Transformers feats/discussion

[DarkestGlory]

I’ll give the book a read myself then, see if I understand better. The link looked kinda sketchy when I opened it, but it is what it is.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

it’s tfwiki’s official mega.nz link
they use it to preserve everything that has been out of print and inaccessible

they used to use google drive but at some point switched to Mega, i’ve downloaded tons of comics and stories off there and none of it’s been sketchy thus far

 

[DarkestGlory]

Thanks, I’ll probably read it today. Though I think you got most of the relevant information haha

 

[OtherGalaxy]

http://redalert.la.coocan.jp/DB/BM/TFBM01.html

Obviously don't take this too seriously, but I think it's funny and worth noting that Takara once ran a promotion where the lore involved the real world and a character "Dimicron Prime" who was allegedly representative of Takara itself and "resides within every Transformer"

Officially this universe is classified as an Uniend universe (Aligned/Prime continuity) but given the real world is just considered one of many clusters uh....

A commander who has protected the children of Japan since ancient times.
He fell asleep for a long time, but he sensed the crisis in Japan and revived.
All Transformers have his spark.

this is also how I learned Takara's mascot used to just be...blackface

Transformers' history is so exceedingly cursed

 

[DarkestGlory]

Has there ever been examples of metafictional shit or plot manipulation in TRF? Idk, just seems like something the verse would have. If I’m not wrong, unicron once threatened Simon, but I’m not sure.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

sort of, it’s usually played off as a gag but the way transformers works it is still canon (and there’s even lore addressing some of it in AVP)

Transformers feats/discussion

Omega Lock stuff, sort of ties into what I've been arguing that Galaxy Force Primus should be at least universal from closing the singularity from Ask Vector Prime - Echoes and Fragments Sideways smirked. "I admit nothing," but the tension was broken. The two pulled up stools and began to talk...

onelastforum.com

I have a post on some of them here, again they’re mostly used as gags but TF treats the real world as a universal cluster and describes how exactly characters can cross over to it (like when Grimlock and Soundwave were going into Marvel offices)

also the Titan Comics at the time I posted this were lost media so I don’t have the scan of Bayscream kidnapping his authors, it’s been scanned now though so I’ll have to go through them once I have time to dig into the expanded Bayformers comics and such

if you mean metafictional in terms of SCP or DC style narrative layers I can’t think of anything like that. The Kabbalah stuff is the closest. Other than that is maybe Go Nagai existing in the TF world and sending them to Mazinger’s setting. But it’s usually played off in TF as either a joke or a result of the real world already being a part of TF

 

[B Rabbit]

I saw the new Beast Wars movie.

Now.... I know nothing about Transformers.

But how good is Prime really? He really the strongest Autobot? He didn't seem like he was all that much stronger than the Villain.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

I saw the new Beast Wars movie.

Now.... I know nothing about Transformers.

But how good is Prime really? He really the strongest Autobot? He didn't seem like he was all that much stronger than the Villain.

it depends on the series really
g1 cartoon: strong, roughly equal with Megatron to maybe a little stronger, but much weaker than the Dinobots or combiners
unicron trilogy: iirc he’s again close to Megatron but I want to say by the end of Cybertron/Galaxy Force he was actually slightly weaker hence stuff like using Vector’s sword against him
He’s way weaker than Megatron is in Animated, and pretty even in Prime iirc. Have not seen the newer cartoons yet, don’t know when/if I ever will get the chance.

bay movies: got the brakes beat off him by movie 1 Megatron and 3 Sentinel, but manhandled The Fallen and movie 2 (weaker I guess?) Megatron, is relatively even with Lockdown they both have wins and losses against each other. Seems like TLK Megatron might be stronger than him again but they interact so briefly who can say

still have yet to read marvel or dreamwave runs
he’s pretty even with Megatron in the idw comics, though Megatron had specific bodies or upgrades that let him edge out. However in this continuity there are others like Phase Sixers who drastically overpower Optimus, Megatron, and thousands comparable to them at the same damn time.
TF vs GI Joe he lost to Megatron once, gets cheap shotted round two, knocks him into the sun in round 3. Titans (city sized transformers) were still allegedly better than any of them though


he is almost never the strongest autobot, but he’s stronger than most and supposed to be the best leader+bearing a holy relic with the essence of robot God in it helps

 

[OtherGalaxy]

saw Rise of the Beasts, despite being a Bayformers Apostle I actually liked it a lot

Spoiler

Unicron basically tanks a supernova at the end apparently, and Primal drops the “Unicron will always be alive as long as evil exists” line from Balancing Act so that was sick. Seeing a character as obscure as Apelinq in it was nice too

 

[DarkestGlory]

It was far from a cinematic masterpiece, but I definitely enjoyed it a lot. Hearing Primal say “Maximize” and Prime and Primal say “Roll out” together gave me goosebumps. The protagonist was actually really good this time, Noah at least. Alena was aight. Noah’s bro was better character than her tbh.

