The Machines (Matrix) vs. The Blue (Blue Gender)
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Are we using all the machines here? I do remember more show up in side material but the ones in the movies are essentially construction workers.
I'm also not sure if we're given a number for them, just that said construction workers numbered over thousands by the time of the movie, but I'm pretty sure they had taken a significant culling from the time of the global war.
I'm also not sure if we're given a number for them, just that said construction workers numbered over thousands by the time of the movie, but I'm pretty sure they had taken a significant culling from the time of the global war.
I don't think the Blue use tech, although there was one that assimilated a space base power grid into himself.
Machines have better range. Blue lack long range artillery as far as I can tell. But I don't like the machine air units we've seen. Those sentinels suck. The Blue units would probably tear them to shreds quickly. On the other hand the machines have those massive tanks and floating artillery platforms which would tear open legions of Blue quickly.
Numbers won't be a problem for either side I think, especially because the Blue can extract energy from inorganic matter so all those machines will be tasty for them. They reproduce fast.
War of attrition and adaptations I think. Both factions are good at that. The Blue may have the advantage there because they change with every fight.
Machines have better range. Blue lack long range artillery as far as I can tell. But I don't like the machine air units we've seen. Those sentinels suck. The Blue units would probably tear them to shreds quickly. On the other hand the machines have those massive tanks and floating artillery platforms which would tear open legions of Blue quickly.
Numbers won't be a problem for either side I think, especially because the Blue can extract energy from inorganic matter so all those machines will be tasty for them. They reproduce fast.
War of attrition and adaptations I think. Both factions are good at that. The Blue may have the advantage there because they change with every fight.
I actually think the machines fair worse in attrition, they don't seem to have restored their number after the war - unless they just gave up doing so? Considering fast reproduction and adaptation, the Blue could intentionally take losses if it means gathering enough material/energy for a greater assault later.
Extremely quickly. Human attacks didn't do anything to their numbers. It helps that they can basically eat anything. They can infest anywhere and turn it into basically a nest mine.
When did the machines not restore their numbers? I'm not sure how good 01's factories are, but since the machines can mine down to the Earth's core their access to raw material seems almost limitless.
I think the Blue should reproduce faster, based on what I know.
When did the machines not restore their numbers? I'm not sure how good 01's factories are, but since the machines can mine down to the Earth's core their access to raw material seems almost limitless.
I think the Blue should reproduce faster, based on what I know.
My memory of Revolutions must be faulty then, since it felt like the machines hadn't gone back to full strength, but it's also just as likely they simply didn't have time to bring their full forces to bear (and or studio laziness but didn't really want to get into that). Haven't gotten around to Resurrection if that cleared anything up on their production.
Or maybe they just weren't at war posture anymore because the humans were defeated.
But even during the war the only close air support units I saw were those sentinels, which suck. The Blue will kill those things fast. Machine artillery vs. Blue air is the big dynamic.
I would imagine both sides could adapt quickly and produce better units for their weaknesses. Depends on if we allow that kind of speculation.
But even during the war the only close air support units I saw were those sentinels, which suck. The Blue will kill those things fast. Machine artillery vs. Blue air is the big dynamic.
I would imagine both sides could adapt quickly and produce better units for their weaknesses. Depends on if we allow that kind of speculation.
All right, after rewatching the Second Renaissance part II (With some helpful commentary), it seems the Sentinels really are unfortunately their major air force, so they actually did replenish their numbers after the war - and consequently, reinforces in my mind their ranged game is actually quite poor. The pyramids were likely reconfigured for usage as holding tanks for the humans since they're already using them as a power source.
if the Blue can mass produce more like the Ultimate Blue in a timely manner, and if possible add on more ranged options it would definitely help them out here - although Ultimate Blue alone in mass quantities would be a problem in its own right
EDIT: The Machine's Armada ships are actually still around by Revolutions, but the Machines use them in a almost completely defensive stance only. The also have both speed and maximum height issues, which is probably why they're only for defense.
if the Blue can mass produce more like the Ultimate Blue in a timely manner, and if possible add on more ranged options it would definitely help them out here - although Ultimate Blue alone in mass quantities would be a problem in its own right
EDIT: The Machine's Armada ships are actually still around by Revolutions, but the Machines use them in a almost completely defensive stance only. The also have both speed and maximum height issues, which is probably why they're only for defense.
