Rock Lee (Chunin Exam) vs. Neji (Chunin Exam)

[B Rabbit]

Something I was thinking about when I was reading the series for our OBD thread.

Was Neji really stronger than Rock Lee. Rock Lee never fought Neji with the gates. The feats Neji has at this point vs Naruto aren't superior to Rock Lee. I was just curious what people thought about this.

I am at the Forest of Death, so I could be missing a key feat from Neji.

 

[Adamant soul]

Gai himself straight up states, during the Lee/Gaara fight, that Neji WOULDN'T be able to defend himself against the Hidden Lotus (3 gates+).

So yeah Lee using the Gates would totally hand Neji his ass.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Don't really think he's overcoming Kaiten.

Naruto at this point in Base is already in Lee's weightless speed tier from how he performed against a substantially stronger Gaara.

That said, Lee gets a single solid hit, Neji will drop like a rock. That's all Naruto needed.

 

[B Rabbit]

Gai himself straight up states that Neji WOULDN'T be able to defend himself against the Hidden Lotus (3 gates+).

So yeah Lee using the Gates would totally hand Neji his ass.

I must have missed this, but also I'm not there yet. But good to know. Thank you my brother.

 

[B Rabbit]

Don't really think he's overcoming Kaiten.

Naruto at this point in Base is already in Lee's weightless speed tier from how he performed against a substantially stronger Gaara.

That said, Lee gets a single solid hit, Neji will drop like a rock. That's all Naruto needed.

I'm not there yet in my reading but this is hilarious to remember.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

I'm not there yet in my reading but this is hilarious to remember.

Yeah, at this point he doesn't have a finisher. Just shadow clones, punches, and kicks.

Only landed one punch that wasn't deflected by Kaiten and Neji dropped like a fucking stone. Naruto meanwhile took a full beating from Neji's best and still kept going.

 

[shade0180]

Naruto literally had 1 solid hit on Neji's glass jaw and Neji dropped.

Lee is winning this more times than not as long as he get that solid hit.

:sips:

 

[B Rabbit]

Naruto's basic punches and kicks were strong enough to one shot grown men. Also iirc Naruto use to workout every single day in the morning.

At this point I don't remember if Naruto had any superhuman sttength showings besides the Snake one. I remember Lazy Waka telling me back in the day that majority of Naruto is glass canon.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Naruto literally had 1 solid hit on Neji's glass jaw and Neji dropped.

Lee is winning this more times than not as long as he get that solid hit.

:sips:

Requires he defeats Kaiten, and I'm not sure he can. Naruto only broke even with it in 0 Tails Blue Eyes mode. Base Naruto was sending 1 Tail Gaara flying with a kick as his momentum was fully committed to ending Sakura.

Don't think anything less than 5 Gates is replicating that from what we got to see.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Naruto's basic punches and kicks were strong enough to one shot grown men. Also iirc Naruto use to workout every single day in the morning.

At this point I don't remember if Naruto had any superhuman sttength showings besides the Snake one. I remember Lazy Waka telling me back in the day that majority of Naruto is glass canon.

Before he learned Rasengan? His only means of dealing damage was throwing punches and kicks at a fucker or channeling (his considerable stores of) magic into paper to make it explode.

0 Tail Naruto can physically overpower Orochimaru's massive Snake that does the kind of shit found here. Base Naruto can survive physical strikes from both in the Forest of Death and during the Search for Tsunade. Base Naruto by his fight with Gaara has caught up to and passed the power he had in the Forest of Death (note, the clones he summoned that Sasuke thinks about as an example of his power were summoned long before using Kyuubi's chakra to summon Gamabunta [his other example].

Worth further note is roughly 3 clones were able to restrain Gaara's arm (note both the clones and Gaara's arm are shaking, as if both are straining to resist movement and move) after Naruto chucked them at Gaara as some kind of diversionary body slam

The beating he took from the army of clones (post Will of Fire bullshit) was enough to convince Gaara he was fucked unless he went full Giant Shukaku (while he wasn't recovered from the explosive tag detonating beneath his tail, he does note he's still able to at least defend himself with his sand... which ends up doing fuck all anyway, hence his desperation)

