’m just going off what I know of the games and can find on the anime, and the anime gave pretty clear visuals of Arceus’ universe and statements that it created all of those spaces. Is Arceus boundless or whatever the hell? Of course not, but we also have enough statements and on-screen material to prove it really did make the universe.

if they had the proof
they would be posting it not circle jerking saying omfg arceus is boundless and solos fiction then not providing any sources

I mean youve also omitted a few obvious sources while playing it two ways with some of the ones you did use so? It took me about a minute to find the clips from the movie showing his universe and I don’t even watch or care about the anime. You pulled scans and scenes from a variety of sources which means you were already doing the legwork

And not knowledgeable enough on the transformers characters in question to comment
but im doubting they have as much media as pokemon, talking about singularity not tf as a whole because tf as a whole might

not gonna drag this thread off topic with transformers stuff but it relies heavily on reliable statements and background lore with very few onscreen feats. But maybe a more approachable example would be look at how much Darkseid manifestation strength varies despite True Darkseid being some cosmic thing

but to me
I dont buy that the manga's and anime's which are made separately both somehow depict the gen 4 creation trio characters as being kinda weak because they are wrong if most media which is independently created say they arent multiverse busters then maybe the random battle board dudes are just wrong

I also think most authors just don’t care about that stuff and it’s hard to write god characters into an arc with normal people believably. The Avatars explanation Legends Arceus gives kind of lets that be handwaved a bit though


I don’t have anything against you challenging accepted consensus or anything but you either missed some really clear info or were deliberately leaving it out

We accept DBS characters at universal++++ and same with Pokemon here

 

[OtherGalaxy]

also in that reddit link a guy clarifies in the comments the japanese version Arceus does state he is giving a piece of himself to you as well, so they really are avatars

 

[Gordo]

Zeno stomps Arceus

That is absolutely true, don’t know what that Nintendo pfp guy in your screenshot is talking about

 

[Bob74h]

its got low ends like any other series, we dont use those against it here either

My point was more that that they have high ends

whereas pokemon only got low end feats for the most part

You used them as proof Giratina=/=Reverse World

as supporting evidence not as my main reason for my entire stance on why pokemon aint universe or multiverse lv


that's the main difference, im not saying my entire stance is based on the bloody pokedex

we clearly see the inside of “Arceus’ space” and its full of galaxies, which his waking energy is shooting across.
It is outright stated to have created these spaces and Dialga and Palkia’s spaces

Look at the model
in the gif

and you see why that's a flawed judgement
the bottom most structure on the model is earth and it's literally bigger then dialga and palkia's spaces

and if you dont like the model and think it's unreliable then why would the narration by these people be reliable ether

Given the model depicts all these spaces as the same size, you tried to use this to downplay them to earth sized

What clip were you watching?
The spaces are all different sizes in the clip sent

, so either those are city block sized galaxies or the green orb represents the main universe not the planet

It does not say universe tho
they say our world

and world means planet

And given the reverse world or distortion world is a mirror to earth
it's more then likely talking about the planet

certainly aren’t his actual power in game canon. Theyre originally introduced as items with power

So this is not a thing then

The Avatars explanation Legends Arceus gives kind of lets that be handwaved a bit though

I always hear people say but the avatars man
and have not seen any real evidence on anything suggesting

the giratina thing is a lie
I know of that but what's often omitted is that cythia right after says he's lying

I mean youve also omitted a few obvious sources while playing it two ways with some of the ones you did use so?

what do you mean by playing two ways

Also see
here

the file didt load for me

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

It's funny Bob talks about Masterblack and others cherrypicking Pokemon feats... when he does the exact same thing.

Ironic, didn't see someone try and do a Pokemon Deception and do it terribly at that as well.
Word to the wise, Pokemon Legends: Arceus came out and proved that Arceus, Dialga, Palkia and Giranta are avatars and we never see the true deals at all(Especially in HG and SS shows Arceus can literally create any of them through RECREATING THE UNIVERSE BY WORD OF GOD and that was also a piece of the real Arceus)

You use terrible movie parts but did you forget Rayquaza and Deoxy's entire beef is that Rayquaza many, MANY times is used to stop and destroy Planet Raising and Planet Destroying Meteors?
Or the fact that Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno leaving their nests and fighting each other literally endangers the entire Planet? Mewtwo can create a Planet Destroying Storm by just waving his hand around a bit? Groudon and Kyogre doing the same thing by just waking up? Let's not even get into the more recent Legendaries like Eternantus, The Ultra Beasts or Necrozma who are just as dangerous as they are stated?

Like yeah, Pokemon isn't Digimon or Dragonball Super yet but you don't need to fucking lie man.

 

[DarkestGlory]

It’s always funny to see that the best “debunks” people have for Pokémon and God of War are the most pathetic compilations of “anti-feats.” Not even an ATTEMPT to debunk the actual content. Never.