 

[Paxton]

so the beasts really did rise after all?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

It was far from a cinematic masterpiece, but I definitely enjoyed it a lot. Hearing Primal say “Maximize” and Prime and Primal say “Roll out” together gave me goosebumps. The protagonist was actually really good this time, Noah at least. Alena was aight. Noah’s bro was better character than her tbh.

im ngl I was about to cry every time Optimus did basically anything, he’s so fucking cool Final lines against Scourge were so fire. Which is not normal behavior but I’m not a normal person so whatever

Noah is easily the best human in any of the movies and honestly? just a good and fun character to watch regardless. Funny as hell too which I didn’t expect. I had heard Elena was kind of useless, and I do think she could have been worked into the second half of the movie better but she was still ok. Worst thing to me was the costume team keeping her hair perfectly manicured despite being in the middle of a jungle war lol. Bay had his actors getting grimy as fuck you really need that to sell it

Primal was awesome, Apelinq was a cool inclusion, I think this movie is the perfect middle ground for Bay haters and lovers. They just need to tighten the writing snd choreography in the last 3rd next go. It’s funny how it’s a fairly colorful movie but the ending still had some modern blockbuster gray wasteland syndrome to it. Still better looking than most mcu but that’s not saying much

so the beasts really did rise after all?

they did indeed

 

[Claudio Swiss]

 

[OtherGalaxy]

bit feats and random information as I go through a few more random books/comics/etc

“Had I been able to spend enough time with Optimus before he left our battered planet in search of the AllSpark, I might have had the chance to tell him that … to explain to him what the gladiator who once called himself Megatronus knows intuitively, that an infinite universe contains infinite opponents by definition.”

Transformers Retribution p. 8

Another direct confirmation that universes in transformers are infinite in size. I'm still shocked this is maybe the only thing in history TF has never contradicted itself on from what I've seen. Every time the universe is given a scale, it's always infinite.


More significant, there was a very recent interview with Bob Skir regarding Singularity Ablyss (the Kabbalah story)

He notes that Megatron "saw the face of God" here and was in contact with infinity. Just more confirmation that Primus is the GodHead, although we didn't really need any more, it's great insight from the writer himself.

Some perspectives from Beast Machines dvd commentary from Bob Skir and Steve Gerber

• Skir’s view on religion is that all our souls are pieces of God which leave, have experiences, and then return to God; thus making God/the universe richer. This is reflected in the Sparks’ relationship to The Matrix
• He also considers Beast Machines to have Kabbalah elements as well
• Steve considers it more along the line of Carl Sagan, that the universe began as a cosmic soup which grew into complex states of matter which eventually grow consciousnesses; thus the universe begins to understand itself. And then the Matrix comes to understand itself…

Summaries taken from here, apparently the Kabbalah influence within Beast Machines actually predates Skir writing Singularity Ablyss
Also apparently Hasbro was actually the one pushing for heavy spiritual elements in the show. I miss when they were that ambitious with their storytelling directives. Things have been a bit dry in recent years.


I've been going through Regeneration One a little, very cool comic. There's a point where they mention a universe has infinite pasts and infinite futures, so that's neat.


I also was misreading this AVP quote I used to support the cosmology size in the OP, it isn't infinite possibilities for branch universes to exist in, it's an uncountable infinity of them, so actually larger than what is your default Aleph Null infinite set as I understand it.

Interestingly, though there are an uncountable infinity of modalities for these universes to exist in, they tend to unerringly snap into one of twelve stable quantum-hyperwave endstates.

And while I've never addressed this, I don't think the 'tend to snap into one of twelve states" is significant or shoots this down, because we already know from TFCC that all possible versions of a universe are supposed to exist, IDW showed one universe spawning infinite more, FtF "this world, its countless timelines" etc. It's reiterated so many times at this point.