Also, anyone have a fucking clue what happened to the Snake after it broke his leg in the Search for Tsunade Arc? Next we see Naruto is he's unconscious with Tsunade looking on in Horror and the Snake seemingly vanished into thin air. Did he defeat it off panel? Kabuto implies he fought it when he notes Naruto broke his leg in the first place *shrugs*

Kishi has an awful memory as far as I can tell, but its inexcusable to assume he forgot the damn thing in the same chapter he introduced it to the fight

EDIT - More shit from long ago

Neji still seems to consider 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto the strongest fellow he's fought even after downing Curse Mark II Kidomaru (he calls him only the strongest "enemy" he's fought. How he describes Kidomaru is rather a more specific sub-category while 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto's is more broad and thus takes precedence and removes any claim of contradiction. While you could point out to how he was non-specific in an earlier scan here making the claim, the latter one supersedes it as it further clarifies and contextualizes his thoughts).

So you can certainly make the argument for it past a certain threshold *shrugs*

Would mean 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto scales to Choji's feats vs Jirobo I guess given he's the defacto weakest of the Sound 4

 

[Bob74h]

lee said, he was going to beat neji with the eight inner gates technique

Neji is literally sweating, sccared of lee's power

WHEN DID LEE BECOME THIS POWERFU;


even gai thought lee with gates was able to defeat neji

 

[Solar Sailor]

Before he learned Rasengan? His only means of dealing damage was throwing punches and kicks at a fucker or channeling (his considerable stores of) magic into paper to make it explode.

0 Tail Naruto can physically overpower Orochimaru's massive Snake that does the kind of shit found here. Base Naruto can survive physical strikes from both in the Forest of Death and during the Search for Tsunade. Base Naruto by his fight with Gaara has caught up to and passed the power he had in the Forest of Death (note, the clones he summoned that Sasuke thinks about as an example of his power were summoned long before using Kyuubi's chakra to summon Gamabunta [his other example].

Worth further note is roughly 3 clones were able to restrain Gaara's arm (note both the clones and Gaara's arm are shaking, as if both are straining to resist movement and move) after Naruto chucked them at Gaara as some kind of diversionary body slam

The beating he took from the army of clones (post Will of Fire bullshit) was enough to convince Gaara he was fucked unless he went full Giant Shukaku (while he wasn't recovered from the explosive tag detonating beneath his tail, he does note he's still able to at least defend himself with his sand... which ends up doing fuck all anyway, hence his desperation)

Also, anyone have a fucking clue what happened to the Snake after it broke his leg in the Search for Tsunade Arc? Next we see Naruto is he's unconscious with Tsunade looking on in Horror and the Snake seemingly vanished into thin air. Did he defeat it off panel? Kabuto implies he fought it when he notes Naruto broke his leg in the first place *shrugs*

Kishi has an awful memory as far as I can tell, but its inexcusable to assume he forgot the damn thing in the same chapter he introduced it to the fight

EDIT - More shit from long ago

Neji still seems to consider 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto the strongest fellow he's fought even after downing Curse Mark II Kidomaru (he calls him only the strongest "enemy" he's fought. How he describes Kidomaru is rather a more specific sub-category while 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto's is more broad and thus takes precedence and removes any claim of contradiction. While you could point out to how he was non-specific in an earlier scan here making the claim, the latter one supersedes it as it further clarifies and contextualizes his thoughts).

So you can certainly make the argument for it past a certain threshold *shrugs*

Would mean 0 Tail Blue Eyes Naruto scales to Choji's feats vs Jirobo I guess given he's the defacto weakest of the Sound 4

If you could rank the Sound 4, who would you say is the strongest.

For me it’s Kidomaru > Tayuya = Sakon/Ukon > Jirobo

 

[Type-Rey]

Nardo one punched Neji after the latter used pretty much all of his chakra and after he has been shitwhipped into the ground by the impact of his Kaiten and Nardo's fox chakra.

Feel like context is kinda important here and without it, it's underselling Neji's actual durability .

 

[Xhominid The Apex]

Nardo one punched Neji after the latter used pretty much all of his chakra and after he has been shitwhipped into the ground by the impact of his Kaiten and Nardo's fox chakra.

Feel like context is kinda important here and without it, it's underselling Neji's actual durability .

I was waiting for someone to say that lol.
Neji also took attacks straight through him by Kidomaru so to say that Neji "has a glass jaw" is underselling him hardcore.