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The pyramid artillery and those giant walking tanks are probably the machines' best units. But that artillery would be vulnerable without close air support. The Blue would take horrendous casualties on the ground but keep coming unless the machines can produce something more to wipe them out faster. Wave on wave of Blue would do a number on their ground forces, especially if the Blue can saturate some units with Ultimate Blue supporters.
Blue can reproduce fast and get energy from anything. Machines will serve as food and sustenance for them to advance and produce more. So Dark Storm will be no problem for the Blue unlike how it was with the humans (seriously that might have been the most idiotic idea in any war scenario).
I think I'm leaning to the Blue on this one, if we're talking about only known feats and we leave little speculation for adaptation. I may have to look at that episode with the alien spacecraft.
The machines may be able to survive and produce new units of sorts underwater though. We know the Blue can't swim. Ironically the Blue might drive the machines under the sea just like the machines drove humans underground. Perhaps you argue the Blue eventually disappear and the machines can come back but I think that counts as a Blue victory in a war.
Blue can reproduce fast and get energy from anything. Machines will serve as food and sustenance for them to advance and produce more. So Dark Storm will be no problem for the Blue unlike how it was with the humans (seriously that might have been the most idiotic idea in any war scenario).
I think I'm leaning to the Blue on this one, if we're talking about only known feats and we leave little speculation for adaptation. I may have to look at that episode with the alien spacecraft.
The machines may be able to survive and produce new units of sorts underwater though. We know the Blue can't swim. Ironically the Blue might drive the machines under the sea just like the machines drove humans underground. Perhaps you argue the Blue eventually disappear and the machines can come back but I think that counts as a Blue victory in a war.
There is one thing I may be overlooking. I forgot the sentinels could throw these tow bombs at medium range.
matrix.fandom.com
These would be more effective at destroying some Blue air units, provided they can lock on to organics which I'm not sure of. However, once they're out of them and the Blue keep coming, then what? How many can one sentinel carry and how many Blue can a tow bomb-armed sentinel take out in a ratio? And as noted, the Blue don't have a low operational ceiling. If Dark Storm is in effect, the Blue can just fly over it and get the drop on the machines.
The Blue's lack of long range is the biggest problem for them here. Ultimately I still think it pans out as I proposed in the above post though. Lean Blue.
Tow Bomb
Tow Bombs were small but powerful explosive machines resembling small insect bodies and sporting a tentacled mouth at one end. They functioned as homing missiles and were launched by other machines, such as Sentinels or the Armada. They had the capability to track their targets, following it and...
matrix.fandom.com These would be more effective at destroying some Blue air units, provided they can lock on to organics which I'm not sure of. However, once they're out of them and the Blue keep coming, then what? How many can one sentinel carry and how many Blue can a tow bomb-armed sentinel take out in a ratio? And as noted, the Blue don't have a low operational ceiling. If Dark Storm is in effect, the Blue can just fly over it and get the drop on the machines.
The Blue's lack of long range is the biggest problem for them here. Ultimately I still think it pans out as I proposed in the above post though. Lean Blue.
I actually did remember the tow bombs after going through some commentary, but you already mentioned their problems - they're essentially one time use bombs unable to go into extreme long range. I'm not sure exactly how many a sentinel can carry, but judging from the tow bomb size it's probably not more than single digits (they're actually quite big compared to the Sentinel). The Armada Ships seemingly carry hundreds or more of them though.
The previous post does present the hilarious outcome of the machines retreating to water with the Blue taking the land, but seems to imply the Blue will effectively "vanish" if their purpose is complete.
