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To Aru Majutsu No Index Feats/Discussion/Analysis Thread - One Othinus To Rule Them All

But but Muh Four Worlds Hierarchy and Muh TRUE experts of Magic

Imagine glazing up niggas that get called out in-series for being frauds that play dress-up pretend to borrow the power of gods specifically because they couldn’t get that strong on their own merit

Against mages that trained themselves up all on their own to become among the very gods Fraudscendents rely on.
 
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I'm definitely disappointed Alice and Nepthys did not start throwing galaxies at each other, lol

Then again, Alice was actively protecting Academy City and holding back by not just reality wrapping the entire universe, which narration mentions she certainly would have had she been fighting alone.

But hey, Coronzon is back- maybe we might get other characters scaling to the Flaming Sword in the next volume. Touma remembering the words of his old self and declaring that he'd be challenging God himself was iconic too! Favourite part of the volume
Muh TRUE experts of Magic
The true experts were Kingsford and CRC, all along. Their knowledge was something even Magic Gods said they wanted.
 
The legend himself.

Now, since I'm reading GT-12 I might as well compile whatever feats and infodumps I could find in the volume as @Mr.OMG had done all the way upto NT in his respect thread. So here it is-

Academy City has clone technology and advanced means of giving movement to a corpse-

Accelerator can communicate over long distances by creating artificial rain and superimposing his voice onto the vibrations of the raindrops-

Accelerator can control the entire world's weather and environment-

Crowley can gather the power of Coronzon in his hands as black flames appearing with so much force that they would have engulfed the world had they not been concentrated in his palms..

Mere guns, even heavier calibre are laughable against Crowley-

Crowley intercepted a supersonic tank projectile with a roar that crushed the tank and ground beneath it in a great circle-

Accelerator can control the atmosphere and creating lightning across multiple train stations away using indirect vector control by manipulating the wiring and pipes beneath Academy City-

Accelerator can produce a billion volts of electricity and create plasma anywhere around the world using his weather control-

Alice had known Touma would die before they even met-

People killed by Alice cannot return, no matter what. Even her own power that can twist the world cannot do that-

Nerfed Magic Gods use an invisible attack, that even Alice with all her powers couldn't detect. This is something even Transcendents like Aradia or the Bologna Succubus cannot do. Nephtys demonstrates this by blowing on her hair-


Magic Gods mention how Touma has become more like them after returning back from dead-

Nephthys and Niang-Niang are stated to be Magic Gods on par with Othinus-

It's mentioned that Magic Gods like to wander on a whim, that they can't remain in a single place for long- be that a world or a phase. This is further evidence that Phases are actual places rather than filters-

Magic Gods mention how normal humans are powerless before them, including the Transcendents-

Even Touma does not know who would win between Alice and the Magic Gods-

Every magician has chosen their path and power to resist their powerlessness, but Alice is different. She is the one with talent-

Transcendents and Magic Gods are fundamentally different, one aspire to be an existing god but the other has worked to reach that position on their own. Nepthys thinks Magic Gods are superior, whereas Alice disagrees-

Nepthys turns her shoulder into dust and makes it into an invisible whip that cause Touma to freeze up despite IB negating it due to shock-

Alice creates card soldiers that repaint the space around her, anything that her paint touches becomes part of Alice's forces including the attack of a Magic God that would have obliterated Academy City. She's actively holding back here, otherwise she would have just reality wrapped the entire world-


The clash between fundamentally different powers of Magic Gods cause Alice to strain due to creation of special rules of power interaction between a god and a transcendent-

Nepthys can change the shape of her own body to evade attacks-

Alice ran down a hallway, broke into the floor, got to the window and caught Touma before he could fall down a single floor-

Nepthys can use her tears and launch them as light-speed projectile, which Touma negated-

Magic Gods have obtained wisdom and knowledge by experiencing the state of death-

Alice threw Touma several floors above before he could even react, and made him land without damage-

Stiyl's flames burn at more than three thousand degrees-

Any magician can fly, and the reason they don't is because of the Interception Spell. Stiyl creates boosters of fire to achieve that-

Stiyl dodges lightning at the last second, a feat of speed that even Touma admired-

Stiyl intercept Touma's bullets using his flames-

Stiyl stole the lifeforce of a Magic God by using the principles of Thelema using the principle that people can draw power from an object of greater purity and precision from the outside. The spell is called Crossroad, derived from the Divine Mixtures-