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Been going through all the early 2000s era Botcon material, because I just miss that era a lot, and while there wasn't anything particularly notable powerwise, I ended up skimming Universe again and caught something I missed.

Spoiler

We have (a version of) Obsidian talk about "Worlds within worlds. Infinite possibilities." here. This is kind of unusual terminology for transformers; given this is the comic/script where the 'countless dimensions, myriad realities' thing happens, you could use it to make some kind of case for that I guess. He does talk about being from a timeline where he killed Silverbolt and such, it's just weird to me he specifically says "Worlds within worlds"

Anyhow, I think I have read every out of print comic unless something else pops up. I'm just stalling actually diving into Marvel G1 and Dreamwave as it is because I feel like I need to be more 'focused' for that lol compared to assorted mini-series. Still need to go through all the TFCC Prose but I'm a very slow reader when there aren't pictures, so that will happen whenever.

At some point, I will get all the information together and make the OP of this thread a comprehensive view of the entire cosmology and scaling, and I want to do some other stuff that might be useful like a full on breakdown of why IDW only has two universal characters despite large swathes of the internet thinking otherwise.

 

[Paxton]

megaversal+ obsidian

 

[OtherGalaxy]

he is actually pretty much just some guy Unicron made round up people to fight to the death

 

[OtherGalaxy]

Turns out I didn't read the Universe Wreckers Finale...whoops
http://transformersclub.com/prose/Wreckers_Finale.pdf
Some things of note in it

He had become a god. With the ancient artifactcalled the Divine Light implanted in his spark chamber,Cryotek had tapped into the core of the planet Cybertronand pulled from it the power of their maker, Primus.The power of creation itself, and conceivably eventhe power to twist the fabric of reality, to warp timeand space itself to his will. The surge had mutated hisalready-impressive exostructure, transforming him intoa giant even compared to the Autobots and Decepticonsof old.

A little bit of Primus' power channeled through the Divine Light into Cryotek, apparently will let him warp reality and time and space. So he claims.
Very cool story and arc but there aren't many actual feats despite the cosmic stakes, something interesting here though

Nothingness.
In the absolute nothingness Cryotek turned slowly. In the distance, though it was impossible to tell exactly how far, he saw Al-Badur floating, motionless, a look of abject horror cemented across his face. He reached out to the Quintesson… and after an eternity, his dragonhead arm connected. There was no sound as Al-Badur disintegrated, leaving a cloud of dust motes quickly fanning and spreading into imperceptibility across the vast nothingness. Curious. An illusion? No… something told Cryotek that Al-Badur’s being could not be sustained in this void. And that were it not for the fragment of Primus’ power still within him, he would have shared the Quintesson’s fate, his energy and mass dispersed irrevocably as it gave way to entropy.

Primus' power, even a small part, stops you from being immediately obliterated by Unspace's nonexistence. So in a roundabout way I guess this answers whether or not Primus and Unicron can deal with that sort of thing. Note that Transformers, despite using Transwarp/Unspace for much of their spacetime-faring technology, have no idea how it works and rarely even know it exists.

“Windrazor! But how-?!”

The Maximal from the far future, a future that would never be, smiled benignly at Maximus. The reality that Shokaract created was destroyed, and by all rights I should have been as well… but Primus had other plans.You pulling me through the transwarp gate to your own reality enabled him to bring me safely into the Allspark. You may consider me… a spirit guide, in a sense.

“You were sent for me? To assist me?”

I’m afraid not. I am needed… elsewhere, elsewhen. As you are no doubt aware now, there are endless realities in all of existence. Primus watches each, ever vigilant against his brother Unicron. His children are in need. I must go soon to assist other Matrix Templars as Alpha Trion assisted you… but I had to see you one more time, let you know what became of me.

Just another confirmation of there being Endless Realities, but also that Primus is watching all of them. A big part of this story is that Primus draws Unicron to eat a universe like a beacon, so there's an explanation for why he isn't more active in conflicts across the multiverse.

 

[DarkestGlory]

Are there any examples of transcending beings/dimensions/cosmology to the point of them being like fiction, i.e R>F?

 

[OtherGalaxy]

the tree of life is the only example I know of that, as reality is literally described as “a metaphor” and “less real” than it

There is always a chance for there to be others, TF is a big series with a lot of unturned stones, but I haven’t seen it yet