 

[DarkestGlory]

You use terrible movie parts but did you forget Rayquaza and Deoxy's entire beef is that Rayquaza many, MANY times is used to stop and destroy Planet Raising and Planet Destroying Meteors?
Or the fact that Zapdos, Moltres and Articuno leaving their nests and fighting each other literally endangers the entire Planet? Mewtwo can create a Planet Destroying Storm by just waving his hand around a bit? Groudon and Kyogre doing the same thing by just waking up? Let's not even get into the more recent Legendaries like Eternantus, The Ultra Beasts or Necrozma who are just as dangerous as they are stated?

But some normal Pokémon matched them sometimes here and there, (in a verse where there is no such thing as consistency and where PIS is the predominant force of all protagonist feats), therefore they aren’t at the level they are portrayed to be at! Herp Derp!

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

But some normal Pokémon matched them sometimes here and there, (in a verse where there is no such thing as consistency and where PIS is the predominant force of all protagonist feats), therefore they aren’t at the level they are portrayed to be at! Herp Derp!

It's funny because we literally see normal Pokemon can be as strong enough to give Legendaries a fight in many parts of the series and the games as well.
It doesn't even work the way Bob wants it to because you can say the same thing for Digimon and we explicitly don't do that either.
Like a Machamp can literally move Mountains and probably punch them to pieces and considering Machokes are seen as the equivalent of people who move shit with hilarious ease, the claim isn't all that wrong to make.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

My point was more that that they have high ends

whereas pokemon only got low end feats for the most part



as supporting evidence not as my main reason for my entire stance on why pokemon aint universe or multiverse lv


that's the main difference, im not saying my entire stance is based on the bloody pokedex


Look at the model
in the gif

and you see why that's a flawed judgement
the bottom most structure on the model is earth and it's literally bigger then dialga and palkia's spaces

and if you dont like the model and think it's unreliable then why would the narration by these people be reliable ether






What clip were you watching?
The spaces are all different sizes in the clip sent

It does not say universe tho
they say our world

and world means planet

And given the reverse world or distortion world is a mirror to earth
it's more then likely talking about the planet

did you watch the clips? we actually see Arceus world and it's a universe full of galaxies, like there's a whole visual including it in the gif I posted, which means the spheres in the model are more likely to represent universes and not planets. At worst it means Arceus Space and the Pokemon sphere were universes.

So this is not a thing then

No it is and I edited my post to reflect that, but you might've quoted me before I did. It's a part of Arceus but also power from Giants it defeated.

I always hear people say but the avatars man
and have not seen any real evidence on anything suggesting

I linked proof but as you said it didn't load I will be quoting it at the end of this post

the giratina thing is a lie
I know of that but what's often omitted is that cythia right after says he's lying

How would Cynthia know this? Fallible character statement from a character who wasn't there when any of these pokemon were doing their thing vs the anime that backed the universe stuff up with visuals and the dex entries supported by that.

what do you mean by playing two ways

dex entries that support your argument are fine but those that don't are omitted or called into question

the file didt load for me

Here is the direct link then idk why it didn't load, I'll also quote it directly


Relevant info

What seals the deal however is the Pokedex task for Arceus. It says "Part of Arceus received : 1". Sure, the text might not be very clear, but the Pokedex helps to clarify : Arceus was indeed talking about its physical form, which is either only a part of it, or something that can be replicated. (maybe much like Dialga, Palkia and Giratina who were also created from Arceus in Sinnoh legends but can be once again born anew in the Sinjoh Event) If Arceus was indeed talking about the Legend Plate, the text would say "Parts of Arceus received : 19", counting the total number of Plates.

Where are you getting the Japanese text from? Are you sure ふんしん is the right word there? Is there kanji instead? I know in the English version Arceus talks in sort of archaic, old-English type of way, so ふんしん may be some archaic word I've never heard of and can't find

But otherwise Arceus is basically saying "I will bless you... I bless you with my <something>..."

Edit: I think the word is probably ぶんしん which can mean part of oneself or other self. So if that's true, Arceus is saying it's giving a part of itself to the player

Upon closer inspection, the word is actually ぶんしん, with the first character being ぶ, not ふ ! You're probably right on the translation !

So yes they are avatars of Arceus. No clue if it's elaborated on for Dialga and Palkia though

 

[Qinglong]

Man really wrote an essay over getting caught in 4k

 

[Paxton]

I still can't get over Gamefreak just casually mentioning "yeah, there were primordial Giants that Arceus fought before creation began and that's where he got the plates from"

like nigga WHAT

 

[OtherGalaxy]

was genuinely surprised they did absolutely nothing with that or his thousand arms in Legends

also sword and shield being all about giants and Eternatus being the “Gigantic Pokemon”…from SPACE

and still no mention, Arceus isn’t even jn those games

 

[Top59]

Arceus maybe not beat Zeno (I would have to recheck all his skills) but he still stomps God of War