The heat produced by Stiyl melted steel pipes from a distance-

The words spoken by Touma when defeating Stiyl, challenging God himself. They seemed to come from his old memory, perhaps a hint to his past or a foreshadowing of the future-

Aleister Crowley defeated Vidharti, a Transcendant who could control fate and erase existence of others-

Crowley deflected a lightning strike-

Coronzon regained her body the moment Crowley lost his will because of Kingsford's death, he had just hijacked her body after death-

That's all for this time, another awesome volume by Kamachi.
oh that's neat

Aleiszon using pure elements
 
and an actual statement that Othinus/Aleister nerfed MGs are at the same level of strength is nice too (even though it's kind of obvious)
 
But but Muh Four Worlds Hierarchy and Muh TRUE experts of Magic

Imagine glazing up niggas that get called out in-series for being frauds that play dress-up pretend to borrow the power of gods specifically because they couldn’t get that strong on their own merit

Against mages that trained themselves up all on their own to become they very gods Fraudscendents rely on.
normal Transcendents = / = Kingsford & CRC or Anna Sprengel/Alice

don't get it twisted

MGs also aren't the actual phase beings Transcendents like H.T. draw upon the power of, either
 
This does leave us in an awkward spot where we have to redraw the scaling chain again.

DK Touma=CRC=Kingsford>Alice=Magic Gods>Crowley>Transcendents. For now that seems to be right, is that correct? But where does Coronzon and Phasic Beings fit into the scale, above CRC or below?

Also, do I have to put a spoiler warning in my post? Or should I leave it be?
 
This does leave us in an awkward spot where we have to redraw the scaling chain again.

DK Touma=CRC=Kingsford>Alice=Magic Gods>Crowley>Transcendents. For now that seems to be right, is that correct? But where does Coronzon and Phasic Beings fit into the scale, above CRC or below?

Also, do I have to put a spoiler warning in my post? Or should I leave it be?
did you forget to put Anna Sprengel here or

to answer your question I have no idea (Anna Sprengel should be put on the same general tier as Alice/CRC/Kingsford/DK Touma, with all of them being > MGs)

@Churronzon
 
normal Transcendents = / = Kingsford & CRC or Anna Sprengel/Alice

don't get it twisted

MGs also aren't the actual phase beings Transcendents like H.T. draw upon the power of, either
CRC, Anna, and Kingsford sure but I don’t see them being outright superior with Alice struggling against infinitely nerfed Magic Gods

Which coincidentally matched with how GT10 wrote Alice’s reality warping as comparable to Othinus too

The whole shit about even regular Transcendents beating even Othinus, let alone other Magic Gods, just got buried for good with this volume
 
CRC, Anna, and Kingsford sure but I don’t see them being outright superior with Alice struggling against infinitely nerfed Magic Gods

Which coincidentally matched with how GT10 wrote Alice’s reality warping as comparable to Othinus too

The whole shit about even regular Transcendents beating even Othinus, let alone other Magic Gods, just got buried for good with this volume
am I stupid or am I not understanding how this is the case

them managing to "blitz" Alice with an attack who is severely holding back and trying to not to kill them and.. blatant shit talking

is that it
 
GT10 doesn't even say Othinus and Alice are literally equal (narratively they 100% are not)

just that Alice's power affects the world to the same extent

the same volume also says that inner Alice would instantly defeat a god and they wouldn't even notice it happening
 
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wait actually that's a good point now that I think about it

are they even fighting inner Alice in GT12?
 
did you forget to put Anna Sprengel here or
Anna should be about equal to or just below Alice, right? But she feels so underwhelming in comparison lol, I don't know where to place her here.

Also, it's interesting that the powers of Alice and the Magic Gods clashing created special rules that made it hard for them to use their powers due to their clashing nature.

Moreover, I nearly overlooked that Stiyl also took down two Nerfed Magic Gods on his own with prep, granted he basically did what Crowley had already done and hijacked their powers- mfs did not learn the lesson, fell to the same trick twice. But this goes on to show how even normal humans with right prep and knowledge can create spells and ceremonies vastly above their punching class.

