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Rank The villains based on their portrayal

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Proto234

Distinguished
Blackbeard has no good guy qualities lol. He is even willing to sacrifce his lieutenants if it allows him to get what he wants.

But that what makes him good villain. He is acting as a pirate should. Pilaging, Ransacking town, being unpredictable all that stuff
 

B Rabbit

Exceptional
V.I.P. Member
I disagree. The convo he had with Luffy and Zoro in Jaya was a great character moment for him.
 

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
Nigga also a TRUE pirate

Fight Kaido for the Poneglyph? Nah

Let other people do the hard work, and then jump them to take the poneglyph? True Thug behavior
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
To be fair, Kabuto was the one who put that Hashirama clone head on Madara’s chest using the same body modifications he did on himself to have clones of the Sound 5 growing out of himself if I recall

The clone attached to him lets him use all of Hashirama’s techniques he otherwise couldnt like Sage Mode and Wood style so this surprisingly was the few times where it wasn’t an ass pull
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
The whole history between Hashirama and Madara is basically Romeo and Juliet

So yeah
 

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
Astaro said:
To be fair, Kabuto was the one who put that Hashirama clone head on Madara’s chest using the same body modifications he did on himself to have clones of the Sound 5 growing out of himself if I recall
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that’s gayer


Astaro said:
The clone attached to him lets him use all of Hashirama’s techniques he otherwise couldnt like Sage Mode and Wood style so this surprisingly was the few times where it wasn’t an ass pull
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How is that not an asspull where you basically transplant some cells and somehow master Sage Mode?

Something Naruto and Jiraiya needed training to do?

And considering someone like Yamato hasn’t displayed it, I can assume even Hashirama needed training for sage mode

This is somehow worse than Uchihas ploping eyes in their sockets like they’re lego pieces
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Because Kabuto’s whole thing.(and Orochimaru’s) was to cheat their way into having and possessing all jutsu through modifying their bodies

Yamato was specifically Orochimaru’s first successful lab rat in implanting bloodline jutsu into others. Forget being a proficient as Hashirama, he’s considered a success for being able to live through the experiments

Kabuto basically perfected this by being able to grow clones and implant them on himself or others to perform whatever jutsu the clone uses from the original
 

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
Except the asspull isn’t that he copied a genetic Kekke Genkai using genes. It’s the fact that he’s copying Jutsu that ISNT Kekke Genkai through genes

You don’t need senju cells to draw Natural energy. Don’t even need to be a wood user. That’s something you learn, not inherent unless you’re part of Jugo’s clan and even then that’s not even technically Sage Mode.

That’s the definition of an asspull. The miracle Hashirama Cells.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
If you already have clones pulling off Kekkai Genkai jutsu, which is still jutsu in the end, why stop there? Make them able to do any of the technqiues of the original
 

Xhominid The Apex

Luminous
V.I.P. Member
Shut up and take my money!
Astaro said:
If you already have clones pulling off Kekkai Genkai jutsu, which is still jutsu in the end, why stop there? Make them able to do any of the technqiues of the original
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Because that's ignoring the precise problem with Madara just suddenly mastering Jutsu and otherwise because "Hashirama Cells".

We know that Sage Mode requires knowing how not only draw in Nature Chakra but how to balance it PERFECTLY so it doesn't fuck you up in the process, yet here is Madara who just knows how to use Sage Mode because? Even if we say that "Kabuto modified Madara with Hashirama Cells"(Which how the hell he did that with an Edo Tensei Corpse?!), that still doesn't explain how Madara can use an ability that he has never used in his lifetime perfectly in one go?

That's one of a myriad of problems with Madara as a whole.
 

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
Astaro said:
If you already have clones pulling off Kekkai Genkai jutsu, which is still jutsu in the end, why stop there? Make them able to do any of the technqiues of the original
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Kekkei Genkai only give you the ability to mould the chakra necessary to create the element or make a specific ability

A “Jutsu” in the same vein as, say, Izanami and Izanagi are supposed to be taught and learned, even though it’s genetically attributed only to the Uchiha. It’s not something you just master because of blood. Even Kekkei Genkai need training. Kabuto knows half the jutsu because Orochimaru literally made it his life mission to document and learn every jutsu and copy handsigns.

It makes no logical sense that something previously established that can be achieved only through training and a specific exception of a Clan, is suddenly asspulled through grafting some cells on a dude who never had any formal training in drawing Natural Energy in his life, just because those same clump of cells belonged to someone who actually trained.

Pein tried the draw the same thing and one of his paths became a statue. But Madara literally just needed to be Frankenstein a lung from his boyfriend, not even Jugo, and suddenly he’s a master despite no prior training? Bull.
 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Because he’s not doing it on his own, Kabuto literally made him a composite of both himself and Hashirama



I.e. whatever Hashirama techniques Madara is doing, it’s actually the clone on him doing it for him. This was established further with Kabuto himself using all the jutsu of the Sound 5 he didn’t know with the clones of them attached to him doing so.

To nip this for good, we clearly see the Hashirama clone is the one making use of Sage Mode.



You guys want to talk ass pull? Because I’m surprised no one’s talking about the time Madara really did the impossible of casting Susano with no freaking eyes.



 

Astaro

Resplendent
V.I.P. Member
Solar Sailor said:
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No I don’t. And to bring up that example of Jiraiya with Itachi’s eyes letting him do every technique day 1 related to Sharingan your saying is what Madara did, think instead Jiraiya having an Itachi clone grafted on to him designed by a scientist to perfectly replicate all the jutsu the original Itachi did to perform on Jiraiya’s behalf instead
 

Solar Sailor

Exceptional
2023 OBD Awards - Best Debater
So a genetic clone that has zero consciousness whatsoever is able to do jutsu that the original Itachi had to train and learn to do instead

Yeah that’s worse. At least with Kabuto and Orochimaru we know that Orochi has been studying the handsigns and memorizing jutsu as his ultimate goal.

A literal brain-dead clone being better at doing a jutsu than the real person who had to work hard to learn it is worse lol.
 
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