I do believe Neji would lose to Lee with 3+ Gates but Lee has to do it immediately or Neji is gonna stop him from doing so.

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Nardo one punched Neji after the latter used pretty much all of his chakra and after he has been shitwhipped into the ground by the impact of his Kaiten and Nardo's fox chakra.

Feel like context is kinda important here and without it, it's underselling Neji's actual durability .

Neji doesn't look much better when he hits a chakraless Naruto straight in the chest without so much as cracking a rib if the difference between chakra and no chakra is that substantial. Some bleeding from the mouth is hardly substantial enough to justfiy the drop off you're telling me is occurring here dude.

If you could rank the Sound 4, who would you say is the strongest.

For me it’s Kidomaru > Tayuya = Sakon/Ukon > Jirobo

Kabuto calls Sakon the strongest of the Sound 4, so he's in first. Jirobo's in last. Kidomaru and Tayuyu are probably interchangeable.

 

[Type-Rey]

Neji doesn't look much better when he hits a chakraless Naruto straight in the chest without so much as cracking a rib if the difference between chakra and no chakra is that substantial. Some bleeding from the mouth is hardly substantial enough to justfiy the drop off you're telling me is occurring here dude.

Except it is in Neji's case since it's established prior that he can fucking pass out if he overuses his Kaiten as seen with Tenten.

Like what difference does it make if Neji didn't crack a rib when hitting Naruto ? At that point he thought the fight was pretty much done and he also didn't go into bloodlust mode like he did against Hinata or even against Kidomaru where he basically needed one shot to nearly kill the both of them.

So if you want to tell me that it was the one punch that did him him instead of the cumulative factors of him just running on fumes after overusing his kaiten and getting cratered in the ground after that impact, i'll just call bullshit.

It's also shown that Neji and Lee sparred all the time before the Chunin Exams and he never really did loose against Lee.
So what ? Am i supposed to believe that there was no relative parity between the two and that Neji had mad dodging skills cause he was always one punch away from being knocked out ?

Please.

 

[GregSteve]

Rey you know Neji is too lazy to dodge all Hyuga are

 

[ChaosTheory123]

Except it is in Neji's case since it's established prior that he can fucking pass out if he overuses his Kaiten as seen with Tenten.

Actually don't remember this, but if that's the case that's fair.

Like what difference does it make if Neji didn't crack a rib when hitting Naruto ?

Was more about implying some arbitrary reduction in durability between chakra and without chakra. The lack of something as minor as that would tell me the difference between chakra durability and non-chakra durability is not that substantial. After all, doesn't take that much more force to break bones than to cause some bruising.

So if you want to tell me that it was the one punch that did him him instead of the cumulative factors of him just running on fumes after overusing his kaiten and getting cratered in the ground after that impact, i'll just call bullshit.

I'll give you the Kaiten thing, but lack of chakra (which is what I took you bringing up lack of chakra to highlight) doesn't appear to be some major factor in durability.

Suppose he did make a crater with his own body, but how much of the overall impact he took from 0 Tail Naruto is vague and indeterminate. Looked like it was vaguely a stalemate, but how much of the force was imparted onto Neji?

It's also shown that Neji and Lee sparred all the time before the Chunin Exams and he never really did loose against Lee.
So what ? Am i supposed to believe that there was no relative parity between the two and that Neji had mad dodging skills cause he was always one punch away from being knocked out ?

Dodging? Who's talking about just dodging? Are you implying Lee ever actually landed a clean blow on Neji in those spars? Why would we even assume that? Not even talking endurance here, just a combination of dodging, blocking, and parrying would suffice to keep Lee's attacks from landing. Shit, that Lee was saving the 5th Gate for Neji as a trump card speaks to how outclassed Neji had Lee without the gates at all. It was only the 4th Gate that had Neji even wondering when Lee got so strong, because it was only Lee, as if to imply just how much he looked down on what he knew of Lee up to then.

 

[OrlandoSky]

That said, Lee gets a single solid hit, Neji will drop like a rock. That's all Naruto needed.

That’s because he used up all his chakra and stamina when he fought a Kyuubi amped Naruto, he barely had enough strength left in him to stand.

 

[Uoruk]

Wouldn't Neji be able to just seal Lee's chakra? he wouldn't even be able to use the gates at that point