The previous post does present the hilarious outcome of the machines retreating to water with the Blue taking the land, but seems to imply the Blue will effectively "vanish" if their purpose is complete.
Their purpose would be to restore balance to the world so I guess they wouldn't vanish until the machines no longer wield hegemonic power.
Are the armada ships only defensive? Those look like defensive gun emplacements. If they can be deployed at scale (I assume they can) that might change the equation, but the problem of air support and flight ceiling remains. I'm not even sure those tow bombs are powerful enough to take out the best Blue in one shot, either, at least not the huge tank type blue and the Ultimate Blue.
But the Blue's lack of long range firepower could hurt them a lot against those, on top of the pyramid artillery and walkers.
Are the armada ships only defensive? Those look like defensive gun emplacements. If they can be deployed at scale (I assume they can) that might change the equation, but the problem of air support and flight ceiling remains. I'm not even sure those tow bombs are powerful enough to take out the best Blue in one shot, either, at least not the huge tank type blue and the Ultimate Blue.
But the Blue's lack of long range firepower could hurt them a lot against those, on top of the pyramid artillery and walkers.
I'll hand it to the Machines... primarily because I have no clue what the Blue can do.
Basically, the Blue have adaptive evolution. They change whenever they're attacked. They come in armadas. They reproduce constantly. They can eat anything and get energy that way, so Dark Storm is no problem and the machines would be a veritable feast. Like the machines, they killed most of humanity and drove them off the planet's surface (though the humans retreated to space in this series).
The Blue's weakness here would be lack of long range artillery units. Their preferred tactic is to just swarm with armored ground and air units. The machines are particularly vulnerable from the air since they have a low flight ceiling (provided Dark Storm is in effect). The longest range unit I know is that huge green thing that can shoot acid at medium range.
In Revolutions Trinity and Neo actually go over the Armada ships while breaking the Stormcloud limit when attempting to enter the Machine City - at least, that's what I'm assuming is the armada ships since the outer shell is different, but they still appear to be "floating" off the ground like the originals where in Second Renaissance. Lighting is abit poor but I'm fairly confident in this. They don't seem to have been used during the final stages of the war (the Machines used the pyramid platform ships and "Harvester" machines instead) so my conclusion was they were simply never moved.
They indeed look like they're defensive emplacements, more like batteries than ships. I assume that the machines can make them move if they wanted to without much trouble, but the cloud cover problem remains. The Blue can just fly over their effective range and dive on them. I'd be surprised if sentinels can carry more than one tow bomb as well, judging by its size.
In an alternate universe without the cloud cover they'd be more of a problem but the Blue should keep coming and I totally forgot about that underground massive grey unit that can get the jump on them from below. Sentinels can drill underground but I don't think it would be fast enough.
In an alternate universe without the cloud cover they'd be more of a problem but the Blue should keep coming and I totally forgot about that underground massive grey unit that can get the jump on them from below. Sentinels can drill underground but I don't think it would be fast enough.
Just to be sure, these in Revolutions? Is what I'm referring to, they are what I assume are the Armada ships from the renaissance, they are still posted very close to the Machine City and still appear to be hovering off the ground
EDIT: Holographic image of them in formation:
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Yeah, they moved. They don't seem like they'd be able to move quickly though.
They're big though. Not easy for the aerial blue to attack even if they can dive. They're going to cause huge casualties, especially on the ground units, which I never doubted. A coordinated air/ground/underground assault from the Blue would be the best bet, but the question is how fast the machines can get them into the field?
The Blue should let them waste their shots on the low quality ones and then send the Ultimate Blue and the underground Blue behind those units.
They're big though. Not easy for the aerial blue to attack even if they can dive. They're going to cause huge casualties, especially on the ground units, which I never doubted. A coordinated air/ground/underground assault from the Blue would be the best bet, but the question is how fast the machines can get them into the field?
The Blue should let them waste their shots on the low quality ones and then send the Ultimate Blue and the underground Blue behind those units.