Like Index and Birdway creating Gungnir Replica or Touma's dad accidently creating Angel Fall which changed the entire Sephiroth....
are they even fighting inner Alice in GT12?
No, she went back to her child self once she reunited with Touma
 
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am I stupid
:maybe

Any argument of her holding back goes out the window when her opponents are holding back by default infinitely and still not going out with what they have because we know how destructive nerfed Magic Gods get in World Rejector’s timeline when they don’t care for collateral
 
:maybe

Any argument of her holding back goes out the window when her opponents are holding back by default infinitely and still not going out with what they have because we know how destructive nerfed Magic Gods get in World Rejector’s timeline when they don’t care for collateral
so both parties are holding back on top of being nerfed (Aleister's nerf + Alice not using her inner form)

mf this is UNQUANTIFIABLE THEN
 
Alice was holding back and the Magic Gods were nerfed. Even Touma and the narration seemed to mention how they had no idea who would win this fight, I'd just put MG and Alice on the same level for now and leave it at that.

MG are definitely superior to normal Transcendants tho, freaking Alice found it hard to use her powers against them.
 
Anna should be about equal to or just below Alice, right? But she feels so underwhelming in comparison lol, I don't know where to place here.

Also, it's interesting that the powers of Alice and the Magic Gods clashing created special rules that made it hard for them to use their powers due to their clashing nature.

Moreover, I nearly overlooked that Stiyl also took down two Nerfed Magic Gods on his own with prep, granted he basically did what Crowley had already done and hijacked their powers- mf did not learn the lesson. But this goes on to show how even normal humans with right prep and knowledge can create spells and ceremonies vastly above their punching class.

Like Index and Birdway creating Gungnir Replica or Touma's dad accidently creating Angel Fall which changed the entire Sephiroth....

No, she went back to her child self once she reunited with Touma
more or less, probably

she did block the tailwind from a serious Alice in GT10(GT11?) iirc

to repost the same two quotes from GT4 (although these aren't the only ones glazing Anna Sprengel tbf, NT22, NT22R, and GT1 has quotes too)

The Rosicrucian magic cabal had hidden in the shadows of history. No one knew what exactly R&C Occultics was, even as it chose to unilaterally influence the entire world. And it was all controlled by Anna Sprengel, who stepped on Secret Chief Aiwass and selfishly wielded power greater than a god.

“Didn’t you find it odd?” asked Othinus. “Anna Sprengel holds a position similar to a priestess, but she actually has complete control of a superior being like Aiwass and has become a legendary magician greater even than a Magic God. Yet she always travels on foot and directly appears before her enemies. Why? Sure, you can say she does it for fun or on a whim since she’s the strongest, but I see a simpler theory.”

wields power greater than a god + is called a legendary magician greater than even a Magic God (by a Magic God themselves)
 
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GT10 doesn't even say Othinus and Alice are literally equal

just that Alice's power affects the world to the same extent

the same volume also says that inner Alice would instantly defeat a god and they wouldn't even notice it happening
For example, his right hand hadn’t been able to destroy the infinite worlds created by Othinus. Alice could absorb the world to that extent
Page 80 of GT10.



Even if she was up against a being known as a god or a demon, or a human who had trained themselves up to the point that everyone would see them as such a thing, this version of Alice would likely crush them underfoot without them even realizing they had been killed.
Page 186 of GT10.
 
Anna should be about equal to or just below Alice, right? But she feels so underwhelming in comparison lol, I don't know where to place her here.

Also, it's interesting that the powers of Alice and the Magic Gods clashing created special rules that made it hard for them to use their powers due to their clashing nature.

Moreover, I nearly overlooked that Stiyl also took down two Nerfed Magic Gods on his own with prep, granted he basically did what Crowley had already done and hijacked their powers- mf did not learn the lesson. But this goes on to show how even normal humans with right prep and knowledge can create spells and ceremonies vastly above their punching class.

Like Index and Birdway creating Gungnir Replica or Touma's dad accidently creating Angel Fall which changed the entire Sephiroth....

No, she went back to her child self once she reunited with Touma
honestly this makes Kingsford/CRC even more impressive in retrospect

since Aleister, even with his new recent buffs watched them fight and was like "yeah nah even with subterfuge and trickery I can't do jackshit to them"
 
But GT12 contradicts Alice being able to instantly crush a Magic God before they even realize it. Even nerfed ones basically stalemated her so those statements were probably hype or talking about Phasic Gods weaker than TMG. @Paxton

I guess we'd find out where exactly Coronzon scales in the next volume. She and Alice are definitely gonna have a fight I think. Plus, what happened with Othinus and Index is also in question since they don't know about Touma's rebirth and left to follow some mysterious message.

Crowley breaking down when learning Kingsford was not resurrected and making Touma realise how he's overlooking her sacrifice, only to be taken over by Coronzon was also a peak moment. Kingsford only appeared for a few volumes, but she's quickly become one of my favourite female characters alongside Othinus and Misaki.
 
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